Trinnov AltitudeCI Review and 32 Channel Build Thread

[etc6849]

All racks are done. Just waiting for a Global Cache IP2IR-P to come in the mail so I can push the front rack back in and calibrate the Trinnov on FW 2.1.2.

Had to make over 200 feet of custom AES cables, but it's much better engineering wise to have shorter speaker cables and long AES runs to 4 distributed racks. It actually improves the overall system's damping factor by ~2x (due to the very low output impedance of the Benchmark AHB2's).

The glob of wires at the front goes behind the front rack. 32 XLR connectors are there, plus 6 110ohm to 75ohm impedance matching transformers for the front rack. All cables are custom made with the exception of HDMI and the red DB25 XLR breakout snakes.

I like the way the blue lights look, so I took these pics with my cell phone's flash off. I'll post more professional pics when I buy the 16th DAC3 B that feeds the HPA4 headphone amp in the back left rack.

Trinnov AltitudeCI FW 2.2 should be out within the week per Dave Pedigo (COO of Trinnov):

Plus Benchmark just posted a great video covering interpolation, intersample overs and clipping. The most thorough video on the topic I've seen:

 

[7Tiger]

Looks business Now it makes sense asking Trinnov to make a custom silver faceplate for your CI

 

[etc6849]

Yep. I was eventually going to order a black faceplate and remove the black anodizing with sodium hydroxide (drain cleaner).

Looks business Now it makes sense asking Trinnov to make a custom silver faceplate for your CI

 

[PGAMiami]

Here are the before and after graphs showing what Waveforming is doing in my room with two Perlisten R210s in the front wall and two Rythmik F12SE in the rear wall. All are on the floor. The room is 12x18.3x8.3 feet. The 12’ wall is where the screen and TV is. The front subs are in the ideal 1/4 width positions, 3’ from each side. The rear subs are 43” from each side wall. Not ideal but acceptable. Physics would predict Waveforming should work up to about 80-90hz, and that’s exactly what’s happening. The bed level speakers all are crossed over at 80hz LR24, so we’re not asking the Waveforming array to do much above 80hz as that is left to the LCR and surround speakers. Turning on pressurization mode breaks Waveforming if it is set much above 22hz. I just leave it off since with room gain the two R210s are having no problem pressurizating the relatively small room. I played around with the Waveforming settings with some help from Gemini and Claude. Not everything they said was correct, but AI certainly helped. The settings do matter quite a lot as too much or too little makes things worse. The default settings on pretty much everything were best, btw. I optimized around one primary MLP with one reference measurements and 10 Waveforming measurements covering the space of one large seating position (adjacent measurements about 16” apart, max side to side or front to back distance 32”).

 

[PGAMiami]

All racks are done. Just waiting for a Global Cache IP2IR-P to come in the mail so I can push the front rack back in and calibrate the Trinnov on FW 2.1.2.

Had to make over 200 feet of custom AES cables, but it's much better engineering wise to have shorter speaker cables and long AES runs to 4 distributed racks. It actually improves the overall system's damping factor by ~2x (due to the very low output impedance of the Benchmark AHB2's).

The glob of wires at the front goes behind the front rack. 32 XLR connectors are there, plus 6 110ohm to 75ohm impedance matching transformers for the front rack. All cables are custom made with the exception of HDMI and the red DB25 XLR breakout snakes.

I like the way the blue lights look, so I took these pics with my cell phone's flash off. I'll post more professional pics when I buy the 16th DAC3 B that feeds the HPA4 headphone amp in the back left rack.

Trinnov AltitudeCI FW 2.2 should be out within the week per Dave Pedigo (COO of Trinnov):

Plus Benchmark just posted a great video covering interpolation, intersample overs and clipping. The most thorough video on the topic I've seen:

View attachment 556144

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Correct me if I’m wrong, but if you’re using the digital attenuation on the Trinnov such that you’re always -3 db or more (post any eq or dsp), doesn’t the inter sample problem go away with almost any DAC?

 

[etc6849]

Correct, any attenuation in the Trinnov prevents ISOs for us... Just passing on a great video that shows some DSPs have been known to have interpolator overload distortion though (as the digital volume was implemented after up sampling...).

Correct me if I’m wrong, but if you’re using the digital attenuation on the Trinnov such that you’re always -3 db or more (post any eq or dsp), doesn’t the inter sample problem go away with almost any DAC?

 

[PGAMiami]

Correct, any attenuation in the Trinnov prevents ISOs for us... Just passing on a great video that shows some DSPs have been known to have interpolator overload distortion though (as the digital volume was implemented after up sampling...).
View attachment 556524

He’s a great engineer, old school. It would be great if they made an 8 channel AES or Dantei DAC using the latest chips. I suppose if there is enough demand for immersive in studios he might. I see Nevé has one, but I believe all that’s left there is the name,

 

[Frunse]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but if you’re using the digital attenuation on the Trinnov such that you’re always -3 db or more (post any eq or dsp), doesn’t the inter sample problem go away with almost any DAC?

That, i guess, is the only way to avoid it.

I use now for long Time DSP controlled aktive Speaker with an NAJDA DSP some Years ago and always needed to make -6dB on the Input also to avoid Clipping from Filtercalculations!
If an Filter (PEQ, High Shelf and so on (IIR)) gets calculated it could also get peaks over 0 dB if youre Signal on the Input goes already to that 0dB Spot.

NAJDA shows me often Clipping at beginning and after i got Input to -6dB never again

Also on my actual CamilaDSP Setup with RME Card i can avoid this easely, it has 64Bit headroom so isn't bad at all and afterwards all get send to an DAC with 24Bit and 96kHz so this Intermodulation Problem would never be there

You also can test it easely with an 1 kHz or 10 kHz Sinewave +3dB feeding in to this System (digitaly with REW) in my Setup over HDMI for all 7.1 Chanels and measure analogue Outs on the DAC's.

 

[DavidEdwinAston]

Just a positive comment on the deep, deep knowledge of the poster, and the responders! And, presumably, the even deeper pockets!

 

[Frunse]

Yep, Hobbys cost Money, as always

You could use already an cheep Stero DSP digital in and Out before an DAC to reduce the Outputlevel on an Stereo Setup.

For now only this pure digital DSP aviable from them:

https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/flex

Also for aditional 199€ with DIRAC License

I have an MiniDSP nanoDigi 2x8 still lying around

https://www.audiohobby.eu/et/minidps-kits/14978-minidsp-nanodigi-2x8-kit-all-digital-processor.html

 

[DavidEdwinAston]

Yep, Hobbys cost Money, as always

Indeed. Through our sixty years together, my Missus has probably allowed me to spend, maybe £30,000 on hifi, in total. Now, I am blessed with the "perfect", system.
The setup being discussed in this thread, is likely a tad more expensive than my lifetime spend!

 

[Frunse]

Indeed. Through our sixty years together, my Missus has probably allowed me to spend, maybe £30,000 on hifi, in total. Now, I am blessed with the "perfect", system.
The setup being discussed in this thread, is likely a tad more expensive than my lifetime spend!

Lucky you are

 

[etc6849]

Oh it definitely is. I'm just an engineer, so I'm not rich and bought 80% of it used over 13 years. The most important thing in life is learning to be happy and it seems you've succeeded so congrats! I think you know this already, but spending 60 years together and having a happy family is worth way more than all the hifi in the world.

Indeed. Through our sixty years together, my Missus has probably allowed me to spend, maybe £30,000 on hifi, in total. Now, I am blessed with the "perfect", system.
The setup being discussed in this thread, is likely a tad more expensive than my lifetime spend!

 

[etc6849]

I did an initial calibration using FW 2.1.2. I don't want to waste time analyzing and tweaking further until FW 2.2 comes out next week.

I had to nuke the auto active crossover calibration it did to tri-amp my speakers. It sounded terrible compared to the Xilica XD4080. Their algorithms to do this are total @#$%.

It even inverted one woofer on the center speaker, but not the other woofer This caused a massive drop in the LF region of the center channel measurement. And of course the optimizer tried correcting it later in optimization because it's an algo and not a human lol. At least I know I have the polarity right in my custom wiring I did inside the center speaker, too bad Trinnov can't use the correct polarity. Even the left and right channels sounded poor compared to my manual tri-amping.

Thankfully, I just put my older delay and level values in there temporarily that I had in the Xilica (until I manually re-align each with the new filters engaged), then skipped the part of the auto active crossover calibration part of the wizard (yes it lets you do this thankfully).

I let the rest of the wizard do everything, but may tweak bass management filters and delays after the FW update. They are adding an option to optimize bass management for left and right, so I'll definitely be using that for one profile and another with BM optimized for the center channel.

 

[PGAMiami]

Nice stand. I find it very difficult to get the stock one exactly vertical which results in goofy location of my speakers.

 

[darth]

My robot said the same thing. I wouldn't do it, personally, go figure

I would not assume those unused CI outputs become electrically high-impedance merely because no licensed channel is assigned to them. They may still have active AES line drivers transmitting digital zeros. Likewise, the Genelec pins on the other end are outputs, not 110 Ω receiver terminations.

I doubt modern AES drivers would instantly be damaged by an accidental output-to-output connection because they normally have controlled source impedance and protection, but it is still not a valid interface condition and there is no reason to design it that way. Might be ok, might not be.

The clean solution would be two DB25 XLR breakout cables with only the four required AES pairs connected on each cable (that's what I did between my RME AES 32 card in the Trinnov), leaving the other four pairs completely disconnected. I really like what @jhenderson0107 said he did earlier with the Tascam breakout box. I believe he had Genelecs as well, so hopefully he can chime in. https://www.markertek.com/product/tcm-bo-16dx-out/tascam-bo-16dx-out-16ch-d-sub-to-xlrm-breakout-box

The cleanest, but most expensive install is the breakout box. I just used two of these when I did Trinnov -> RME:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/769732-REG/Avid_9940_30426_00_DB25_XLRM_DigiSnake_Analog.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod..._30425_00_DB25_XLR_M_F_AES_EBU_DigiSnake.html

Or, if you already have standard DB25 cables, you could simply depopulate the four AES pairs that land on the 9301B’s transmit/output pins (probably what I'd do if I already had the cables). That should be pretty easy with a vacuum desoldering station if the connectors use solder cups. Alternatively, you could cut those unused conductors at one end and individually insulate them with heat-shrink so there is no possibility of an output-to-output connection. To save $220+ on cables, I'd probably consider cutting wires if the DB25 cover comes off with screws and isn't molded on there.

I am tempted to also try using this AES72 method https://www.americanrecorder.com/pr...j45-adapter-with-tascam-digital-alolog-pinout

To dump the RME in-between, since 4 AES pairs can be isolated. In my setup I would need 6 snakes since each AES port is annoyingly the I/O split

I emailed pro audio LA if they could take one of https://www.proaudiola.com/product-p/8-m3162-ddb-tails-2-s.htm and just solder two db25 on the other end using 4 pairs each. But no reply. If only my eyes were sharp and hands steady I would do it myself.

 

[DavidEdwinAston]

Oh it definitely is. I'm just an engineer, so I'm not rich and bought 80% of it used over 13 years. The most important thing in life is learning to be happy and it seems you've succeeded so congrats! I think you know this already, but spending 60 years together and having a happy family is worth way more than all the hifi in the world.

You are top drawer!

 

[etc6849]

I only use Triad-Orbit for stands. They are very well made, but from China. Honestly, for another $150 or so, why would anyone be using a Guitar Center stand or even worse, that tiny one that comes with it that can easily be moved around between measurements. I even use sand bags to keep my stand where it can't move at all.

Also note the level I'm using under the mic that they make. If you want to beat the average Trinnov dealer, you need a multi-axis laser level to ensure everything is lined up perfect, have an acoustical treated room and to keep the mic perfectly level and stable.

Plus you need to be using a different target curve and adjust excursion curve at a minimum. Their optimization is the best there is, but I definitely didn't leave the defaults, even for the decoding several settings needed changed when I first set it up.

Of course, you may like the flat default target curve, which is perfectly fine. Their optimization algos are the best in the business, but their automatic active crossover not so much.

Nice stand. I find it very difficult to get the stock one exactly vertical which results in goofy location of my speakers.

 

[exm]

Thanks for everything you are posting. Like you, I am no way rich by any means but finally moved up to my end-game setup (CI and Amplitude16). Will hopefully recoup some decent money selling my old equipment and using some AI stock gains for the remainder of the budget needed.

Got my units in last week and am still waiting for a few accessories. But thanks to your post, I definitely will wait for the new firmware before doing anything else.

Did play around with the menus a bit and there are so much more options compared to my Lyngdorf.

You didn’t consider the Amplitude16 amps?

 

[etc6849]

I'd rather have AES ran to each rack as I already had AES inputs at each rack, even before I bought a Trinnov. Not that it matters, but you also can't do 192kHz to all 32 channels using the CI's dante capabilities. Their amps are decent, haven't researched much about them. I just already had the AHB2's.

You didn’t consider the Amplitude16 amps?