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Trinnov Altitude 16 Review (AV Processor)

hmt

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Talking about Klippel. Is the NFS worth 100.000$ of "value" (whatever that is)?
 

RichB

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I have an Emotiva RMC-1 and Denon 3700 they measure comparably here.
Sure, the 3700 (used in preamp mode) is reliable in that I do not need to restart it. The menu system is faster was well.

I cannot compare them in the same room except for this. Dolby surround upmixing of 2.0 content is superb on the RMC-1.
I never PL2 liked doing this prior to the RMC-1. I thought this may be due to the improved algorithm but it is not, at least, not completely.

The Dolby upmixer is pretty bad on the 3700. All high frequencies are lost, there is barely anything but mid-frequencies, with very little coming from the surrounds.
IME, there more to a processor than SINAD.

SINAD is a good measurement for base level performance and processors are not used to such insolent measurements by upstarts :)

I cannot say if the Trinnov is worth the money, but sometimes I get tempted...
Can get a 7.2 version for 1/3 the price? :)

- Rich
 

GXAlan

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Can get a 7.2 version for 1/3 the price? :)

- Rich
Sherwood R972. 100% of them will eventually have their HDMI boards go bad. I wonder if opening it up and adding heatsinks or a fan would work…
 

Dj7675

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The Dolby upmixer is pretty bad on the 3700. All high frequencies are lost, there is barely anything but mid-frequencies, with very little coming from the surrounds.
This is surprising and something that should be able to be verified by measurements with REW. Have you confirmed this with measurements?
 

Bugal1998

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Edit: The cable I believe I need is a DMX512 cable. Looking to validate per original post.

Has anyone needed to extended the cable on the 3d measuring mic to reach the MLP or other seating areas? If so, what cable did you use, and are you aware of a maximum recommended length? It seems any XLR-5 cable (with the appropriate connectors) would work, but I'd like to confirm if anyone has experience.

The dealer I purchased from didn't know the answer.

Thanks!
 
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Golfx

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I must admit I am confused by a lot of the discussion here. Someone thinks the Trinnov is too expensive for them. Good. All is well. Other people think the cost/value equation is ok because of the things the Trinnov does, the updates, the support and so forth. Also good. And.... ?

For me, the re-mapping amongst other things might be worth the outlay. I don't know. I've not tried one in my room - yet. But I will try one when I am ready to upgrade. If there is a difference provided by the Trinnov magic sauce sufficient to justify the price difference to me, I will buy it. If there is not, then I won't.

If I decide to buy then the production cost of the hardware is immaterial to me. I'll be paying for the Trinnov magic sauce, which is the software, and I'd be judging that the software is worth the cost, with the support and upgradeability and so forth being a good bonus. And vice versa if I decide not to buy.

Anything else that factors into the price equation would also be immaterial to my decision - for example it might be necessary for Trinnov to charge $17k at retail to make the product worth making given the volumes, dealer margins and so on. I don't know if this is the case, and I don't care. The thing is either worth it to me because it does something that I personally value $10k or whatever better than anything else, or it doesn't.

The debate about price vs. value is circular and not solveable isn't it? I've even gone round in circles making the same point in this single post!

Personally, I'm more interested in explanations (and if possible comparative measurements) to help inform me of how a Trinnov could help in my far from ideal room.
One thing that helped me to decide on my purchase is that Trinnov customer service and your dealer can remotely access your trinnov, review your setup, read your logs and them remotely change/fix your issues including a one off software update just for your problem. Also can assist with setup and room correction. I get about a half day turn around on email answers.

I also got a dedicated one hour video tour of my trinnov while they were dialed into to it making my settings on the fly. Gotta love that.
 
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Adi777

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What is the maximum home theater system that Trinnov 16 or JBL Synthesis SDP-75-16 will support?
9.1.6 it's maximum? What, if I want 4 subwoofers? Can you get around it somehow?
 

MarcR

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The Altitude 16 offers 20 channels if you connect the two digital outs to DACs, so it accommodates 9.4.6 with one channel to spare.
 

Golfx

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@Golfx How big is your cinema room?
I have one of the two story dens open to the kitchen on the back. main area is 5500 cubic feet plus kitchen behind
 

DonH56

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What is the maximum home theater system that Trinnov 16 or JBL Synthesis SDP-75-16 will support?
9.1.6 it's maximum? What, if I want 4 subwoofers? Can you get around it somehow?
16 analog + 4 digital channels, 20 total, for the Altitude 16. The Altitude 16 is not expandable AFAIK, so 16 analog and 20 total is it. The JBL Synthesis version is the SDP-65.

The JBL Synthesis SDP-75 is based upon the (expandable) Altitude 32 platform and is available from 16 to 32 (edit: 36 now) channels in the box, then you can add another 32 for 64 channels total through an outboard box. I had planned to get an SDP-75 with 16 channels but ended up with 24 channels as a dealer refurb.

That is my memory from when I bought mine about 4 years ago, not sure if that has changed.

To get around the channel limitation, for this or anything, a common solution is to pick up a miniDSP or other external solution that handles the subwoofers, letting it do the integration among subs, then only one AVR/AVP output is needed for all the subs. That is, pick up a four-channel miniDSP unit, connect its input to the AVP, then the four outputs drive your subs. REW, MSO (multi-sub optimizer), or similar (free) SW handles sub integration, then the AVP "sees" just a single subwoofer.

I bought enough channels to handle my four subs (plus four overheads and seven base speakers, 15 total -- for now) and let the SDP-75 handle bass management. I planned to implement Harman's Sound Field Management (SFM) or try MSO but never got around to it. Here is what Trinnov says about their bass management:

The Bass Management solution in the Altitude gives users the most sophisticated tool available for managing low frequencies.

Complete flexibility regarding high and low pass frequencies, filter types and filter slopes is just the beginning. The low frequency content of any channel can be fed to any combination of subwoofers, and there is no limitation to the number of subwoofer channels other than the number of available outputs.

Going further, our unique intermediate bass management system is ideal for immersive systems using smaller height channel speakers. It can redirect low frequencies not just to subwoofers, but from a speaker with limited bass capability to the closest, more-capable speaker, before sending the lowest frequencies to the subs.

HTH - Don
 

Adi777

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Trinnov Altitude 32-16 or JBL Synthesis SDP-75-16? For JBL speakers, but not Synthesis in-wall series - only ceiling, M2 and 708/705.
 

Golfx

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DonH56

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Trinnov Altitude 32-16 or JBL Synthesis SDP-75-16? For JBL speakers, but not Synthesis in-wall series - only ceiling, M2 and 708/705.
That's somewhat subjective. I went with the JBL since I have Revel speakers and it includes PEQ (they call it AEQ) pre-loaded for their speakers. It included some extra-cost features the Trinnov did not have (without paying more), but also eliminated some features (generalized PEQ, speaker position remapping) Harman felt were not useful. I have not missed the missing features in my setup; you still have all the Trinnov processing and flexibility in filters, crossovers, etc. I have spoken with or emailed a couple of people using an SDP-75 with M2s and they are happy with it. Support comes from JBL, but they loop in Trinnov direct if needed, and you get all the Trinnov updates (just got iMAX not too long ago for mine). I do not remember all the research from a few years ago but ultimately decided the SDP-75 was best for me and my Harman speakers; if I had another brand, I might have gone directly with the Trinnov.

I have been told, but have not checked to see, that JBL and Trinnov were aligning their product features and prices. My dealer carries JBL and Trinnov so was in a good position to compare, and I was also influenced by some interaction with both Dr. Toole (who was apparently involved at the time) and some of the Harman people. That said, there are those who feel the loss of PEQ is significant, particularly if you do not own Harman speakers (I know that is not your case). Interestingly, while various forum posts decry the lack, none of the dealers or installers and calibrators with whom I spoke made a big deal of the remapping feature. Most felt it better to choose your main format (Atmos for me) and set up the speakers for it, and preferred physical workarounds to remapping. I do not know, have not heard it, but was told the remapping worked great for smaller listening area and larger rooms, whereas a more modest room with listeners closer to the speakers would benefit less from remapping as it could "mess with" the image across the listening area. Again, I don't have any experience with it. Ultimately I went with the SDP-75.

Note the microphone is very cool, works very well, but is pricey at around $600. Your dealer can set up your unit so you don't have to buy it, but if you like to tweak on your own you'll have to get one (or have a really understanding dealer -- mine is, but I didn't want to impose too much).

FWIWFM - Don
 

FrantzM

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Talking about Klippel. Is the NFS worth 100.000$ of "value" (whatever that is)?
Yes.
Before this NFS, it was necessary to build a large, expensive, so-called anechoic room.. The cost of such are usually in the millions (Plural) of USD. So very few people, enthusiasts or even audio companies could afford these... With the Klippel NFS, that cash outlay provide people with ways to properly measures speakers that provide same results as what could only be obtained after Millions were spent.. and even then...

And let's not even mention the benefits ( I would have used windfalls) the Klippel NFS and people that have invested in acquiring it (Amir, Erin) have brought to us, the enthusiasts...

If this was in jest .. Fine.. Else a poor, uninformed analogy.

Peace.
 

Unground

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Yes.
Before this NFS, it was necessary to build a large, expensive, so-called anechoic room.. The cost of such are usually in the millions (Plural) of USD. So very few people, enthusiasts or even audio companies could afford these... With the Klippel NFS, that cash outlay provide people with ways to properly measures speakers that provide same results as what could only be obtained after Millions were spent.. and even then...

And let's not even mention the benefits ( I would have used windfalls) the Klippel NFS and people that have invested in acquiring it (Amir, Erin) have brought to us, the enthusiasts...

If this was in jest .. Fine.. Else a poor, uninformed analogy.

Peace.
Good explanation but I expect tongue was in cheek. I can't see how an NFS is worth more than $97,569 myself
 

Golfx

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That's somewhat subjective. I went with the JBL since I have Revel speakers and it includes PEQ (they call it AEQ) pre-loaded for their speakers. It included some extra-cost features the Trinnov did not have (without paying more), but also eliminated some features (generalized PEQ, speaker position remapping) Harman felt were not useful. I have not missed the missing features in my setup; you still have all the Trinnov processing and flexibility in filters, crossovers, etc. I have spoken with or emailed a couple of people using an SDP-75 with M2s and they are happy with it. Support comes from JBL, but they loop in Trinnov direct if needed, and you get all the Trinnov updates (just got iMAX not too long ago for mine). I do not remember all the research from a few years ago but ultimately decided the SDP-75 was best for me and my Harman speakers; if I had another brand, I might have gone directly with the Trinnov.

I have been told, but have not checked to see, that JBL and Trinnov were aligning their product features and prices. My dealer carries JBL and Trinnov so was in a good position to compare, and I was also influenced by some interaction with both Dr. Toole (who was apparently involved at the time) and some of the Harman people. That said, there are those who feel the loss of PEQ is significant, particularly if you do not own Harman speakers (I know that is not your case). Interestingly, while various forum posts decry the lack, none of the dealers or installers and calibrators with whom I spoke made a big deal of the remapping feature. Most felt it better to choose your main format (Atmos for me) and set up the speakers for it, and preferred physical workarounds to remapping. I do not know, have not heard it, but was told the remapping worked great for smaller listening area and larger rooms, whereas a more modest room with listeners closer to the speakers would benefit less from remapping as it could "mess with" the image across the listening area. Again, I don't have any experience with it. Ultimately I went with the SDP-75.

Note the microphone is very cool, works very well, but is pricey at around $600. Your dealer can set up your unit so you don't have to buy it, but if you like to tweak on your own you'll have to get one (or have a really understanding dealer -- mine is, but I didn't want to impose too much).

FWIWFM - Don
Regarding 3d remapping. You can use 2d remapping or 3d remapping. Also can decouple your surrounds/rears/back atmos from remapping and just use your LCR + front heights for 3d front remapping. Which is what I use because I have a center speaker mounted high over my TV (I have a fireplace and a seemingly endless supply of toddler grandchildren). The remapping lowers the center speaker sound, virtually of course, to match tweeter level of my LRs.
 

Billy Budapest

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Good explanation but I expect tongue was in cheek. I can't see how an NFS is worth more than $97,569 myself
The Klippel as used by Amir and Erin is for business purposes and its price can be recouped—to a certain extent, at least—by donations, YouTube views, Google ad traffic, etc. That’s not even counting companies like Magico that use it for product development. In other words, it is primarily a business use case.
 

DonH56

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Regarding 3d remapping. You can use 2d remapping or 3d remapping. Also can decouple your surrounds/rears/back atmos from remapping and just use your LCR + front heights for 3d front remapping. Which is what I use because I have a center speaker mounted high over my TV (I have a fireplace and a seemingly endless supply of toddler grandchildren). The remapping lowers the center speaker sound, virtually of course, to match tweeter level of my LRs.
You can do that on your SDP-65/75? I know it is available from Trinnov, but when I got my SDP-75 remapping was not included, and I confess I have not looked for it since.
 
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