I haven't tried it myself but I would expect that above 500Hz it adjusts the level without doing correction. I'm doing the same thing when doing manual correction.
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Trouble with Dirac Live and lack of bass after correction
- Thread starter spacebar
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I haven't tried it myself but I would expect that above 500Hz it adjusts the level without doing correction. I'm doing the same thing when doing manual correction.
I mean to lower the entire target curve. You won't loose bass, you will get response that is balanced but you will loose 5-7dB of headroom meaning your max SPL when preamp is cranked 100% would be 5-7dB quiter.
Measuring in REW with RTA MMM at your LP before and after the correction is always a good idea. When moving your mic around your LP you should cover approximately the same area that was covered with Dirac's measurement points.
This is a very common misconception - you never boost anything with filters, you only attenuate, otherwise digital clipping would occur. Any frequency boosted in filter needs to be attenuated in convolution engine for the same ammount so boost equals to zero and all other frequencies get attenauted. The only thing you loose is headroom.
This is common knowledge.
Let me rephrase then:
If and when @spacebar listens at 77-80db average, 95+dB peak, his woofer won’t be able to follow this target curve. It will distort.
Happy now?
Whatever his woofer can produce in terms of max SPL in the 45-70Hz range will stay intact, it is MF and HF that will be attenuated by filter. In that context there will be no "suffering and distorion" introduced by filter.
OP
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That’s noted. I’m a low volume listener and I never crank up the volume so much. For now the volume is around 10% to 25% of 100%. Around 50/60 is way too loud for my ears.
I adjusted the curve for my taste but at high volume it might fail if I understood you correctly?
I have heard some people say that the better the amp and speakers you have, the better it sounds on low volume. I can’t verify that saying from fact, but my experience with this amp, is that it’s true. My old Yamaha could not. I really enjoy the sound now. But I can’t get my head around that Dirac or not Dirac enabled issue.
My expectations for the speakers was not very high since I never have had any amp like this, but this amp gave my old speakers a new life. Experiences like that is so great and fun. I love that.
Anyhow, I appreciate the tip, but it would help if you could explain some more about this, or link to a page where I could read more. Room correction is new to me so I’m learning.
It won't fail as it will play some freqeuncies equally loud and some less loud than without the EQ filters. Look a the graph below:
Grey line is original (uncorrected) speaker's response. It has 13dB peak-to-peak variations so if you want the response to be flat you have to attenuate everything to the green target line to have resulting response equal to white line. In this process you are loosing 13dB of the max SPL ability (headroom). Filters never boost a signal as digital clipping would occur, they only attenuate.
I will try once more, and then I will give up with you:
From my first post, I never said anything about distortion of the kind of digital clipping.
It was all about the small speaker.
Let’s say that the owner enjoys his music at Xdb average, measured at the mids.
As you say, the MF and the HF (and the midbass) will be attenuated by 6db.
Not the area 45-70Hz. This will not be attenuated.
At this level, after the filter is applied, in order to play at the same desired level as before, the rest of the spectrum will play +6db from the point of the attenuation, so -6+6=0. No problem here.
The midwoofer will be forced to play 6db louder between 45-70Hz, to catch up, but will start from 0, not -6. So +6db.
You said it yourself:
And with small midwoofers (it’s a 6 inch, isn’t it?) there is no headroom available to lose at 45-70Hz.
This is the measurements of the Monitor Audio Silver 6, with 2 6inchers, and much bigger cabin. Check the distortion at 90db.
Do you think that the Siver 1, will have any headroom available after the filter?
It will sound bad, the midwoofer might even bottom down
I give up. As you don't understand the concept how filters are applied nor what headroom is further discussion is meaningless.
It could damage the voice coil former at the woofer. There would be some twacking, thwacking, snapping sounds and then the coil would be busted, maybe shorted or rubbing on the magnet assembly. It's very obvious.
Me too.I give up. As you don't understand the concept how filters are applied nor what headroom is further discussion is meaningless.
Because you don’t understand the limitations of a 6 inch midwoofer.
The explanation makes perfect sense to me, can you detail the problem in it please.I give up. As you don't understand the concept how filters are applied nor what headroom is further discussion is meaningless.
Ermm it's two way speaker if the demands on the midwoofer are increased which they are in the bass relative to the rest of the fr range . for a similar acoustic subjective output it has to move more and it's the same driver that should do midrange to I can see where it can go wrong especially if the EQ is trying to fill some acoustic null at listening posistion the speaker can do a lot of work for nothing .
Also imo properly fixed bass sound less boomy and "faster" and more correct , but it's also less bass than before in pure quantity you removed the slow rumbling resonances that we are all used to hear before encountering room correction , let oyour earrs/brain burn in properly listen to this for a while .
Also i think subwoofer would help a lot here not for loudness but for headroom and extension , you need headroom to play the room corection game .
Perciveved loudness at bass frequncies are not so reliable you may play louder than you think
if you played the rest at the same level you would probably leave the room
Also imo properly fixed bass sound less boomy and "faster" and more correct , but it's also less bass than before in pure quantity you removed the slow rumbling resonances that we are all used to hear before encountering room correction , let oyour earrs/brain burn in properly listen to this for a while .
Also i think subwoofer would help a lot here not for loudness but for headroom and extension , you need headroom to play the room corection game .
Perciveved loudness at bass frequncies are not so reliable you may play louder than you think
if you played the rest at the same level you would probably leave the roomHe suggested that EQ is pushing small woofer above it's ability to produce LF, but the fact is that EQ filters are not "pushing" nor boosting ANY frequency - they only attenuate the response at some frequences or leave it at 0dB. As a result you loose headroom. That means that in no way you're asking the woofer to produce anything it was not producing without filters, so no damage can occur as a result of room EQ.
In a scenario when you try to fill the null it will also never work beyond it's capabilities. How much of that work would you hear because of the null is another thing.
SW helps pretty much always, even with large floorstanders. Regarding the headroom, with standard speaker sensitivity of app 87db and amp gain of 24-27dB you easilly have 5-7dB of hearoom to spare for room EQ. Most people practically never play that loud and as a result fo EQ sound quality will be greatly improved.
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