Trinnov AltitudeCI Review and 32 Channel Build Thread

[etc6849]

Kinda complicated, but phase three is in full planning mode. I just need two more DAC3 B's. There will also be a 16th DAC3 B driving the HPA4 headphone amp, so the theater will have a dedicated headphone mode, with its own target curve in the Trinnov that gets automatically loaded when headphone mode is enabled in the custom home automation system (which will also switch JRiver to a stereo out only zone setup for just headphones).

And yep, I went all in on this, no turning back now:

 

[etc6849]

I can switch between formats in JRiver, but there is a 3-4 second delay on the Trinnov.

There is a very small faint tick I can barely hear sometimes when I play MKA files that are ripped from Atmos albums and switch formats. The Trinnov is designed to mute internally during these transitions of course (although it doesn't show it is muted on the display, it definitely is).

However, you can easily sort a JRiver playlist by audio format, that way there is nearly no delay at all between tracks (maybe 5-20ms not sure). No loud ticks/pops or anything like that.

Curious how well trinnov handles multi codec playlists. Very common to have dolby atmos music interleaved with regular music (dolby encoded vs pcm) so when track switches from one to another do you hear loud screeches, blips or something? Or is it just muted? And how long?

That's another thing I hate about H16-AES is that I feel it will blow either my genelecs or my ears at times. My dogs also don't like it.

Apple music test so to speak with continuous mode turned off if using Apple tv

 

[Frunse]

I can switch between formats in JRiver, but there is a 3-4 second delay on the Trinnov.

There is a very small faint tick I can barely hear sometimes when I play MKA files that are ripped from Atmos albums and switch formats. The Trinnov is designed to mute internally during these transitions of course (although it doesn't show it is muted on the display, it definitely is).

However, you can easily sort a JRiver playlist by audio format, that way there is nearly no delay at all between tracks (maybe 5-20ms not sure). No loud ticks/pops or anything like that.

Sounds all great, and sure an very good Device but absolutly out off my budget

First off all an main question about the crossover capabilitys?

Has it FIR Filtering and how long the max internal tap number is???
Can you Setup, let say 7x2 Way (7 x 2 Channels) and 2 Subwoofer (2 Channels) crossover to get 7.2 full aktive Surround Speaker Setup with it?

I use on my Setup 96dB LR Filter @ 96kHz and thats sounds so amazing i don't want to go back from this

At the end i use somthing Trinov do as well (Software DSP on an PC Base):

RME HDSPe AES on an PC Based system with an Intel Processor for now on Ubuntu Studio That gives me 16 Channels and i can put in an second HDSPe Card for 32 Channels
Used on CamillaDSP Softwarebased DSP with plenty of Tap's and Processingpower for all kind's of Crossover stuff and i am free to use Hardware like i want.

DAC's , AMP's and so on.

I could also use an HDSPe AoX-D for Dante Out but i like to stik on AES, not sure how good the Linux support is on that. The AES Card works fine so far

I am do Speaker measuring now for more than 30 Years so i can make the Setup by my self with using REW , rephase and one Byerdynamic Mikrofone for 220€
without an fancy 3D mikrophone and Dirac.

REW is now capabel to make all PEQ for you automaticaly and convert it to CamillaDSP Filter Files with youre own Target curve.

Of course thats not for every one if he never designed an Speaker or has knowlage about Speaker Measuring and it kost you also much Time with all that Tools.

But it is also my Hobby since i am 15 Years old, now 56 My first Measuring Device was an external Sweep Device with Parallel or Serial input, sweeps all Frequences from 20 to 20000Hz and nothing more as an selfbuilding Kit runs on DOS LOOOL long Time ago. One Measuring need some Time, it was slow.

For an Endconsumer without much Knowlage about all this it's an realy nice opurtunity to get such an Device making all that for you (not used such a Device so not sure how easey it realy is).
But you need to pay a Price for that and stik with it how it is or what kind off updates are comming from Developer over Time.

For me i payed for now without Sepaker:

Softwarebased DSP with DAC's (2940€):
RME HDSPe AES 900€
TASCAM Based AES Cable 140€
PC around 1000€ (used parts i had already liying around, Processor, RAM and PSU)
8x SMSL SU-2 DAC 900€ (3 of them i bought for first tests so far, measured Syncronisation or posible Drifting and so on, works fine so far)

HYPEX Amps (2939€):
7x NC122mp 240€
https://www.soundimports.eu/de/nc12...eHcgsUiFLjp3w2Xf8saCQjtopfnCKSckaAqDhEALw_wcB
Alternative 399€ all inclusive:
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/powe...tereo-ncore-nc122mp-2x125w-4-ohm-p-12756.html

2x NC250mp 214€
https://www.soundimports.eu/de/nc25...eHcgsUiFLjp3w2Xf8saCQjtopfnCKSckaAqDhEALw_wcB
Alternative 379€ all inclusive:
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/powe...-mono-ncore-nc250mp-1x250w-4-ohm-p-14445.html

6x Evaluation Boards for first 2x3 Way Setup Test 58€
https://www.soundimports.eu/de/hype...eHcgsUiFLjp3w2Xf8saCQjtopfnCKSckaAqDhEALw_wcB
AMP enclosures (China) around 69€ for one Amp (CNC work by my own)

DIY HDMI to 4x AES Extractor (LPCM) around 200 - 300€ (work in Progress, Stereo works great already )

Will be replaced in the Future with (for ATMOS Decoding):
ARVUS h2-4D 5k around or
Hyperion DPR-16 5k around or
Nuprime HX16-AES 3k to 5k nort sure for now, is on developement.

 

[etc6849]

Not sure I've seen a 7 way speaker. I know the CI can handle 4-way quad amping plus subs, so essentially a 5 way speaker design. It is very versatile. Not sure there's a limit on sub channels, I guess 32 lol. You just tell it how many speakers you have and the type? You define your speaker layout, then use a routing layer that lets you mix and match Dante, AES or analog as you desire. Not many processors can do that to my knowledge.

The ARVUS is $5k for 16 channels, but it didn't look versatile at all, and the info was very lacking. I almost bought that instead, but for another $5k I got a CI with a lower channel count, and chose to buy licenses later as needed. The speaker remapping and other DSP features make the CI a better over all deal if you just need 10-12 channels, but of course it's more money, but it's also way more powerful DSP wise.

Has it FIR Filtering and how long the max internal tap number is???
Can you Setup, let say 7x2 Way (7 x 2 Channels) and 2 Subwoofer (2 Channels) crossover to get 7.2 full aktive Surround Speaker Setup with it?

 

[Frunse]

Not sure I've seen a 7 way speaker. I know the CI can handle 4-way quad amping plus subs, so essentially a 5 way speaker design. It is very versatile. Not sure there's a limit on sub channels, I guess 32 lol. You just tell it how many speakers you have and the type? You define your speaker layout, then use a routing layer that lets you mix and match Dante, AES or analog as you desire. Not many processors can do that to my knowledge.

The ARVUS is $5k for 16 channels, but it didn't look versatile at all, and the info was very lacking. I almost bought that instead, but for another $5k I got a CI with a lower channel count, and chose to buy licenses later as needed. The speaker remapping and other DSP features make the CI a better over all deal if you just need 10-12 channels, but of course it's more money, but it's also way more powerful DSP wise.

I dont ask something about 7way i asked about 7x 2-Way for 7.2 Setup Surround (7 SPEAKER 2-WAY)

And i need to use FIR Filter so is it capabel to do so or i still need to use CamillaDSP for my aktive Speaker Setup afterwards with an bunch of DAC'S and Amps like i do right now to reach what i want?

 

[etc6849]

No worries my friend. I still don't understand why you are asking about can it do 7.2, but of course it can do 7.2. You can assign the subs however you want to whichever speakers you want. You can even have as many independent groups of subs you want (like left subs and right subs) assigned to whichever speakers you want...

It can do x.y.z where x,y,z are integers equal to or greater than 0, but x+y+z must be equal to or less than the number channels you purchase.

Trinov also corrects for any phase rotation from the filter selected for any bass management (aka crossing to the subs), despite bass management occurring AFTER room optimization. This is noted here, but most certainly they kept this feature in the CI as well:

Trinnov | Trinnov to release a major software update for the Altitude

Trinnov will release a major software update for the Altitude platform bringing significant improvements to the acclaimed Optimizer technology

www.trinnov.com

"Enhanced Subwoofer Alignment

One of the more significant refinements in this firmware revision is improved Bass Management Delay Alignment. We have significantly improved the way our bass management time aligns each subwoofer, taking into account the exact characteristics of the selected bass management filters. This setting uses a computational algorithm that takes just a few moments to calculate."

I dont ask something about 7way i asked about 7x 2-Way for 7.2 Setup Surround (7 SPEAKER 2-WAY)

It doesn't do FIR filters for speaker crossovers. However, the crossovers for bi/tri/quad amping are upstream and before the final room correction/optimization which uses FIR and/or IIR (you get to define which), so any phase rotation will be fixed. Like you, I'm used to FIR as that's what the Xilica XD4080's offer, but I'm not sure it matters as much if FIR filters are applied later to correct phase issues.

It also does all filtering at different sample rates as needed. It doesn't change sample rate internally, it keeps the sample rate as is. Not sure if this matters, but it's a lot better than AVRs and AVPs costing 1/10th as much lol.

FYI, you can learn more here: https://kb.trinnov.com/en/knowledge-base/active-crossover-calibration

 

[Frunse]

• Adds an option to reduce Pre-Ringing of FIR filters
• Improves the calibration of Active Crossovers

Sounds interesting also different Target curves aviable now.

Probably the Best Processor Out there, and i wish i wonn in an Lottery ... till than i will follow my own route to reach something like this for half the Price at maximum.

Thank you for all the Information Dude!

That what i feared no FIR Crossover Filter possible only IIR like on all other Processors ;( FIR is only used for Roomcorrection, i guess, afterwards:



Or may be this Filter are recreated with FIR not sure about, but it looks like normal IIR Filters

So i stay with CamillaDSP possebilitys and Build my System around that like i start doing some time ago, still an Journey to go the whole way

 

[PGAMiami]

Your musings parallel mine. I simply moved an AES-59 Tascam (8 channel, in/out) cable from my Hapi II to the AES/EBU output of the CI for the AES/EBU output from JRiver. With the Hapi, the two channels of output for Ls/Rs were routed (in Aneman) to channels 7/8. With the CI, the same two channels were specified as 15/16.
(My other channels, at present, run through the CI's balanced analog outputs via a standard analog/Tascam DB25 snake.)

Apologies in advance if this question is redundant, but I’m a bit confused. My understanding then is that a standard db25 to 8 male xlr wired with 110ohm cable using the Tascam pin assignments should work fine for BOTH analogue out and AES out. Main difference is that for analogue connectors 1-8 are each for one analogue channel and for digital connectors 1-8 are each for AES streams 1-8, which in turn are for channels 1-16.

 

[jhenderson0107]

Apologies in advance if this question is redundant, but I’m a bit confused. My understanding then is that a standard db25 to 8 male xlr wired with 110ohm cable using the Tascam pin assignments should work fine for BOTH analogue out and AES out. Main difference is that for analogue connectors 1-8 are each for one analogue channel and for digital connectors 1-8 are each for AES streams 1-8, which in turn are for channels 1-16.

You are correct.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Apologies in advance if this question is redundant, but I’m a bit confused. My understanding then is that a standard db25 to 8 male xlr wired with 110ohm cable using the Tascam pin assignments should work fine for BOTH analogue out and AES out. Main difference is that for analogue connectors 1-8 are each for one analogue channel and for digital connectors 1-8 are each for AES streams 1-8, which in turn are for channels 1-16.

You are correct. I was merely pointing out that it was trivial to simply transfer my db25/XLR snakes from the Hapi to the Trinnov. The only accomodation made was to select the proper channels in the CI setup.

 

[darth]

Does anyone have trinnov contacts? And can ping them to just update their docs to make it less confusing for the rest of us

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Does anyone have trinnov contacts? And can ping them to just update their docs to make it less confusing for the rest of us

Believe me, I've been trying.

 

[etc6849]

One would think they'd have a manual for the AltitudeCI given the price. A lot of great info is on their website though.

No idea why they can't put it all in one place like I don't know, an instruction manual lol.

I use duckduckgo to search (Google search sucks now days), just append site:trinnov.com to the search.

If you're really brave, you can download all the PDFs from Trinnov's Google Drive folders and upload them to a project folder for your favorite AI to read for you and answer questions from, just force it to cite it's source.

Also, tons of knowledge base articles though that aren't in PDF form on trinnov.com. I'm considering just storing a backup of the webiste just to get all the info locally. Pretty ridiculous.

DuckDuckGo (first link gets what you want...):

Google search (sucks and is useless now, in fact it doesn't even return the kb articles like wth?!?):

Believe me, I've been trying.

 

[PGAMiami]

You are correct. I was merely pointing out that it was trivial to simply transfer my db25/XLR snakes from the Hapi to the Trinnov. The only accomodation made was to select the proper channels in the CI setup.

I’ve used these folks below to have more conventional custom cables made. They do very nice work at a reasonable price, Probably will use them now so they can make a couple custom db25 cables for me. I don’t expect I’ll hear any differences, but I hope these will help clean up the spaghetti behind my equipment. I only have two two channel DACs that will connect to the AL CI, so my AES breakout cable will be a snake made with Mogami 110ohm cable and only four male xlrs, each connected to AES 1-4. This leaves two spares in case I want more DACs at some stage. For analogue I’ll have a 5 foot custom snake that has a 20” fan out. This will connect neatly to my three AHB2 amps and also my four subs via the existing XLR that reach my cabinet. Navigating their website takes some effort. The analogue snakes are under specialty snakes 8 pairs. The AES cables are in another section that is for digital and video cables.

Cables - Event Horizon & Services

Event Horizon & Services offers custom built top quality cables with lots of options. Cables

eventhorizon-srv.com

 

[darth]

I have used proaudiola for similar cabling, the AES db25 110ohm snakes. They take annoyingly long tho

 

[etc6849]

The rest of my faceplates came in... Kinda sucks I have to make 36 more cables. I have some serious first world problems.

 

[Frunse]

Yeah thast a lot off Money ! 15x 2300€

https://www.thomann.de/de/benchmark...UtNb3pC0LYAjujVe1SlxVeFripc1Wl-AaArJvEALw_wcB

I still need 2 more to go for 16 Channels but still below 1000 Bucks LOOOL.

 

[patoulol]

If you are ever in the US, stop by for a listen. The Trinnov AltitudeCI really brought my system up that last few percent, and is some fantastic engineering.


Yep. You can just faintly hear the PC when the graphics card is at full power. I still use the Nvidia 2080 Ti for MadVR, and it does an outstanding job. If I ever get into gaming, I have plenty of thermal headroom and will probably upgrade the card, but space is a little tight!

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nice methodology for isolating the noise source

doing the loopback test with the RME alone is exactly the right way to eliminate any doubt between the Trinnov and the capture chain

good reminder too that spurs at -175 ,,,-180 dBFS are so far down in the noise floor that they’re basically academic at this point

though its interesting to see that dithering still had a visible effect.

also appreciated that you posted the full firmware changelog instead of just saying “it’s buggy”

that list of known issues (especially around Xovers/aES) is genuinely useful for anyone hesitating to update to 2.1.2

 

[etc6849]

Oh nice. Those are perfectly fine if they fit your over all gain structure. The used DAC3 B's were 55-60% cheaper than that, but wow, tariffs and VAT must really hurt overseas sales for Benchmark.

Yeah thast a lot off Money ! 15x 2300€

https://www.thomann.de/de/benchmark...UtNb3pC0LYAjujVe1SlxVeFripc1Wl-AaArJvEALw_wcB

I still need 2 more to go for 16 Channels but still below 1000 Bucks LOOOL.

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[Frunse]

Oh nice. Those are perfectly fine if they fit your over all gain structure. The used DAC3 B's were 55-60% cheaper than that, but wow, tariffs and VAT must really hurt overseas sales for Benchmark.

I have tested them already with my Hypex Amps (XLR in, Speaker 4 Ohm) and they was loud enough so far.

I have also only an smal Room (20m²), sitting may be 2-3 M in Front of the Main Speaker, also not my own House so can't play to loud without getting some Problems or discusions with my Naighbors LOOOL.



HYPEX Amp Gain 25.5dB
DAC has 4,7V rms max on XLR

Hypex Input Sensetivity:


So 1,17 Vrms needed for 125W on 4Ohm