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TRUTHEAR x Crinacle Zero IEM Review

Rate this IEM

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 12 2.5%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 16 3.3%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 61 12.5%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 398 81.7%

  • Total voters
    487

MrBrainwash

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Amir in his reviews give disclaimer that measurements may not reflect performance of the measured headphones. I reported that I found that bass is above harman level on my pair and some other graphs indicate that. I would usually prefer less. But bass here I think is tastefully done.

I was asked what is my reference of neutrality. My stance is that I can't provide one standard, but I can say with more confidence when tunning stray off from neutrality in obvious manner.

I know more about OE targets than IE. I limit my position to the opinion that they need to be different. I see and hear some logic in in IE Harman target tunning but I don't advertise it.
 

vitalii427

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Amir in his reviews give disclaimer that measurements may not reflect performance of the measured headphones. I reported that I found that bass is above harman level on my pair and some other graphs indicate that. I would usually prefer less. But bass here I think is tastefully done.

I was asked what is my reference of neutrality. My stance is that I can't provide one standard, but I can say with more confidence when tunning stray off from neutrality in obvious manner.

I know more about OE targets than IE. I limit my position to the opinion that they need to be different. I see and hear some logic in in IE Harman target tunning but I don't advertise it.
Either from Amir or crinacle measurements is obvious that Zero has less sub-bass (20-50hz) and a bit more at 60-150hz. The bass sounds different when EQ'd to Harman but overall amount is close. So I can't see how you get that Zero has more bass than Harman target.

And if you mention your previous picture from AutoEQ then I say for sure that AutoEQ IE target has less bass than actual Harman IE target.

Though I compared Zero (with & without EQ) vs HD800 EQ'd to Harman - I can say Zero has a bit more impact to my ear (which I like), but it's more like bass perception difference between IEM & open OE headphones
 
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markanini

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What objective analysis do you mean? I see only your subjective opinion and I'm ok with that. For me personally without EQ Zero is the best sounding IEM from what I have. With a bit of EQ it's even better. So it's far from really bad.
It's reasonable to speculate at this point that there is an methodology issue with Harmans IE target specifically that detaches it from normal listening conditions.
 

MrBrainwash

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So I can't see how you get that Zero has more bass than Harman target.
You already answered yourself.
->
Zero has less sub-bass (20-50hz) and a bit more at 60-150hz. The bass sounds different when EQ'd to Harman.

I also have several comparisions other than one I mentioned ealier. It's not only different in character but also perceived amount. Although your impression may differe from my.

overall amount is close.

It's not what I am hearing. I would like to add that it's also depend on shape of the bass curve (and relations to other fr) and not only total amount. If you cut lower fr then higher will be perceived louder. Might be the case here.

Non the less Zero are unusually warmer, punchier, and thicker than standard harman examples at least in my experience.
 

Chromatischism

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What objective analysis do you mean? I see only your subjective opinion and I'm ok with that. For me personally without EQ Zero is the best sounding IEM from what I have. With a bit of EQ it's even better. So it's far from really bad.
You'd have to back up a few pages, but someone compared all the measurements in a database and showed it had a bright tilt.
 

Chromatischism

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Either from Amir or crinacle measurements is obvious that Zero has less sub-bass (20-50hz) and a bit more at 60-150hz. The bass sounds different when EQ'd to Harman but overall amount is close. So I can't see how you get that Zero has more bass than Harman target.

And if you mention your previous picture from AutoEQ then I say for sure that AutoEQ IE target has less bass than actual Harman IE target.

Though I compared Zero (with & without EQ) vs HD800 EQ'd to Harman - I can say Zero has a bit more impact to my ear (which I like), but it's more like bass perception difference between IEM & open OE headphones
I guess I'm not impressed by the bass on the Zeros because 1) it rolls off early, and 2) the treble is so bright, the balance is in favor of the treble.

However they are highly amenable to EQ, so budget shoppers like me are in luck.
 

Karmacoma

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After trying Chromatischism's EQ i noticed a great improvement, notably in the highs mids area (still can't understand how a lot of people don't seem to notice the Big problem there).
After long listenning sessions i still wasn't totally happy with some instruments. Then someone gave me this link https://precog.squig.link/?share=Precog_Target,Truthear_Zero
Didn't know this site, I guess some of you guys know it, I ran the auto EQ and i'm very happy with it: jazz, classical, Electronic music, everything's great with those auto'ed EQ. I'll attach the wavelet EQ file if some of you want to have a try.
 

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  • Truthear x Crinacle Zero Graphic Filters.txt
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abdo123

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It’s difficult for me to believe everyone’s claims that 1.5 dB off target is SOOOO noticeably bright.

Mine will arrive on monday, will see what happens.

Edit: also it’s an industry standard to brickwall highpass everything under 40Hz so i hardly think that’s an issue either.
 

Jimbob54

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It’s difficult for me to believe everyone’s claims that 1.5 dB off target is SOOOO noticeably bright.

Mine will arrive on monday, will see what happens.

Edit: also it’s an industry standard to brickwall highpass everything under 40Hz so i hardly think that’s an issue either.
It is of course entirely personal- and I prefer that ear gain bump more akin to Crinacle's IEF neutral target than Hm IE19 and the difference between those 2 is noticeable.

Anyone can test their sensitivity to this region on any 'phones of coiurse. EQ to Harman using Oratory or whatever then add a roughly Q1.5 peak around 2500 and adjust it by a dB or so up and down from that in increments . I suspect many would say once you get to 2db above Harman things are getting a bit much. For others they would probably prefer a db or 2 less than Harman
 
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Karmacoma

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It’s difficult for me to believe everyone’s claims that 1.5 dB off target is SOOOO noticeably bright.

Mine will arrive on monday, will see what happens.
Check the site/EQ's i posted, its more like 5 dB off target for the high mids that's why, it was just unbearable to me personally. (Yes it depends on the target, won't start this debate again here, the target you're talking about isn't mine, and maybe not even yours).
It's so obvious that without EQ they'd have remained in my drawer forever, while i'm now very happy with them.
Don't forget to post your own impressions when you'll get them, it's always interesting, as long as you do not engage the discussion like a 15 yo.
And if you look the whole thread some (many) people don't seem to notice that, so not ''everybody'', wider discussion about ear canals, eartips, age (but i wouldn't dare start the latter) etc...
That said, I hope you'll enjoy them straight up.
 

abdo123

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Check the site/EQ's i posted, its more like 5 dB off target for the high mids that's why, it was just unbearable to me personally. (Yes it depends on the target, won't start this debate again here, the target you're talking about isn't mine, and maybe not even yours).
It's so obvious that without EQ they'd have remained in my drawer forever, while i'm now very happy with them.
Don't forget to post your own impressions when you'll get them, it's always interesting, as long as you do not engage the discussion like a 15 yo.
And if you look the whole thread some (many) people don't seem to notice that, so not ''everybody'', wider discussion about ear canals, eartips, age (but i wouldn't dare start the latter) etc...
That said, I hope you'll enjoy them straight up.

Isn’t Amir using the latest harman target?
 

Karmacoma

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Isn’t Amir using the latest harman target?
It seems he is, can't tell you what target this site is aiming at, i just ran their auto EQ using their target, and i found it absolutely great, Have a try if you use wavelet, i've attached the EQ i got on my previous post.
But what i can tell you is according to this auto EQ tool (and my ears) -5dB for the high mids is great for this iem. I'm no expert, just linking all this because i'd have loved someone doing it for me. As Amir would say ''see all the bias you want''.
Looks like this btw.
Screenshot_2022-12-04-12-02-28-421-edit_com.pittvandewitt.wavelet.jpg
 
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staticV3

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Isn’t Amir using the latest harman target?
Yes, he's using the latest IEM target from Harman, IE2019v2.
It's not a very popular target among enthusiasts though, with many people perceiving it as shrill, shouty due to an excess 3-6kHz.
Harman's headphone target, OE2018, seems much more accepted to me.
 

Chromatischism

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After trying Chromatischism's EQ i noticed a great improvement, notably in the highs mids area (still can't understand how a lot of people don't seem to notice the Big problem there).
After long listenning sessions i still wasn't totally happy with some instruments. Then someone gave me this link https://precog.squig.link/?share=Precog_Target,Truthear_Zero
Didn't know this site, I guess some of you guys know it, I ran the auto EQ and i'm very happy with it: jazz, classical, Electronic music, everything's great with those auto'ed EQ. I'll attach the wavelet EQ file if some of you want to have a try.
That is an odd target - with an early bump at 2k, and another at 5k? 5 kHz is the most bothersome resonance (to me) and I can't get on with a raise there. Interesting though.
 

Robbo99999

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It’s difficult for me to believe everyone’s claims that 1.5 dB off target is SOOOO noticeably bright.

Mine will arrive on monday, will see what happens.

Edit: also it’s an industry standard to brickwall highpass everything under 40Hz so i hardly think that’s an issue either.
1.5dB is very noticeable in the "shouty" range where our ear is most sensitive, and in other places where our ear is less sensitive then 1.5dB is certainly very noticeable indeed if it covers a wide enough area. For example, when I was messing around with linear tilt filters that affect frequency response from 20Hz up to 20kHz, then a 0.25dB slope from 20Hz-20kHz across that whole range was noticeable - it depends on how wide a frequency band is affected with the dB change you're talking about, and also in which frequency ranges the change occurs - in my experience (and in the science) our ears are very sensitive from 1-3kHz so small changes there make a big differences, certainly 1.5dB would do so over this range easily.

EDIT: re your 40Hz High Pass comment, that's ridiculous - there's plenty of content in music below 40Hz!
 
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abdo123

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EDIT: re your 40Hz High Pass comment, that's ridiculous - there's plenty of content in music below 40Hz!

Well I'm just sharing what my friends in the industry told me, sure there are outliers here and there, but i would not call it plenty.

For me 1.5 dB will not turn a perfectly neutral headphone to a painfully bright one, if the original target is already bright that's another discussion.
 

Robbo99999

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Well I'm just sharing what my friends in the industry told me, sure there are outliers here and there, but i would not call it plenty.

For me 1.5 dB will not turn a perfectly neutral headphone to a painfully bright one, if the original target is already bright that's another discussion.
1.5dB is you referring to the frequency response difference in the "shouty" 1-3kHz range, not the bass, considering you only quoted part of my post! Don't confuse them! We're talking about two seperate things - "shouty" excess in 1-3kHz (in reference to "1.5dB") and your seperate statement that you think music is High Passed at 40Hz (lol). Music is not high passed at 40Hz. Some music might be, but most is not. When I've analysed music specturally through Audacity, then I think you could get away with saying that a lot of music is High Passed at 30Hz, but not 40Hz - ie there's not a lot of music with meaningful content below 30Hz. I'd let you off if you said most music was high passed at 35Hz (certainly not brickwalled), but that's not the same as 40Hz.

EDIT: 1.5dB in the "shouty" range won't make it bright, it makes it mostly shouty (whilst adding just a touch of brightness to the overall tonality), but it wouldn't be described predominantly as making the headphone brighter.
 
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