Trip to France - some advice please!

[Karmacoma]

Ah, the classic counterargument. Ever tried looking up the answer you are asking for?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_safety_in_Europe

2018 numbers: Number of people killed per Billion km
Sweden: 3.4
France: 5.8
Germany: 4.3
Italy: 6.5
Poland: 14.6
EU Average: 5.8

And most countries in the EU have since decreased their number of road deaths.

USA 2022 data: https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state

Deaths per 100 million vehicle miles traveled:
US Total: 1.33
Massachusetts: 0.76
South Carolina: 1.85

Per Billion km: (x10/1.609344)
US average: 8.3
Massachusetts: 4.7
South Carolina: 11.5

And to even the score: 2018 data
Deaths per 100 million vehicle miles traveled:
US Total: 1.13
Massachusetts: 0.54
South Carolina: 1.83

Per Billion km:
US average: 7.0
Massachusetts: 3.3
South Carolina: 11.4

To be fair, I've driven around the Carolina's. I'm surprised the number isn't higher. Every single car was driving at least 15 mph over the speed limit and on their phones. Very sloppy drivers.

But I still think it is fair to say the average American road is at least 40% more dangerous. If not more.

Ok 5,8 Vs 7
Pretty even then
Let's also consider all the legislations regarding safety tend to be lighter in the US (also some of them state-dependent)
Motocyclists protections, seatbelts, vehicle safety control, vehicle architecture norms, speed limits, alcool consumption control measures etc... Not to forget cultural differences, like driving a car with a nut sack hanging, a proven source of balsy hubris. All that tends to even the stats in favor of our US counterparts I guess. Stats digging is a real proficiency, we can only guess, Dunning Kruger slope is never afar.

Thanks for looking it up, I'm gonna shine at my next dinner in town.

What's up with Poland though? lol

 

[Haskil]

I've always found it curious why French food hasn't found much of a following here in the US ?
Many years ago there was a small franchise in Chicago called "The Magic Pan" that specialized in French crepe based dinners and other such.
It was one of my favorite places to go though a bit expensive. After they folded that was the end of that .

French cuisine is very complicated due to the fact that each region has its specialties, even different variations of the same dish and you are considered a heretic if you call Cassoulet that of Toulouse, of Pamier because you will be told that the only , the real one is from Castelnaudary and it can only be cooked in a terracotta pot...
And that changes again if you think about the cuisine of the great chefs Escoffier and company...

In France, we fight to know whether we should say "Pain au chocolat" or "Chocolatine" for a buttery puff pastry surrounding a bar of pure cocoa dark chocolate... And we also fight to know if the real galette des rois mage is a puff pastry filled with almond frangipane or if it is a crown brioche with candied fruits... And serious arguments, with historians, linguists and all the trembling...

Before these complications arise....

In fact, there is French cuisine on Sundays and on the day when you receive guests and this one is excellent, even magnificent sometimes and not always complicated...

And there is everyday cooking... and there, really, the French must step aside and lower their hats to the Italians...

As Paul Bocuse said: “France has the best cuisine in the world, but the country in the world where we eat the best is Italy.” And later in this broadcast, he added that Morocco had one of the best gastronomies in the world for the same reason as Italy: it was a women's affair in these countries...

 

[Rja4000]

Narbonne is not in Camargue !
More towards the other side of the Mediterranean cost, 140kms from Camargue

A bit less than 2h drive, indeed.

 

[Rja4000]

train to Reims and renting a car there. We're particularly interested in a tour of some Champagne caves

Make sure not to drink and drive.
Severe fines (and other consequences) are not funny at all...

To taste the wine, you may as well walk from one wine shop to the next in Reims. There are plenty and you'll discover that there are way too many types of Champagne wine.

 

[Ken1951]

Make sure not to drink and drive.
Severe fines (and other consequences) are not funny at all...

To taste the wine, you may as well walk from one wine shop to the next in Reims. There are plenty and you'll discover that there are way too many types of Champagne wine.

We abandoned the idea of getting a car and will be traveling by train between locations and by taxi when needed.

 

[Hear Here]

Don't drink the water.

That was the advice for visitors to France in the years following WW11 ( I first visited in 1957), but now the water is perfectly good for drinking. In fact every restaurant is expected to provide a jug of tap water free of charge - you won't normally even have to ask for it! Buy the wine as well of course - it's even better than the water!

 

[Hear Here]

I think my favourite city in France may be Nancy if one excludes Paris. Truly spectacular architecture and less clogged with tourists than say Strasbourg and some other tourist traps.

Try to visit towns when there is some big event. The French do these very well and often with lots of street events that are free, plus indoor events where modest charges are likely. Ditto in the Netherlands. Having an inland waterways motor cruiser in Europe since 2008, I have been fortunate enough to have experienced many festivals and other events.

 

[Willem]

That was the advice for visitors to France in the years following WW11, but now the water is perfectly good for drinking. In fact every restaurant is expected to provide a jug of tap water free of charge - you won't normally even have to ask for it! Buy the wine as well of course - it's even better than the water!

The water is fine everywhere in Europe. Do not forget that you are in civilization, with well organized states and mostly good public services.

 

[Jimbob54]

Lets not get into pissing contests between US and EU or anywhere else please.

 

[Ken1951]

Lets not get into pissing contests between US and EU or anywhere else please.

Thank you. This thread has been very helpful to me so far. Our French lessons are progressing well and we greatly look forward to our time in France.

 

[Haskil]

The water is fine everywhere in Europe. Do not forget that you are in civilization, with well organized states and mostly good public services.

Yes ! Barring an accident, tap water is obviously drinkable. This is a subject that is closely monitored and discussed with the lobbies for mineral water and spring water sold in bottles, who are constantly on the lookout to scare the public...
Personally, between the water that comes out of my tap and the water that comes out of a plastic bottle that has been stored I don't know how or for how long, I chose: tap water...

 

[Willem]

Yes ! Barring an accident, tap water is obviously drinkable. This is a subject that is closely monitored and discussed with the lobbies for mineral water and spring water sold in bottles, who are constantly on the lookout to scare the public...
Personally, between the water that comes out of my tap and the water that comes out of a plastic bottle that has been stored I don't know how or for how long, I chose: tap water...

Indeed. There have been enough tests in the Netherlands demonstrating that our tap water is cleaner than bottled water. In fact, there is increasing concern about the microplastic particles in bottled water. Finally, it is of course madness to move bottled water by truck if it can be distributed far more cheaply and with less environmental impact by pipes. Therefore, customers are increasingly asking for tap water in restaurants, and the university restaurant has stopped seling bottled water. It only was a trendy thing for some time, showing that you were a person of international (i.e. French or Italian) taste and culture, and that you could afford to waste money.
Of course, tap water is not clean in every country. A few years ago we had a Russian student staying with us before she could find her own accommodation (we have a large house), and the first thing she asked was where she could buy water, because she expected that the drinking water would be unsafe. The same was true with a Nigerian postdoc that we hosted for a while last Fall.
But there is also the not important issue of the taste of the water. Dutch tap water has often beaten bottled water in double blind tastings, but the same will not be true for the water I tasted in Paris: it tasted vile.

 

[dan_uk]

We're planning a trip to France in September to last about three weeks. We're starting in Paris for about 10 days and have most of that fairly well decided upon. Guided tour of the Louvre for two days, Musee d'Orsay, Notre Dame, Ste Chapelle, Versailles, and Giverny. Possibly more I can't remember at the moment. Then the train to Reims and renting a car there. We're particularly interested in a tour of some Champagne caves after seeing them in an episode of Murders In. Does anyone have a recommendation for the best of the caves to tour? We're also going to Annecy, Lyon, Arles, Avignon, and I want to go out with a guide birding in the Camargue area. At this point the caves recommendation is an interest as I can't really seem to figure it out online. Any other advice will of course be appreciated.

The roads (non motorways) between Troyes and Beaune are sublime.. if you enjoy driving and have a half decent hire car, you can have a lot of fun.

 

[Willem]

Personally, I think Champagne is not a particularly memorable wine. As a onetime wine lover there is lot that I would rather drink. So when I have a party I serve some much cheaper alternative bubbles. Talking about wine visits, I loved cycling in the hills of Burgundy, watching the actual fields of the many great Burgundy wines that I once drank in my Cambridge days, and seeing the grapes being collected and pressed in the little villages.

 

[EJ3]

The roads (non motorways) between Troyes and Beaune are sublime.. if you enjoy driving and have a half decent hire car, you can have a lot of fun.

To me, great driving (with great views) is usually an important part of any vacation. As is riding a great train.

 

[EJ3]

Personally, I think Champagne is not a particularly memorable wine. As a onetime wine lover there is lot that I would rather drink. So when I have a party I serve some much cheaper alternative bubbles. Talking about wine visits, I loved cycling in the hills of Burgundy, watching the actual fields of the many great Burgundy wines that I once drank in my Cambridge days, and seeing the grapes being collected and pressed in the little villages.

I fully agree: Home made "Cold Duck" on New Years Eve in Salzburg, Austria, comes to mind, Lambrusco (in Italy) and many others come to mind.

 

[Haskil]

Indeed. There have been enough tests in the Netherlands demonstrating that our tap water is cleaner than bottled water. In fact, there is increasing concern about the microplastic particles in bottled water. Finally, it is of course madness to move bottled water by truck if it can be distributed far more cheaply and with less environmental impact by pipes. Therefore, customers are increasingly asking for tap water in restaurants, and the university restaurant has stopped seling bottled water. It only was a trendy thing for some time, showing that you were a person of international (i.e. French or Italian) taste and culture, and that you could afford to waste money.
Of course, tap water is not clean in every country. A few years ago we had a Russian student staying with us before she could find her own accommodation (we have a large house), and the first thing she asked was where she could buy water, because she expected that the drinking water would be unsafe. The same was true with a Nigerian postdoc that we hosted for a while last Fall.
But there is also the not important issue of the taste of the water. Dutch tap water has often beaten bottled water in double blind tastings, but the same will not be true for the water I tasted in Paris: it tasted vile.

In Paris, it depends on the districts. I lived in the 13th-14th near the Montsouris reservoirs whose water comes from sources collected in the Eure, 70 km from Paris. Very little chlorinated, it is excellent... Elsewhere, it can be very strongly chlorinated and have a taste... as bad as that of thermal spring water taken from fountains, before oxygenation...
Where I live in Normandy, the water is sometimes quite chlorinated: very simple, you have to fill glass bottles the day before... the next day the chlorine is evaporated and its taste goes with it and the water becomes perfect for drinking, make tea, coffee...

 

[Haskil]

Personally, I think Champagne is not a particularly memorable wine. As a onetime wine lover there is lot that I would rather drink. So when I have a party I serve some much cheaper alternative bubbles. Talking about wine visits, I loved cycling in the hills of Burgundy, watching the actual fields of the many great Burgundy wines that I once drank in my Cambridge days, and seeing the grapes being collected and pressed in the little villages.

For champagne to be a memorable wine, you unfortunately have to pay very dearly for the bottle... very expensive... but then, we say to ourselves that if we had paid this price for a wine without bubbles, we might have be better spent your money...

I love champagne, but I'm not a snob and like more and more French people, I taste all French wines with bubbles: Montlouis, Vouvray, Blanquette de Limoux, Clairette de Die, Crémant du Jura, Crémant d' Alsace and Crément de Bourgogne...and there are wonderful things in each of its appellations. Particularly Burgundy, Alsace and Vouvray... The Bordeaux region has also gotten into it and is doing things that are not bad at all...
And as I am not a nationalist, I also like certain Spanish Cava, Argentinian and Brazilian "champagnes" which are quite remarkable... The Brazilian Chandon is a marvel, like their Salton, their Casa Perini... if Matthias comes here ...

 

[EJ3]

For champagne to be a memorable wine, you unfortunately have to pay very dearly for the bottle... very expensive... but then, we say to ourselves that if we had paid this price for a wine without bubbles, we might have be better spent your money...

I love champagne, but I'm not a snob and like more and more French people, I taste all French wines with bubbles: Montlouis, Vouvray, Blanquette de Limoux, Clairette de Die, Crémant du Jura, Crémant d' Alsace and Crément de Bourgogne...and there are wonderful things in each of its appellations. Particularly Burgundy, Alsace and Vouvray... The Bordeaux region has also gotten into it and is doing things that are not bad at all...
And as I am not a nationalist, I also like certain Spanish Cava, Argentinian and Brazilian "champagnes" which are quite remarkable... The Brazilian Chandon is a marvel, like their Salton, their Casa Perini... if Matthias comes here ...

While I am not a wine drinker (unless I happen to be with people who are drinking wine, I'll try a small amount & IF I like it, I'll likely have a glass of it).
I have found that there is at least one from the many countries that I have tasted wine in that is good, to my non-wine-connoisseur taste.
(that does not mean that the wine came from that country, only that those I was with picked a wine from somewhere that I thought "wasn't bad").

 

[Ken1951]

For champagne to be a memorable wine, you unfortunately have to pay very dearly for the bottle... very expensive... but then, we say to ourselves that if we had paid this price for a wine without bubbles, we might have be better spent your money...

I love champagne, but I'm not a snob and like more and more French people, I taste all French wines with bubbles: Montlouis, Vouvray, Blanquette de Limoux, Clairette de Die, Crémant du Jura, Crémant d'Alsace and Crément de Burgundy...and there are wonderful things in each of its appellations. Particularly Burgundy, Alsace and Vouvray... The Bordeaux region has also gotten into it and is doing things that are not bad at all...
And as I am not a nationalist, I also like certain Spanish Cava, Argentinian and Brazilian "champagnes" which are quite remarkable... The Brazilian Chandon is a marvel, like their Salton, their Casa Perini... if Matthias comes here. ..

I'm very fond of Champagne and many other sparkling types. We're particularly looking forward to seeing the chalk caves. We first really became aware of them in an episode of "Meurtres en" and felt they were something we really wanted to see.