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OP
- Thread Starter
- #42
No worries, have yet to see a thread that did not wander off, and it is nice to know folk have options.
Since we're off-topic anyway, at least until I or others have more Trinnov content, if anybody wants a good overview and fairly in-depth tutorial about using DSP for room correction (etc.), then Mitch's book is a must-have. It is not a hand-waving 3-page handout, it is for those who really want to dig deep and get the most out of their systems.
IMO - Don
OP
- Thread Starter
- #43
Yes.
Sure, I would also expect them to be similar to what Olli posted. But I'm asking becuase the difference between beige and green curve wouldn't really make me "floored".
I don't see how decay time would differ significantly over the similar FR. It is dictated by room excited by speaker, so if FR is similar decay time should also be.
Room modes are min phase.
edit:
So I do not really see how excess phase correction is of any significant use correcting room modes.
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If you only use 2ch, does that allocate the unused channels, giving you 2048?
I just watched Audioholic’s video on the flagship RBH tower speaker, which comes in passive or fully active (Marani crossover/DSP & Pascal amps), and the active system is 8ch at 1024 but he said you can do 2ch only at 4096 (If you didn’t have the subwoofers that’s 4 channels unused).
A book that's being pushed that's not the Toole Bible , a refreshing change
It's a "Gospel of Mitcho", which didn't make it to the New Testament, but still very worth reading.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #53
Finally (!) got my SDP-75 set up and running. The manual needs work but the unit is very impressive. John Schuermann helped and also pinged Harman to get the unit updated for me. I need to set up some time with John or a Harman calibrator to tweak the settings. I wish they would just publish the tweaks -- some of us can probably follow directions.
I have piddled with some of the advanced optimizer settings just for fun though the Wizard got pretty close. Which reminds me, the Wizard is way cool and walks you through the steps to set it up without needing to wade through the manual (though it helps), but it is mentioned no place in the manual! I was clicking on the icons in the GUI and found it.
I was somewhat disappointed to find it takes an on-site visit for them to set up SFM; I have enough channels so each sub (4) has its own so thought I could do it in the unit, but a factory calibrator has to be on site to enable and set up SFM. It's currently $5k USD for the visit and you can't schedule it even if you have the cash on hand (I don't) due to the COVID-19 lockdown.
At least they updated to 4.2.15.1 so I have the Harman anechoic data for my speakers and was able to set the Harman target curve. Kevin K (not KV, different Kevin) worked late last Friday to make that happen -- I didn't give the public IP address (analog guy, not a network guy), the it wasn't on his "master list" so he had to loop in engineering to do the update.
Edit: Per John, if you use Synthesis amps (with DSP), you can take measurements, Harman can crunch, and you can enter the settings into the amps. My amps are conventional analog so not an option. Or miniDSP or subs with DSP/PEQ. My subs have analog PEQ so might work but would be an iterative process without fine parameter control.
I made a few tweaks based on what I have read here and there, such as limiting correction to 250 Hz, and with and without letting it correct first reflections. I saved their default (Wizard) cal and a couple of tweaked versions. The position graph is pretty neat; mine were actually almost dead-on with respect to symmetry though my sides are rather forward (room limitations). I spent some time adjusting my speaker positions today just for grins, pulling the L/R a little forward and out a bit (they are about spot-on with the recommended positions now) and moving the surrounds a little forward (had to move some shelves) so they are about +/-60 degrees (about where I wanted them, best I can do in this room, and they were a little too forward before at +/-50 degrees). It sounds pretty good but I've almost no listening time so far.
Among things I wish it had were more trigger outputs (fortunately I had an Emotiva trigger expansion box and couple of Y cables), a front panel USB jack, and a universal shock mount or at least swivel mic adapter for the mic (it wouldn't work with my boom and I don't have a shock mount that will fit it -- ordered a cheap one from Amazon to try). And for minor nits, since they pulled the remapping section from the manual the book mark is missing in the ToC, and the page numbers after that are missing. The manual is an interesting mix of info, not a lot of detail in some places and leaves out some basic info (like to load the mic cal just plug in the USB stick), and the section order is "interesting" (maybe just not what I expected, a personal thing).
On the plus side there wasn't much written about video pass-through but it just worked for me. The cable box and Oppo are doing fine, and 4K HDR passed through no problem. And so far it has been very reliable in linking HDMI and so forth, a welcome change (though my XMC-1 has been doing OK since the last FW update).
Looking forward to dialing it in! - Don
I was somewhat disappointed to find it takes an on-site visit for them to set up SFM; I have enough channels so each sub (4) has its own so thought I could do it in the unit, but a factory calibrator has to be on site to enable and set up SFM. It's currently $5k USD for the visit and you can't schedule it even if you have the cash on hand (I don't) due to the COVID-19 lockdown.
Edit: Per John, if you use Synthesis amps (with DSP), you can take measurements, Harman can crunch, and you can enter the settings into the amps. My amps are conventional analog so not an option. Or miniDSP or subs with DSP/PEQ. My subs have analog PEQ so might work but would be an iterative process without fine parameter control.
I made a few tweaks based on what I have read here and there, such as limiting correction to 250 Hz, and with and without letting it correct first reflections. I saved their default (Wizard) cal and a couple of tweaked versions. The position graph is pretty neat; mine were actually almost dead-on with respect to symmetry though my sides are rather forward (room limitations). I spent some time adjusting my speaker positions today just for grins, pulling the L/R a little forward and out a bit (they are about spot-on with the recommended positions now) and moving the surrounds a little forward (had to move some shelves) so they are about +/-60 degrees (about where I wanted them, best I can do in this room, and they were a little too forward before at +/-50 degrees). It sounds pretty good but I've almost no listening time so far.
Among things I wish it had were more trigger outputs (fortunately I had an Emotiva trigger expansion box and couple of Y cables), a front panel USB jack, and a universal shock mount or at least swivel mic adapter for the mic (it wouldn't work with my boom and I don't have a shock mount that will fit it -- ordered a cheap one from Amazon to try). And for minor nits, since they pulled the remapping section from the manual the book mark is missing in the ToC, and the page numbers after that are missing. The manual is an interesting mix of info, not a lot of detail in some places and leaves out some basic info (like to load the mic cal just plug in the USB stick), and the section order is "interesting" (maybe just not what I expected, a personal thing).
On the plus side there wasn't much written about video pass-through but it just worked for me. The cable box and Oppo are doing fine, and 4K HDR passed through no problem. And so far it has been very reliable in linking HDMI and so forth, a welcome change (though my XMC-1 has been doing OK since the last FW update).
Looking forward to dialing it in! - Don
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Um, yikes. That seems like a crazy amount of money for a calibration visit for a processor that already costs this much...
OP
- Thread Starter
- #56
That is for an on-site visit, two days, for essentially a full-blown professional setup and calibration of the system. Your dealer will do a "basic" setup including normal calibration and Harman tweaks for you and that is probably all most folk ever do. It is the same as having a pro come in and calibrate your system for you no matter the brand; probably more prevalent in the high-end custom installation world. Ironically I used to do that back when I was in the biz, ca. 40 years ago, but from the other (customer) side it seems like a lot of money! There are third-party calibrators as well; I suspect costs are similar. When I was consulting, a couple of days including travel was in that ballpark so it's not really out of line, but not in my budget right now.
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OP
- Thread Starter
- #57
Completely agree but no, would likely be one or the other, though I would love to compare. Maybe when I retire...
OP
- Thread Starter
- #58
Update: I started playing with some of the Advanced Optimizer settings, extending FIR length (time), increasing resolution (defaults to 1/3 octave, what's up with that?), extending LF compensation to 10 Hz and cutting off compensation at 250 Hz, all based on stuff I have read here and elsewhere plus info from John (dealer). Not sure exactly what the octave settings mean in their implementation, but piddled with 1/6 and 1/12 octave settings for fun (you change it in two places; display resolution, and the actual filter bandwidth). I also tried turning early reflection compensation on and off. With it off, the impulse response is not nearly as clean, but I am not sure which is better. They are different when switching back and forth but it'll be a while before I have enough listening to get a subjective feel. I also moved my speakers around so changed several variables at once.
Having so many presets is pretty nice; I can make major and minor tweaks and switch back and forth to compare. It takes a second or two to switch so is not seamless but pretty close.
Having so many presets is pretty nice; I can make major and minor tweaks and switch back and forth to compare. It takes a second or two to switch so is not seamless but pretty close.
Leave it there, it sounds better.
Go to System Setup and use setting “Light”. It switches instantly, but you have to go back to normal and change a preset if you want to make adjustments.
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