Trinnov Altitude 16 Review (AV Processor)

[voodooless]

Agreed that CamilaDSP is easier, but I am still not seeing a net positive running the Arvus with a PC.

Arvus AES out to a pair of MiniDSP DDRC-88D to a AES67 encoder might work, but now you lose DLBC and you have to ask if the Marantz AV10 or HTP-1 is just a better option.

Not unless we get some serious community efforts to deliver us a properly working one-click-room correction that rivals Dirac/DLBC. I'm sure it's doable, but...

The concept of Audiolens giving higher precision correction only works if the system is configured that way.

I'm sure CamillaDSP will match the precision, it's using 64-bit math by default.

I love homebrew *stuff* and I was a very early adopter of things like HTPCs in the original DVD era, but gosh — for home theater enthusiasts, hard to beat the HTP-1 even with the DAC/ADC into AOIP or the StormAudio ISP Evo if you want a refined setup.

Trying to build an AVR around a PC is not very practical these days, also given how much value a relatively basic AVR will already give you. It also means little community effort goes into creating the needed tooling to make all the processing and setup easier. The simple fact is that all the codecs are licensed and that it is near to impossible to extract the audio streams from HDMI. All of this means that the companies that do manage to add the extra features and deliver on the additional processing, can ask for a huge premium. That doesn't mean the price is fair or good value though.

 

[Littletycoon]

So all you need is a manufacturing process, quality assurance, a staff, employee benefits plan, distributors, dealers, R&D division, customer service, marketing division, etc etc etc

Everybody has that to a certain extent, it is about choices in those areas. A dealer model in home audio is ridiculously expensive as volumes are low.

 

[Golfx]

Everybody has that to a certain extent, it is about choices in those areas. A dealer model in home audio is ridiculously expensive as volumes are low.

Oh and then there is the small company internet direct model that you pay ahead of time and wait and wait and wait weeks-months for it to be assembled. Very small staff and non existent R&D.

 

[Littletycoon]

Oh and then there is the small company internet direct model that you pay ahead of time and wait and wait and wait weeks-months for it to be assembled. Very small staff and non existent R&D.

You apparently dislike disruptors and prefer to spend big bucks for solutions like trinnov (and may I add kaleidascape as an another example). You're perfectly entitled to do that, just don't expect others to be "in shock and awe".

 

[Golfx]

You apparently dislike disruptors and prefer to spend big bucks for solutions like trinnov (and may I add kaleidascape as an another example). You're perfectly entitled to do that, just don't expect others to be "in shock and awe".

Those are two companies with quality staffs that brought innovation and competence to the AV market. And they both get excellent third party reviews.

Oh and what is your definition of disruptor?

 

[Littletycoon]

Oh and what is your definition of disruptor?

I'm just following your words in this: Internet direct, pay ahead and wait for months, very small staff and apparently no R&D. That's apparently no good vs established business models at all, makes these firms disruptors then by doing things differently.

 

[Golfx]

I'm just following your words in this: Internet direct, pay ahead and wait for months, very small staff and apparently no R&D. That's apparently no good vs established business models at all, makes these firms disruptors then by doing things differently.

Or a poor business model usually 100% dependent on one person to keep the company going.

 

[Descartes]

Trinnov is ridiculously expensive for what it is remember their software used to be included in very cheap Sherwood AVR, now they have gone the LVMH way overpriced for the top 1%

 

[GXAlan]

Trinnov is ridiculously expensive for what it is remember their software used to be included in very cheap Sherwood AVR, now they have gone the LVMH way overpriced for the top 1%

Having owned the R972 and now the Altitude32, the Sherwood R972 had a diminished version of the Optimizer algorithms in terms of resolution and precision. It remains a superb 7.1 AVR in many cases though! The HDMI board universally fails from heat and it lacks HDMI ARC but these can be mitigated with cooling and using external boxes.

Agree that the people who benefit most from 3D remapping are ordinary people who need receivers at a lower price point.

That said, the Sherwood was $1800 in 2010 dollars

Music in the Round #42

An audio/video receiver in Stereophile? Heresy!

www.stereophile.com

So it would be a $2500 class 7.1 AVR today which isn’t “very cheap” but certainly more approachable.

Using the R972 put me on the path toward the current Altitudes. The Yamaha’s came close for remapping but faltered for EQ. I haven’t used the new Sony’s

 

[voodooless]

Agree that the people who benefit most from 3D remapping are ordinary people who need receivers at a lower price point.

This! I do not understand why so few regular AVRs seem to have this. I think only Sony and Yamaha do this nowadays (only counting the "popular", "normal-budget" brands). Especially in normal living rooms where you cannot arbitrarily place speakers, this is really a great benefit.

 

[Littletycoon]

Or a poor business model usually 100% dependent on one person to keep the company going.

Maybe, both Steve Jobs and Bill Gates also started small, so who knows what may come out of it. Anyways, it does not give me the feeling i'm wasting money

 

[GXAlan]

Anyways, it does not give me the feeling i'm wasting money

The question, which is a fair one, is your time. If it takes you 10 hours to set something up instead of 1 hour, does that matter? Maybe those 10 hours are satisfying and enjoyable and it’s not really an opportunity cost.

Maybe it takes 40 hours of extra setup, it’s better to do an extra week of work and use the salary you earned that week to buy something that is more turnkey.

I agree that Trinnov “sucks” because you are prepaying for flagship features and flagship customer service turnaround times. The Nova line approaches more reasonable price points but it still lacks the immersive decoders. A revised Sherwood r972 with a modern HDMI decoder and a limit to 5.1.2 would help a lot of people on a budget without hurting the Altitude line. 7.1.4 is a sweet spot and if they made the budget version 7.1.4, you would see a lot of lost sales of the Altitude.

But if you want end game and are passionate about movies and can save the money, Trinnov is great.*. (All the HDMI CEC issues are worth considering though.)

 

[Golfx]

Maybe, both Steve Jobs and Bill Gates also started small, so who knows what may come out of it. Anyways, it does not give me the feeling i'm wasting money

Oh and I am typing this on a new IPAD pro and I have a Falcon Northwest Desktop upstairs. So I am happy they did.

 

[Littletycoon]

Oh and I am typing this on a new IPAD pro and I have a Falcon Northwest Desktop upstairs. So I am happy they did.

Sorry i do aliexpress Android tablets and self assembled desktop with virtually the same components thus performance (not going to argue about pc case preferences) against a fraction of the price. This brings us back to square one that there are/will be solutions around the corner with comparable performance as a Trinnov at a fraction of the price. But this is something you obviously don't want to hear (i may not want to hear it either if I owned a Trinnov, but i don't).

 

[Littletycoon]

The question, which is a fair one, is your time. If it takes you 10 hours to set something up instead of 1 hour, does that matter? Maybe those 10 hours are satisfying and enjoyable and it’s not really an opportunity cost.

Maybe it takes 40 hours of extra setup, it’s better to do an extra week of work and use the salary you earned that week to buy something that is more turnkey.

I agree that Trinnov “sucks” because you are prepaying for flagship features and flagship customer service turnaround times. The Nova line approaches more reasonable price points but it still lacks the immersive decoders. A revised Sherwood r972 with a modern HDMI decoder and a limit to 5.1.2 would help a lot of people on a budget without hurting the Altitude line. 7.1.4 is a sweet spot and if they made the budget version 7.1.4, you would see a lot of lost sales of the Altitude.

But if you want end game and are passionate about movies and can save the money, Trinnov is great.*. (All the HDMI CEC issues are worth considering though.)

I absolutely don't say trinnov sucks, in my perception it's top of the bill in room correction.
It's exactly the opportunity cost. It'll take 40 hours extra for something different but close (no speaker remapping), at usd 100,- per hour it does not close the opportunity cost gap, even with 100 hours it does not close the gap.

 

[Zooqu1ko]

Arvus H2-4D multichannel Dolby Atmos digital processor Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements

www.stereophile.com

Digitally it is good. I guess Genelec GLM plus Arvus would be a really potent setup!

GLM is rather limited even in comparison to plain Dirac on a MiniDSP, much less DLBC, ART or a Trinnov. I‘m using a Minidsp DDRC 22D with my Genelec 8240s, and it has significantly improved the correction. The difference may be smaller with 8351 or similar speakers with more PEQ channels.

 

[Zooqu1ko]

[…]Nothing below $27k does 20+ channels.

$17k

 

[DonH56]

Sorry i do aliexpress Android tablets and self assembled desktop with virtually the same components thus performance (not going to argue about pc case preferences) against a fraction of the price. This brings us back to square one that there are/will be solutions around the corner with comparable performance as a Trinnov at a fraction of the price. But this is something you obviously don't want to hear (i may not want to hear it either if I owned a Trinnov, but i don't).

Trinnov hardware is not terribly impressive. It's all about the software that they have developed over many years, offering a powerful Optimizer and very extensive, flexible user control of the processing that exceeds other solutions. I am not sure that kind of R&D from others is "around the corner". There are programs that offer powerful processing capability, such as Accurate, but they are much lower in breadth and scope than Trinnov's solution. As so often happens these days, it's the SW, not the HW, that sets it apart.

 

[Magnus]

$17k

Sorry. Typing on phones touch screens is a nightmare IMO. It's so easy to bump the key next to it while staring at my fingers to try and prevent hist that, it's shocking how many typos are still up there. Numbers are easier to miss, unfortunately.

It's marked only one day old and this site won't even let me edit it. Yes, leave errors forever. That would seem to be Amir's policy in general, after all (see HTP-1 unchanged rating despite fixes).

 

[Golfx]

Sorry i do aliexpress Android tablets and self assembled desktop with virtually the same components thus performance (not going to argue about pc case preferences) against a fraction of the price. This brings us back to square one that there are/will be solutions around the corner with comparable performance as a Trinnov at a fraction of the price. But this is something you obviously don't want to hear (i may not want to hear it either if I owned a Trinnov, but i don't).

Oh I was complementing your examples Steve Jobs=apple=IPAD pro and Bill Gates=microsoft=desktop Falcon Northwest.