Trinnov Altitude 16 Review (AV Processor)

[dlaloum]

Gene DellaSalla and Mathew Poes spent long hours trying to get Gene’s Storm’s Dirac ART setup and never reached satisfaction.

Their major outstanding issue is frequencies below 20Hz... so a bit of an edge case

 

[dlaloum]

My understanding (if memory serves) is Gene had full range speakers including subs in is main speakers. I believe there are them he speaks of… Active, full range, with subs. I can see that it might be quite tricky. I know he was working on it quite a while ago. Not sure if they tried more recently or not.

RBH Sound SVTRS Active Speaker System Review

Reviewing the RBH Sound Limited Edition SVTRS active speaker system has been a transformative experience. Few consumer loudspeakers can match its dynamics, bass extension, transparency and overall fidelity.

www.audioholics.com

Yes he commented on issues with earlier beta versions of ART having integration issues with full range base layer speakers - I can personally vouch for that having been resolved! - but he also had an issue with the infrasonics, right now ART basically ignores or rolls off everything below 20Hz... and I think that Gene is waiting for this to be resolved adequately before revisiting ART...

I have no subs or speakers with substantive output below 20Hz... and realistically, the majority of subs out there really don't do anything below 20Hz - so from a market perspective this is very much and edge case.

The type of people that have Trinnov processors on the other hand are definitely not the mass market - and they are smack bang in the middle of the market segment that is highly likely to have infrasonic capable subs - so for this demographic, the infrasonic limitation is a potential big deal.

 

[Andysu]

what' it guy from dolby labs , oh don't see him anymore promoting an old outdated flawed system . strange in the video shows him reacting but , again atmos is flawed it supporys no below multi cluster below surround , just a waste of my listening time ,. listening to same boring speaker layout that hasn't changed much in decades , ( you all should know the whole backstory ) fed up mention it , stuff you dolby labs and your atmos

 

[Oddball]

Gene is the raging Audioholic. Very knowledgeable of course, but then also tends to be too picky on selective topics. For some reason his beef with Dirac seems to go deep, although he passes a lots of marketing stuff on his site. I guess Dirac never offered a rebate?

There is a review published on his site that talks more about what ART can accomplish, even with infrasonic subs that I understand Gene now runs. There is a small 18hz dip, but yeah, nothing is really perfect .

Focal 1000 Utopia IWLCR & IWSUB Speaker System Review

Focal's 1000 Utopia and Astral 16 deliver reference grade performance from an in-wall speaker. Check out our exclusive, in-depth, Focal 1000 Series Theater installation and a sneak peek at Dirac ART.

www.audioholics.com

 

[Oddball]

what' it guy from dolby labs , oh don't see him anymore promoting an old outdated flawed system . strange in the video shows him reacting but , again atmos is flawed it supporys no below multi cluster below surround , just a waste of my listening time ,. listening to same boring speaker layout that hasn't changed much in decades , ( you all should know the whole backstory ) fed up mention it , stuff you dolby labs and your atmos

View attachment 504799

Recommend watching e.g. The Masters of Air battles are really well mastered and if you listen to them at reference level will definitely give you a ride that Atmos was supposed to give. Too bad that is not the case with mass release of Atmos titles.

 

[huri87]

I don't think you will go wrong with either processor as an upgrade over your Emotiva.

Regarding room correction, even as recently as a few years ago I would agree with you about manually making your corrections, but both of these processors will do a better job that you can do yourself. The Storm with ART is going to be better than the older Trinnov which I assume does not have the newer Waveforming tech.

Hi, its not me who make the corrections, it is a proffessional.

 

[Mr. Widget]

Hi, its not me who make the corrections, it is a proffessional.

That's fine, but I stand by the statement.

Assuming your "professional" knows how to properly use Dirac or Trinnov, you owe it to yourself to have him also use Dirac ART or Trinnov Waveforming and compare the results with his own corrections. I think you will be surprised with the results.

 

[huri87]

I'm with @Golfx - why spend the money on either processor if you're going to strictly do all your own room correction.

I'll say that I had in the past tried everything possible that I could think of with REW to fully optimize my system and never came close to the sound quality of the Trinnov.

I have no experience with the StormAudio but I will say I love the Trinnov which was transformative for my system for both traditional stereo audio as well as for my 7.2.4 ATMOS setup.

If you're buying a Trinnov from a trusted person, I'd have no concerns at all. You may want to check your trusted person if you can demo the Trinnov for a weekend. Just do a simple automated Trinnov calibration and listen to see what you think. There is unlimited flexibility to do anything you want in terms of tweaking.

I believe neither of these proccessors will make difference over the Emotiva, regardless of room corrections? Isn’t?

 

[huri87]

That's fine, but I stand by the statement.

Assuming your "professional" knows how to properly use Dirac or Trinnov, you owe it to yourself to have him also use Dirac ART or Trinnov Waveforming and compare the results with his own corrections. I think you will be surprised with the results.

In this regard things are going toward the Trinnov I guess?

 

[Fidji]

Hello,

I’m trying to decide which processor to buy as an upgrade from my Emotiva RMC-1L, and I’d appreciate your advice.

System overview

• Amplification: Powersoft Mezzo (direct to speakers)
• Front stage: Grimani Systems Rixos M behind the screen
• Surround/height: RBH Sound, all wall-mounted
• Room: Large living room, professionally treated (absorbers, diffusers, etc.)
• Calibration approach: I do not use processor room correction. I calibrate using REW + microphone measurements, applying corrections directly in the amps/DSP.

Options
I have the opportunity to purchase, at a similar price:

1. StormAudio ISP Core 16 (new/very recent), or
2. Trinnov Altitude 16 (7 years old, demo unit from a trusted person), with:
   • HDMI 2.1 upgrade
   • Battery replacement
   • 5-year warranty extension from Trinnov

Question
Given my setup and calibration workflow, which platform would you recommend and why?
Also, are there any specific risks or checks you would suggest for a 7-year-old Altitude 16 (even with the upgrades and extended warranty)?

Technically - you are getting 20Ch of processing with 16CH of Analogue and 4CH of Digital Out and you will have some limited AoIP functionality with FW update in 2026. Refurbished unit is the same as new - you keep just the old case basically and all the inside parts get new. Functionality will be the same as in 2026 unit - Waveforming, new FW compatible etc. I have also 2017 unit, with warranty until 2029, I have latest HDMI card, ESS DACs and i am running latest firmware.

If you would still like to check the history [e.g. whether this is really demo unit and not second-hand trade-in or smth] just drop an email to Trinnov support. One thing that I would look at older units is memory, as this does not get upgraded automatically, You want to look at least at 4GB.

Financially - if you are able to get similar price for both Trinnov and Storm - this is a no brainer - re-sell value of Altitude will be significantly higher, compared to Storm. And actually Optimizer is better than Dirac.

I believe neither of these proccessors will make difference over the Emotiva, regardless of room corrections? Isn’t?

Trinnov will, if you use it properly.

 

[Golfx]

I believe neither of these proccessors will make difference over the Emotiva, regardless of room corrections? Isn’t?

Well then you will save a lot of money in this hobby.

 

[zorax2]

I believe neither of these proccessors will make difference over the Emotiva, regardless of room corrections? Isn’t?

My experience only:

After years of using REW and Audyssey on Denon / Marantz processors, my first Trinnov Optimizer calibration was a very large improvement to my ears. At the time, I asked my audiophile teenage son to take a listen and I asked him to listen and describe whether he could hear differences (non-blind since he knew I was getting a Trinnov) and he was able to clearly hear and describe things that I heard as well as some things I didn't hear (or likely couldn't hear due to age related hearing changes).

I did more of my own Trinnov calibrations with each getting better as I learned more about how to use features of the Trinnov to improve my calibrations after reading the Trinnov manual and following recommendations on forums like this and others.

A couple years ago, I was able to use a professional calibrator to take things to yet another level - for both two channel critical listening and multi-channel audio.

Try "Framed by Funk" by Spoonbill as a two-channel test of your system. Take a listen. Do you hear 3-D audio in your listening space?

My REW and Audyssey calibrated systems were decent and I was happy with it having not experienced anything better as ignorance is bliss. The Trinnov Optimizer took performance to a whole new level with my two channel listening taking imaging to a whole new level with sounds feeling from Framed by Funk, as example, like the the sounds were moving throughout my listening area as if it were my Dolby Atmos demonstration disc. My jaw drops every time I play this test track especially with guests who can see my seven bed layer and 4 top speakers and think the sound is coming from all of the speakers. I then have them walk to each speaker to listen and they hear no sound and ask "How can that be?". I then have them listen to my mains and they are absolutely amazed and ask how it is possible for two speakers to do that. Note: I do have a "smallish" home theater that has good bass trapping, velvet covering the entry door and a carpeted floor.

I would have never had near that sound quality with REW and Audyssey - not even close. I don't know what the secret sauce of the Trinnov Optimizer is (nor how the Storm would compare) but I did achieve audio nirvana in a way I never thought possible.

I also agree with @Fidji - the Trinnov will have far better resale.

Here is my best recommendation: Buy the Trinnov now before you lose out on such a great opportunity. Play around with it for a month or three and make your decision. I see a fair number of used Altitudes in the $12,000 to $13,000 range. Ask yourself if it's worth it to you at the risk of losing $500 to $1,000 to re-sell it used if it isn't for you? I think you'll love it and you're out very little relatively speaking if you are already looking at that price range. I'll say the Trinnov has saved me thousands of dollars over the years in AVR upgrades.

Finally, take a look at Amir's review of the Emotiva vs. the Trinnov. There are significant differences in the signal path and noise levels alone with the Emotiva that you'll never correct no matter how good you are with the best REW calibration. You'll definitely find either the Storm or Trinnov to be a much better choice.

 

[huri87]

thanks to all it seems that more are toward the Trinnov. I have no doubts of the seller, is someone I bought everything I have so far.
Decision is to go with Trinnov. Thanks!

 

[Fidji]

I have no subs or speakers with substantive output below 20Hz... and realistically, the majority of subs out there really don't do anything below 20Hz - so from a market perspective this is very much and edge case.

The type of people that have Trinnov processors on the other hand are definitely not the mass market - and they are smack bang in the middle of the market segment that is highly likely to have infrasonic capable subs - so for this demographic, the infrasonic limitation is a potential big deal.

"Trinnov people" and their decadent tastes... ;-) Actually, infrasonics in HT and multichannel is one of those things you don't realize you're missing until you hear it done properly for the first time. After that, there’s no going back—you either fix the itch or you spend the rest of your life knowing something is missing.

It’s really the difference between merely "watching" and "being there." The real world doesn't roll off at 20Hz. Trust me, I’ve had folks from the "lowest note on a bass is 41Hz" and "we only hear down to 20Hz anyway" camps come to my place, and they always leave saying, "Now I get what you were talking about." You might not hear 110dB at 12Hz, but you definitely know it’s there. And it isn't just for movies—classical music and concerts finally get a proper soundstage size. It’s easily another 30% of immersion on top. I even have a preset where everything is identical except for Trinnov Pressurisation; with it off, the system rolls off at 20Hz, but with it on, it goes down to 8Hz and differences are more than obvious on suitable material.

So, to sum it up: infrasonics is a noble pursuit for any real enthusiast ;-)

Getting there isn't actually that hard or crazy expensive—if you're already looking at Trinnov territory, you can afford to do it right. You can go the direct infra-sub path with something like a 32-inch Ascendo and be done with it. You LPF it around 25Hz, so you still need your regular subs, but once it's dialed in professionally, it’s the best option.

Or, you can go the multisub route. In my case, to hit 110dB at 10Hz in a concrete room with low leakage, I need to be capable of 119dB at 40Hz. My system does 131dB, so there’s plenty of headroom since I usually watch below reference anyway. I use eight 18-inch sealed, custom made subs with B&C drivers.

I think 18s are the sweet spot for a standard installation; once you move to 21s, you really have to design the whole room around them. 12s or 15s are just too small—you’d need 13 of the 15-inch subs or 24 of the 12s to get the same output, which just isn't practical. Eight 18s is manageable, especially if you lift half of them off the floor to run Waveforming.

On another note, I think people confuse cause and effect here. Trinnov systems perform so well not because of some "trinnov magic," but because they’re usually used in well-designed, dedicated rooms with high-quality gear. Trinnov just provides the tweaks you need to let the rest of the system reach its full potential.
With the Altitude CI completing the portfolio, I don't see much reason to buy Storm anymore—unless you're dealing with serious compromises where ART is the only fix, like in a living room or open-plan space. But in those cases, you probably aren't aiming for top-tier performance anyway.
Storm is now basically Marantz AV10 with some more EQ flexibility for 3x the money and with blackbox Dirac DRC.

 

[PGAMiami]

"Trinnov people" and their decadent tastes... ;-) Actually, infrasonics in HT and multichannel is one of those things you don't realize you're missing until you hear it done properly for the first time. After that, there’s no going back—you either fix the itch or you spend the rest of your life knowing something is missing.

It’s really the difference between merely "watching" and "being there." The real world doesn't roll off at 20Hz. Trust me, I’ve had folks from the "lowest note on a bass is 41Hz" and "we only hear down to 20Hz anyway" camps come to my place, and they always leave saying, "Now I get what you were talking about." You might not hear 110dB at 12Hz, but you definitely know it’s there. And it isn't just for movies—classical music and concerts finally get a proper soundstage size. It’s easily another 30% of immersion on top. I even have a preset where everything is identical except for Trinnov Pressurisation; with it off, the system rolls off at 20Hz, but with it on, it goes down to 8Hz and differences are more than obvious on suitable material.

So, to sum it up: infrasonics is a noble pursuit for any real enthusiast ;-)

Getting there isn't actually that hard or crazy expensive—if you're already looking at Trinnov territory, you can afford to do it right. You can go the direct infra-sub path with something like a 32-inch Ascendo and be done with it. You LPF it around 25Hz, so you still need your regular subs, but once it's dialed in professionally, it’s the best option.

Or, you can go the multisub route. In my case, to hit 110dB at 10Hz in a concrete room with low leakage, I need to be capable of 119dB at 40Hz. My system does 131dB, so there’s plenty of headroom since I usually watch below reference anyway. I use eight 18-inch sealed, custom made subs with B&C drivers.

I think 18s are the sweet spot for a standard installation; once you move to 21s, you really have to design the whole room around them. 12s or 15s are just too small—you’d need 13 of the 15-inch subs or 24 of the 12s to get the same output, which just isn't practical. Eight 18s is manageable, especially if you lift half of them off the floor to run Waveforming.

On another note, I think people confuse cause and effect here. Trinnov systems perform so well not because of some "trinnov magic," but because they’re usually used in well-designed, dedicated rooms with high-quality gear. Trinnov just provides the tweaks you need to let the rest of the system reach its full potential.
With the Altitude CI completing the portfolio, I don't see much reason to buy Storm anymore—unless you're dealing with serious compromises where ART is the only fix, like in a living room or open-plan space. But in those cases, you probably aren't aiming for top-tier performance anyway.
Storm is now basically Marantz AV10 with some more EQ flexibility for 3x the money and with blackbox Dirac DRC.

Do you believe the studio monitors that were used to master these recordings you’re hearing were capable of infrasonic reproduction? Maybe what is below 20hz in many cases is just unintentionally rumble that gives the illusion of space? Just a thought

 

[Fidji]

Do you believe the studio monitors that were used to master these recordings you’re hearing were capable of infrasonic reproduction? Maybe what is below 20hz in many cases is just unintentionally rumble that gives the illusion of space? Just a thought

Answer is simple - it does not matter. Limit is not monitoring chain, but “capture chain”. If you have microphones or synthesizers able to go into infrasonics - you do not care about monitoring limits per se. Even with monitoring chain that just clears Dolby thresholds for Atmos [31Hz FR] you are able to “see” or “hear” infrasonics or lowest frequencies in digital domain and master them without having 21in woofers in the room.

There was a good discussion with industry insiders on infrasonics and bass neutering [which is, sadly, more rule than exception, see 4K reissue of Master&Commander] on avsforum, look for posts from guy with handle FilmMixer [how inventive ‘-)] and subsequent discussions in 9.1.6 Atmos Activity thread.

There is also second angle re “infrasonics” - and that is overall LFE performance - once you move from Level 1 [based on CEDIIA RP22] you will have some infrasonics capabilities [with all the caveats re ported subs, power leakege etc]. Actually most of the systems I have heard, they were not able to deliver 20Hz at reference level.

You can add headroom management on top, where you easily remove 6-9dB of subwoofer headroom by DRC, bass management requires another 4dB, if you have system like Waveforming/DBA/ART you need to add another 5dB to get back to optimal bass energy levels or to manage your house curve and most of those subs have been already DSP’ed to death to get couple of additional Hz into specs.

System capable of single digit FR will hit 25Hz explosion in completely different way compared to 2 12 in subs. In terms of bass capabilities there is only one truth - Overkill is the bare expected minimum.

 

[PGAMiami]

Answer is simple - it does not matter. Limit is not monitoring chain, but “capture chain”. If you have microphones or synthesizers able to go into infrasonics - you do not care about monitoring limits per se. Even with monitoring chain that just clears Dolby thresholds for Atmos [31Hz FR] you are able to “see” or “hear” infrasonics or lowest frequencies in digital domain and master them without having 21in woofers in the room.

There was a good discussion with industry insiders on infrasonics and bass neutering [which is, sadly, more rule than exception, see 4K reissue of Master&Commander] on avsforum, look for posts from guy with handle FilmMixer [how inventive ‘-)] and subsequent discussions in 9.1.6 Atmos Activity thread.

There is also second angle re “infrasonics” - and that is overall LFE performance - once you move from Level 1 [based on CEDIIA RP22] you will have some infrasonics capabilities [with all the caveats re ported subs, power leakege etc]. Actually most of the systems I have heard, they were not able to deliver 20Hz at reference level.

You can add headroom management on top, where you easily remove 6-9dB of subwoofer headroom by DRC, bass management requires another 4dB, if you have system like Waveforming/DBA/ART you need to add another 5dB to get back to optimal bass energy levels or to manage your house curve and most of those subs have been already DSP’ed to death to get couple of additional Hz into specs.

System capable of single digit FR will hit 25Hz explosion in completely different way compared to 2 12 in subs. In terms of bass capabilities there is only one truth - Overkill is the bare expected minimum.

View attachment 510548View attachment 510549Aren’t these two different questions? One is how much real information there is below 20hz that we were intended to hear? I would say for music not much. Music is my primary focus. I would think the answer is different for special effects. The other question is how real is the bandwidth at 20hz for most subs and speakers. Most do very poorly that low with very high distortion and compression. I agree a driver that can do 10hz is much more like to do 20hz at a high SPL and lower distortion. But that may come at compromises regarding size and perhaps spl and fidelity at higher frequencies where much of the music lives.

 

[murl]

I know this isn't an altitude CI thread but thought it may be the best place to get some advice. I just ran optimizer on my newly installed CI with wave forming. It sucked all of the life out of my subs. I know it is designed to do this some but I like a bit more bass in my music. I am running 7.4.4. Three questions before I run optimizer again next week after building my sub stands for proper sub positioning vertically.

1. I chose manual mode to set all speaker levels to 75dB prior to running the calibration for each position. It only goes to +/-12. This is not enough for my subs. Is there somewhere else in the software I can change output level for the channels rather than the small slider in the calibration window? For example my front subs natively play at ~92dB with pink noise where the remaining speakers play at 73-80dB. I think there is a menu somewhere pre-calibration I can just remove ~17dB from the subs prior to calibration? Will this help?

2. After running optimizer and wave forming if I want to add bass back in is the best way to do it with a target curve? Is there a better way?

3. I have Dutch and Dutch 8Cs as my mains. The crossover is set to LR at 80hZ. Is this optimal or should I try to crossover the 8Cs a little lower?

4. If I want to listen to 2ch plus subs how can I make this work? Is creating a new preset the best/easiest way to do it?

Thank you in advance.

 

[darth]

I know this isn't an altitude CI thread but thought it may be the best place to get some advice. I just ran optimizer on my newly installed CI with wave forming. It sucked all of the life out of my subs. I know it is designed to do this some but I like a bit more bass in my music. I am running 7.4.4. Three questions before I run optimizer again next week after building my sub stands for proper sub positioning vertically.

You could also ask on avsforum if you don't get an answer here

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/trinnov-altitudeci-official-thread.3333448/page-15?post_id=64502474#post-64502474

Out of curiosity what setup are you running? AES? Analog?

 

[Golfx]

You could also ask on avsforum if you don't get an answer here

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/trinnov-altitudeci-official-thread.3333448/page-15?post_id=64502474#post-64502474

Out of curiosity what setup are you running? AES? Analog?

I agree with this. There are four major trinnov calibrators who frequent that thread and give great advice. BTW you can get your bass back.