Trinnov AltitudeCI Review and 32 Channel Build Thread

[exm]

I'd rather have AES ran to each rack as I already had AES inputs at each rack, even before I bought a Trinnov. Not that it matters, but you also can't do 192kHz to all 32 channels using the CI's dante capabilities. Their amps are decent, haven't researched much about them. I just already had the AHB2's.

Makes sense. I have (soon had) 2 amps, a 5 channel AB and a 8 channel D. Figured it's easier to make the jump, especially since I got a great deal purchasing both. Cable management is down to an ethernet and a trigger cable. Love it!

 

[etc6849]

Oh nice. Yep, I got a really really great deal. I think my dealer saw my middle class house and took pity on me

PS, apparently you no longer need to even buy through an installer/home theater professional. B&H has these coming. I definitely wouldn't buy from there, and would shop around though...
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...ltitude_ci_32m_altitude_ci_microphone_32.html

Figured it's easier to make the jump, especially since I got a great deal purchasing both.

 

[darth]

Oh nice. Yep, I got a really really great deal. I think my dealer saw my middle class house and took pity on me

PS, apparently you no longer need to even buy through an installer/home theater professional. B&H has these coming. I definitely wouldn't buy from there, and would shop around though...
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...ltitude_ci_32m_altitude_ci_microphone_32.html

Too bad min channels is 16. My bh payboo card limit ain't that high to save on tax

 

[etc6849]

I don't think anyone's is. Bill Gates could sign up for one and they'd only give him $15k.

Too bad min channels is 16. My bh payboo card limit ain't that high to save on tax

 

[PGAMiami]

Makes sense. I have (soon had) 2 amps, a 5 channel AB and a 8 channel D. Figured it's easier to make the jump, especially since I got a great deal purchasing both. Cable management is down to an ethernet and a trigger cable. Love it!

Although I’m a big fan of my AHB2s, cables are a mess. Certainly would consider an 8 channel Trinnov with Dante

 

[peng]

Although I’m a big fan of my AHB2s, cables are a mess. Certainly would consider an 8 channel Trinnov with Dante

Do you want (that would be me..) Dante or you actually need it, just curious, as I am seeing more posts about Dante recently.

 

[exm]

Although I’m a big fan of my AHB2s, cables are a mess. Certainly would consider an 8 channel Trinnov with Dante

AFAIK, the 8-channel amp is phased out, and it doesn't support Dante. But I might be mistaken here.

Do you want (that would be me..) Dante or you actually need it, just curious, as I am seeing more posts about Dante recently.

I want it (but don't need) it for the following reasons:

• Cable management
• Card was factory installed at a discount
• Who knows what the future of Audio over IP brings?

 

[PGAMiami]

To quote the Stones "you don't always get what you want but you get what you need." I don't think I can get much, if any, improvement in sound quality by switching from AHB2s in mono driven by the Altitude CI DACs versus a Dante Trinnov amp. But the cables are a mess, and amps do get old. I would think an updated 8 channel Dante amp would be a big seller. Actually, I think 9 would be the sweet spot as you could then run a 5.4.4 system with very few cables, just a breakout XLR cable for the subs, two boxes, and end game sonics.

 

[exm]

To quote the Stones "you don't always get what you want but you get what you need." I don't think I can get much, if any, improvement in sound quality by switching from AHB2s in mono driven by the Altitude CI DACs versus a Dante Trinnov amp. But the cables are a mess, and amps do get old. I would think an updated 8 channel Dante amp would be a big seller. Actually, I think 9 would be the sweet spot as you could then run a 5.4.4 system with very few cables, just a breakout XLR cable for the subs, two boxes, and end game sonics.

Don't forget that you can bridge channels on the 16-channel amp if you really want to go nuts with power...

 

[etc6849]

I did some more much needed manual tweaking today... The actually optimized plots (green) are my super-secret method, and the other ones are just using the optimizer by itself (blue). Both methods use the same target curves, and both use the optimizer. Neither is using WaveForming.

Good news is it didn't take me two days, nor did it cost me $5500 lol: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...r-than-a-knowledgeable-diy-calibration.72973/

I will say my manual plus optimizer method sounds incredible. I want to try WaveForming as well, but I don't think my room will ever be a good fit. If I moved the subs to ideal locations, my middle chair is right at 1 meter from them (1 meter and below is where WaveForming causes audible cancellation effects per Trinnov). Of course, that's with planar WaveForming. I have some doubts the other types can even approach the performance shown below with the subs in their current locations.

The Trinnov rep who gave the webinar I attended was very kind and knowledgeable. He looked at some of my prior measurements, room pics, dimensions, etc... He didn't say the other methods wouldn't work, but I told him my goals and he only recommended planar. Which is totally fair as I'm going for world class performance for music and movies. Kudos and thanks to David at Trinnov for his email reply which caused me to explore and come up with a manual workaround...

If anyone within one state of SC needs help, I'll charge half the going rate of $5500

 

[etc6849]

Oops, I forgot to include the acoustically measured THD plot at the main listening position.

In my experience, this is almost as important as decay. Let's just say that even people who charge $5500 will seldom see a system that can do this (note for most of the plot THD is between .2-.5%):

 

[PGAMiami]

Does it sound better than before you got the AL CI ?

 

[etc6849]

Better than 6 Xilica XD4080's:
Trinnov CI out of the box with no external DSPs and no manual fine tuning: NO.

Trinnov CI out of the box with some minor tweaks and 6 Xilica XD4080 DSPs: YES, better.

Trinnov CI with 16 DAC3 B's: so much headroom now. Not a single amp is clipping and I had it to 128dB with the Mad Max Fury Road intro. Out of the box better: NO. With hours of customizing: sure, it's slightly better lol.

However, their optimization appears to be a lot of marketing. The active XO auto calibration was BS out of the box. I put manual settings in, sure it sounds great now.

The optimizer does ok with subs out of the box, but I think the plots above show it needs expert help to be what I'd consider world class. I'm extremely picky though. Most will love the way it sounds out of the box, and sure it's better than any processor I've ever bought out of the box.

The CI can be world class, but not from just running the wizard. I think my 6 Xilica's were helping the CI's algorithms a lot before, but realize for the 6 Xilica DSP's I hand measured and calibrated 29 channels. No where near that effort to get the CI to sound really really good.

Does it sound better than before you got the AL CI ?

 

[PGAMiami]

You should be proud of the job you’ve done optimizing your system. I concur that Waveforming may not improve things for you. My days rewiring speakers are over. At this stage I prefer to keep things stock and minimize the number of boxes in my room. In that context I find the CI to be a real pleasure to have.

 

[PGAMiami]

Anyone updated the firmware yet?

 

[etc6849]

New FW is out, and it provides a much needed feature (not the WaveForming improvement which I'm sure is great), but this: "Delays on the spatialisation page can now be edited in cents of a millisecond." Finally, I can actually get to where I was with my 6 pro audio Xilica DSPs lol...

This will allow me to truly have a perfect phase transition between my main speakers and my 8 subs.

Rest of the FW 2.2 notes:

AltitudeCI 2.2.0
Software version 2.2 brings improvements and additional features to WaveFormingTM, level alignment, and bass management.
Please note that you will have to recompute your existing presets to use most of the new features.
New features
• Waveforming can now be used in setups without rear subwoofers, starting from a minimal 2-subwoofers configuration (2-0 setup with all subwoofers in front).
Note that in this configuration, the front subwoofers not only reproduce bass content but also absorb reflections from the back wall. While seat-to-seat consistency may be reduced compared to setups with rear subwoofers, the system still delivers highly effective decay reduction.
This setup is particularly recommended for rooms where the listening area is too close to the rear wall to accommodate a traditional WaveForming configuration.
• Adds Bass Management alignment, a new bass management option which allows to give priority to specific speakers for bass management optimization.
• default: previous behaviour, all speakers are taken into consideration.
• L, R, C speakers: focus on left, right and central speakers. Best suited for home theaters with priority given to the center channel to have a good balance between cinema and stereo.
• L, R speakers: focus on left and right speakers. Best suited for stereo.
• C: focus on the center channel. Best suited for home theaters for optimal dialogue optimization.


Enhancements
• New presets generated with the configuration wizard or existing presets recomputed now come with improved WaveForming optimization that yields more reliable and stable performance, along with more natural sounding bass by using filters that are more faithful to the room’s physics.
• Target Curves can now be edited with keyboard controls :
• select the EQ point with left and right arrows.
• increase or decrease the gain with up and down arrows. Default step is 1dB, but you can use 0.1dB steps by pressing ⌥ (option) for Mac or Altfor Windows. 5dB steps can be used by pressing Shifton Mac or Windows.


• Delays on the spatialisation page can now be edited in cents of a millisecond.
Bug fixes
• Resolved an issue that could cause the unit to freeze after running for a while.
• Addressed an issue where the clock could be lost after a power-up.
• Fixed a fatal error that could occasionally occur after a power-up.
• Resolved an issue causing the front panel display to remain black after an update.
• Refresh EDID button can now be used multiple times.
Known limitations & bugs
• Roon and UPnP inputs are not supported yet.
• La Remote is not functional.
• The save process can sometimes take a long time with a spinner displayed on the interface.
• OSD is currently not available.
• Upmixing native Dolby content with Neural:X or Auro3D may result in playback issues or complete loss of audio.
• If the image fails to display after waking the device, go to SOURCES/HDMI and press 'Refresh' EDID.
• Speaker groups checkboxes can’t be clicked on the following pages :
• target curves
• extension curves
• FIR EQ
• Graphic EQ


• When entering calibration with dim. activated on the interface, dim. mode wrongly stays effective during calibration.
• HDMI resolution and colour information displayed on the interface are sometimes incorrect.
• Issue when using the load PEQ feature on a multiway speaker : the PEQ can be affected the wrong way.
• Changing preset when using the graphs page doesn’t automatically reload graphs. The app needs to be refreshed for them to be displayed correctly.

 

[etc6849]

Go for it. I'm going to wait until some others do it just in case...

Anyone updated the firmware yet?

 

[peng]

Oops, I forgot to include the acoustically measured THD plot at the main listening position.

In my experience, this is almost as important as decay. Let's just say that even people who charge $5500 will seldom see a system that can do this (note for most of the plot THD is between .2-.5%):
View attachment 557375

Will the $5,500 service include a full set of graphs when the job is done?

 

[etc6849]

Hahaha, I can't speak for Adam, but I posted the details of his service (pasted screenshots of what he told me) in that other thread.

I will say, my $2750 service would include REW measurements before and after for every channel, and you can share them. I don't like to travel though, so it has to be in an adjacent state to South Carolina, or you'll need to bring your entire theater to me

Will the $5,500 service include a full set of graphs when the job is done?

 

[peng]

Hahaha, I can't speak for Adam, but I posted the details of his service (pasted screenshots of what he told me) in that other thread.

I will say, my $2750 service would include REW measurements before and after for every channel, and you can share them. I don't like to travel though, so it has to be in an adjacent state to South Carolina, or you'll need to bring your entire theater to me

In my opinion, one should charge a sliding scale, or an hourly rate but they would then be an honest system. Sliding scale could be based on: minimum cost for just a full calibration, based on a pre-defined scope, and then incremental based on the specified goal such as frequency response specifying range, +/- x dB no smoothing, impulse response, decay, etc., with specified curves, graphs based on REW's or equivalent. Hard to define without a lot of thinking but it has to be better than just $5,500 or even $500 for a calibration, a 2-day process or whatever. Regardless, for me (just me), if I spent >$15,000 or even $5,000 on an AVP and RC system I am not going to rely on someone else to do such a job that I want to result to be measured both objectively and subjectively. I have watched quite a few videos on how people do their stuff, including self proclaimed professional such as M.Poes that Amir seems to trust, yet I can't say I fully agreed to things they said, to some extent yes, naturally.