Trinnov Altitude 16 Review (AV Processor)

[peng]

I see what you're saying "I happened to find more high quality recording contents from available 24bit/192 kHz files" - so the these uniquely mastered recordings are not available in lower resolution files but can only be read as 24bit/192 kHz files?

Not exactly, I do have quite a few CD resolution files that have better SQ/recording/mastering quality than some of my 24/192 and DSD256 ones. It is more about the odds than in absolute sense, and that's just my own experience.

 

[Costas EAR]

There is no problem playing high resolution files with altitude 16, in fact not only 2 channel 24/192 files, but also blueray audio disks with immersive music at 192 each channel.

I haven't found any high resolution file that trinnov could not reproduce.

As media player, I use an OPPO 203 (hdmi) and a Nvidia shield (hdmi). Everything is working perfect, including roon with multichannel music, qubuz and Tidal with dolby atmos music. Everything works.

 

[dualazmak]

I see what you're saying "I happened to find more high quality recording contents from available 24bit/192 kHz files" - so the these uniquely mastered recordings are not available in lower resolution files but can only be read as 24bit/192 kHz files?

Not exactly, I do have quite a few CD resolution files that have better SQ/recording/mastering quality than some of my 24/192 and DSD256 ones. It is more about the odds than in absolute sense, and that's just my own experience.

Although it looks you two are going a little bit out of the scope of this amirm's thread on Trinnov Altitude 16, just for your reference, today I posted this message which would be somewhat interesting and valuable for you,,, regarding some objectively measured 192 kHz 24 bit wonderful tracks containing "real music signals" up to ca. 25 kHz to 35 kHz.

 

[Spocko]

How about actually answering my question? What does it do that Emotiva can't at 1/3 the price?

I'll list a few unique reasons that Emotiva does not come close to the Trinnov for my use case (everybody has a use case, you buy what you need) - and these unique qualities extend to the limitations of any processor under $10,000.

1. Object Viewer - Absolutely critical for my reviews of immersive audio in movies/music. We are visual animals and this truly helps understand how much is happening above/around the MLP. No other processor, not Emotiva not StormAudio can do this nor will they be able to do this because it's software based processing that requires a PC to do this in real time - which the Trinnov is.
2. Remapping Software and 3D Triangulation Microphone - I will be reviewing both Auro3D and Atmos, and their respective upmixing algorithms of 5.1 content - to that end my speaker arrangement must be a compromised "unified layout" that is not ideal to either but "close enough". The Trinnov remapping software was designed for this situation, specifically, my 4 overhead Atmos channels are also Auro height channels and positioning them for the former excludes optimal playback of the latter. However, these differences are fully resolved of any compromises by the Optimizer Microphone for true triangulation that drives the accuracy of its remapping algorithm, adjusting more accurately for MLP and speaker placement than a single microphone ever can - more data points means better precision. In Trinnov's own marketing speak: "The 3D microphone uses four mic elements in a precise tetrahedral arrangement. Each capsule is individually calibrated at the factory (±0.1 dB from 20 Hz to 24 kHz). As each speaker is measured, the resulting sound waves pass through this array of microphones, hitting each one at a slightly different time. Based on this timing, it triangulates the location of the speaker from which the sound arrived. By testing each speaker in turn, Trinnov build a three-dimensional map of where the speakers are relative to the mic (which is placed at the main listening position)." This is a core strength of the Trinnov that requires this special microphone and the software to do it.
3. Remote Installation & Troubleshooting - When working with an installer, wouldn't it be easy to let him do all the work helping you setup your processor? So I'll just quote @Matthew J Poes from a post above regarding the ease with which he sets up Trinnov for clients: "I set them up from anywhere in the world... can log into the device and manage it from anywhere. Even my phone. When it comes to customer service on custom installs, this is a big deal. Some others have this ability too, but not the cheaper ones. I am working with an installer in Israel and we have a client with a Trinnov processor. I am currently redoing the setup to incorporate a more complex bass management arrangement. I can do it from here in Florida. No problem. Minimal work on the part of the client. The most he has to do is move a mic around for me." So no, you cannot plug your Emotiva into the Internet and let somebody else do most of the work.
4. Active Crossovers for Direct Driver Amplification - If you have speakers like the Bryston, PAP or Procella that allows you to directly power each driver with an amplifier, maybe "exotic" triode tube amps for your horn tweeters and massive Class D for your 8" woofers, only the Trinnov allows you to set up the necessary crossover implementation to integrate 2 completely different amplifiers. Let's say I want use a pair of Pure Audio Project Open Baffle Duet 15 speakers which have the Voxativ 1.6 coaxial driver above and 15" driver below - I would prefer to use small wattage tube amplifier for the Voxativ and a robust Class-A for the 15" woofer below - only the Trinnov can be the active crossover that independently manages these disparate drivers so that I can have a room curve EQ setting optimized for stereo listening without a subwoofer, and one setting for home theater use when a subwoofer is added to the mix. Emotiva cannot do this.
5. Modular Software Platform - Emotiva's Dirac implementation is layered on top of a dedicated decoding chip which may have some minor firmware updates but you're pretty much stuck with that version - for example it could never magically add an entirely new format like IMAX Enhanced if it wasn't already there. Trinnov on the other hand can update its software limited only by their creativity, so can easily add IMAX Enhanced or DTS:X or Atmos Next Gen because they are software developers licensed to apply the source code at the software level to the processor. Emotiva is limited to buying whatever is off the shelf from Texas Instruments and do nothing more to this chip. Being software based means that they can over a weekend, decide to add a cool new feature like Object Viewer so we can see where the audio effects are supposed to be in your room (yes, it was developed in a weekend by an enterprising Trinnov engineer) and now has become one of Trinnov's most popular features. Being a flexible software platform means that it's open to customer suggestions for improvement and update. Emotiva on the other hand cannot improve anything without Texas Instruments designing an entirely new chip to be sold to everybody else - so if only Emotiva customers want this feature? It's unlikely to happen because TI will charge Emotiva way too much for a one-off chip. For example, if Dirac is not properly calibrating Atmos - it's not Emotiva's fault and their hands are tied, I would have to reach out to Dirac, but because Dirac is not an end-licensee of Atmos there's not much Dirac can do to figure out what's wrong whereas Trinnov engineers can trouble shoot their implementation of Atmos at the source code level - and this is why Trinnov is so expensive - you are paying for an entire software engineering team that Emotiva does not have at their disposal.

This is what's important to me; however, I'm sure there may be a few more things I've missed that Emotiva will never offer simply because it's too expensive to offer it for their price point.

 

[dlinsley]

Joking aside, I assume it's possible to use this thing as a pure digital processor and just send digital out to a proper high-quality multichannel dac, like the Okto Dac8?

Ravenna/AES67 coming as a free upgrade this year: Trinnov | Trinnov Audio unveils upcoming Altitude Platform changes in 2021
The A16 already has the dedicated network ports (in addition to the one on the motherboard).

 

[Spocko]

Ravenna/AES67 coming as a free upgrade this year: Trinnov | Trinnov Audio unveils upcoming Altitude Platform changes in 2021
The A16 already has the dedicated network ports (in addition to the one on the motherboard).

And there are plug-n-play active speakers ready to go from Genelec (8430a more for nearfield studio mixing) and HEDD

EDIT: I would like to add - this is pretty incredible that it's a "free" upgrade because I cannot imagine any other processor adding AES67 support to a platform via software/firmware if it wasn't designed from the ground up to support AES67 at the start.

 

[Tovarich007]

This is what's important to me; however, I'm sure there may be a few more things I've missed that Emotiva will never offer simply because it's too expensive to offer it for their price point.

The calibration tool used by Trinnov is more sophisticated and widely ranked as the top among the professionnal market. And also, I'll say there is a difference in reliability and quality of service offered by the company, at least in Europe - I can't speak for North America, maybe Emotiva has a top service there too, and I don't say that Emotiva products are not reliable, they seem to be well done and built anyhow - but I am sure that Trinnov products are reliable and that this company is quite serious, and this has a price when you're in the market for a top product. Of course, 17 K€ is quite a lot of money, high end products are always overpriced anyway even in the pro domain, but a lot of products come with more unjustified price tags than Trinnov.

Strange that few potential consumers seem to have a strong concern with reliability and quality of service in the hifi and video world. These criterias count among the most important when one have to make a purchase decision, IMO. When you buy a car, you don't want only a beautiful, comfortable, sophisticated, powerful one (if needed), but you wish also a car from a maker with a good service network and a strong reputation for reliability.

When you plan to buy an expensive speaker, amplifier or AV processor, don't you want the same ? Don't you think this is way more relevant than minor non audible differences in measurements or esthetics ?

 

[Spocko]

The calibration tool used by Trinnov is more sophisticated and widely ranked as the top among the professionnal market. And also, I'll say there is a difference in reliability and quality of service offered by the company, at least in Europe - I can't speak for North America, maybe Emotiva has a top service there too, and I don't say that Emotiva products are not reliable, they seem to be well done and built anyhow - but I am sure that Trinnov products are reliable and that this company is quite serious, and this has a price when you're in the market for a top product. Of course, 17 K€ is quite a lot of money, high end products are always overpriced anyway even in the pro domain, but a lot of products come with more unjustified price tags than Trinnov.

Strange that few potential consumers seem to have a strong concern with reliability and quality of service in the hifi and video world. These criterias count among the most important when one have to make a purchase decision, IMO. When you buy a car, you don't want only a beautiful, comfortable, sophisticated, powerful one (if needed), but you wish also a car from a maker with a good service network and a strong reputation for reliability.

When you plan to buy an expensive speaker, amplifier or AV processor, don't you want the same ? Don't you think this is way more relevant than minor non audible differences in measurements or esthetics ?

Spot on - the issue is that most consumers just assume when they buy an AVR, they're left to their own devices to figure things out - yes, even if you buy a $4,000 Denon flagship receiver, you're pretty much on your own. They don't realize that Trinnov strongly encourages you to call them directly and their employees will literally be on the phone with you until it's all figured out - this is what costs so much money! Support from the actual individuals that are working at Trinnov day to day answering your phone call on a weekend - Seriously.

 

[voodooless]

Strange that few potential consumers seem to have a strong concern with reliability and quality of service in the hifi and video world. These criterias count among the most important when one have to make a purchase decision, IMO.

Sure, if you spend 17k on a processor alone. If you spend a 10th of that, not so much.

 

[Spocko]

Sure, if you spend 17k on a processor alone. If you spend a 10th of that, not so much.

Agreed - but as you said, 1/10 of the price is one thing but at what price point should such reliability and service be expected? With Yamaha now charging $3,000 for their just released flagship RX-A8A, we don't expect this premium piece to receive any better support than their $500 receiver. So this begs the question: at what price point should consumers expect concierge service from the manufacturer?

 

[voodooless]

at what price point should consumers expect concierge service from the manufacturer?

Very good point.. I have no idea… personally, seeing the state of these devices last time I bought one, I’m will not be buying one for a while.. And I’m talking about the more budget friendly versions

 

[RUR]

....only the Trinnov allows you to set up the necessary crossover implementation to integrate 2 completely different amplifiers.

Or 3, or 4.

 

[mant]

There is also in the lower price range just as good, if not better service than Trinnov, company Nubert is an example of this.

 

[Billy Budapest]

Agreed - but as you said, 1/10 of the price is one thing but at what price point should such reliability and service be expected? With Yamaha now charging $3,000 for their just released flagship RX-A8A, we don't expect this premium piece to receive any better support than their $500 receiver. So this begs the question: at what price point should consumers expect concierge service from the manufacturer?

I get that, but what I don’t get is why people would want concierge service. If you are as “into” home theater as to even know what Trinnov is, you are probably “into” setting up your home theater rather than relying on others to do it for you.

That’s what I don’t understand—home theater enthusiasts who don’t want to know anything about how to operate their equipment, and instead pay an installer to remotely administer it. Talk about a first-world problem,

 

[ShadowFiend]

Many people who bought Trinnov's products are non-technical people. They only want great home cinema to enjoy movie or music with their family/friend rather than tinkering with their gears. So concierge service is so important, as paying money to have someone assist you and get great result in limited time is far better than try to do something you don't have any knowledge. That is like many people pay for a plumber to fix their problem. Trinnov is no different on that sense

 

[Kal Rubinson]

If you are as “into” home theater as to even know what Trinnov is, you are probably “into” setting up your home theater rather than relying on others to do it for you.

Perhaps but I found my first experience with Trinnov daunting because of the myriad of options (and, also, because it was a long time ago when it was less friendly). Going through that original setup with on-line, live support was not only efficient but allowed me to ask "why" at many times. There's a lot to learn and this facility changes the slope of the learning curve.

 

[Descartes]

Ok so here is one question if Trinnov was $5,000 would they take over the market?

Trinnov is priced just for the top 1% of Home Theaters enthousiaste!

 

[Balle Clorin]

Testing this device as aDAC only without exploring the Optimizer room correction , is like A car revirew only testing the ashtray in a Ferrari ..
Take A look at a more in depth review use google translate if needed

https://www.lowbeats.de/test-trinnov-amethyst-digitale-traumvorstufe-mit-profi-einmessung/2/

 

[DonH56]

The Wizard makes running the Optimizer much closer to a typical AVR/AVP. Then you can tweak from there to your heart's content. And a little more...

Going from an Emotiva XMC-1 to a JBL SDP-75 (Trinnov Altitude 32) I did not notice any loss in sound quality. The SDP-75 sounds better to me but I expect that's more about the room correction and such than DAC and analog signal chain. The SDP-75's reliability, features, and overall performance is much higher, including such things as more frequent updates for newer codecs. The flexibility of the unit in terms of presets, speaker setup, room correction, internal ability to handle bass management and crossovers in a variety of ways, is pretty amazing. That is what sets it apart IME/IMO.

I appreciate the test results and am not really surprised. I hoped they'd be better, but as an overall package I am happy. Doubt I could hear the difference going more than 100 dB SINAD, and in the real world source and speakers are orders of magnitude higher in distortion. Amir tests basic performance; asking him to wring out all the features is beyond the scope of the reviews IMO. Technical performance is but one criteria in evaluating a component for purchase and, since so many components are so good, actually a minor criteria most of the time.

 

[Mkaram]

It was 2V but the 8500h has only unbalanced outputs. So that is consistent with 4V balanced (2V per pin) measurement.

Thank you for clarifying!