What is your take on buying the Trinnov ST2 Pro optimizer and use it for home theater and music on a 7.2 system? I'm thinking that could be a much cheaper investment than an Altitude 16 at 17K. I can get the ST2 for about 5K and add it to a competent AVR controller with Balanced outputs.
-
WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
Trinnov Altitude 16 Review (AV Processor)
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
I would not recommend this. For surround system, go for Altitude 16 or 32. ST2 Pro is fantastic for stereo setup.
- Joined
- May 28, 2020
- Messages
- 1,673
- Likes
- 6,587
For the Maximum Boost setting, how high have some of you gone? I bumped mine up to 10dB, mainly to help get a null for my subwoofer between 70-90Hz up, but was wondering if I can add a bit more.
The sub is a Funk 21.0L....before when I was using Dirac I had a bump in EQ applied internally for the subs DSP along with Dirac adding on top and never had issues.
I am now running the sub flat (no EQ bump per Nathan at Funks recommendation) so wondering if I can get away with adding more boost in the Trinnov
The sub is a Funk 21.0L....before when I was using Dirac I had a bump in EQ applied internally for the subs DSP along with Dirac adding on top and never had issues.
I am now running the sub flat (no EQ bump per Nathan at Funks recommendation) so wondering if I can get away with adding more boost in the Trinnov
Generally you should not try to fill in nulls with EQ boost because it doesn't work (nulls are caused by acoustic cancelation in a standing wave; increasing the output simultaneously increases the cancelation in proportion)... You end up driving excess bass energy into the room, consuming the finite amp capacity and driver excursion/ power handling capacity without getting results. And the excess bass energy sounds terrible elswhere in the room and outside of the room.
I don’t know if this holds 100% true with FIR filters and the Trinnov implementation, but I don't know any reason why it wouldn't.
- Joined
- May 28, 2020
- Messages
- 1,673
- Likes
- 6,587
Yea, I always try to remember this point. Good reminder.
I am using a "house curve" that builds up to 8dB of bass from 20-60Hz (same curve I used with my Dirac receiver) which isn't filling in any nulls (just boosting the output). So the unintended consequence is it allows Dirac to try to add dB to the aforementioned null. I suppose it would be best to only allow 8dB of universal boost to allow the curve to work, while minimizing extra power to the null?
Additionally, if my Front Left and Right speakers have better response from 70-90Hz than the sub, should I set their crossovers lower (currently at 90Hz) to try to make up for the null?
Worth a try. Increasing the number of sources (and their distribution) is one strategy for dealing with a null. If you're also using two subs, you can effectively create a "pseudo-Swarm" 4 sub arrangement - at least at your problem 70-90Hz range.
- Joined
- May 28, 2020
- Messages
- 1,673
- Likes
- 6,587
Just the one sub. Literally zero space in my room for another. Doing what I can with what I have.
To tackle a sub null by using a crossover with my fronts, is a 24dB slope best to get the sub output past the crossover (where the null starts) down quicker?
Dunno, try it. A lot of subs seems to be simple trial and error. If it's possible, I would suggest trying the sub somewhere else than in the front. On the back wall perhaps. Or anywhere asymmetric to the two fronts. Side wall?
Perhaps you could create a Dirac curve that follows the dip created by the null, and boost the rest as much as you need to hit your target curve
Edit: I meant Trinnov room curve
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 28, 2020
- Messages
- 1,673
- Likes
- 6,587
So Antoine at Trinnov graciously accessed my unit remotely and did some tweaks. He dialed in the crossover for the L+R speakers to handle the null of the sub and did a few specific Advanced tweaks to better bump up the boost, along with using the Excursion curve option.
It sounds fantastic.
What truly amazes me is how Trinnov can use just one measurement when there is only a single seat used and make it sound so good. You truly don't need random measurements just to get a good sound like other Room EQ. It dials in the single seat so well.
It sounds fantastic.
What truly amazes me is how Trinnov can use just one measurement when there is only a single seat used and make it sound so good. You truly don't need random measurements just to get a good sound like other Room EQ. It dials in the single seat so well.
Gracious is such a perfect word to describe Trinnov support and in particularly Antoine!
This is only the case when the cancelations are really (infinitely) deep. You can definitely boost a low Q 3-5 dB null.
- Joined
- May 28, 2020
- Messages
- 1,673
- Likes
- 6,587
Whatever voodoo magic Antoine did....wow. It sounds so great, especially the bass even with the sub null.
There is a lot of emphasis on their room correction being great. However, we all know that further tweaking is always required, knowing how I work I spend a full year fine tuning it until every single single song, movie, etc is weighed into the equation so it sounds best over all formats. Unfortunately it takes time but I think the Trinnov will get your closer than most as a starting point from what I hear. That crazy multi tuning fork looking thing that is so expensive apparently does most of the work for you.
Cancelations will never be "really (infinitely) deep" since the walls/floor/ceiling/planet aren't infinitely stiff.
You can certainly fill a low Q dip that isn't due to strong room modes; but in this case he described it as a "null", and he had already "bumped [his EQ] up to 10dB mainly to help" fill the null (per his first post). So he was clearly past the point of filling in a modest dip, and the general guideline on not boosting nulls was applicable; boosting the signal further wasn't likely to yield a satisfactory result. This was validated by the superior solution implemented by Trinnov and the marked improvement in sound that he's now enjoying.
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 28, 2020
- Messages
- 1,673
- Likes
- 6,587
FWIW, Antoine added even more boost than I had...he went up to 12dB (from 20hz to 100hz). He also changed some other advanced settings
Sure, you can boost the low end a LOT if you have the subwoofer headroom to get the overall response you want. And your post indicated the null was filled by adjusting the crossover to the mains, which doesn't sound like he filled the null with EQ boost... Obviously I wasn't there and I'm only basing my comments on the limited information that's been shared.
The main thing is that you found great sound!
You need to use both of the digital outputs, spdif and toslink ,to get all +4 channels , 2 channel / spdif output and 2 channels / toslink so something along the lines of a simple stero DAC with either SPDIF or toslink inputs ant whater output you want XLR/RCA. This is sort of modular in approach, 2 channel DAC modules. If you are using these for extra subs as am I you dont need to go nuts with the $$$ to get good results and in the end Trinnov16 will listen to sub output and adjust accordingly.
Last edited:
I just got my 16 a day or so ago...
The remote device is way too rudimentary. You’re going to need some sort of tablet at the very least for day to day stuff with a laptop or PC for truly sophisticated operations until you have this tweaked just the way you want it.. A staggering amount of configuration can be done through a web based interface with even more advanced options through what amounts to a virtual desktop environment on the Trinnov…they call this VNC. The Altitudes are basically computers, in the computing world Virtual desktops are all over the place. For Windows heads this is basically a remote desktop environment over Ethernet. Mac has a built in VNC client.
It seems to me that Trinnov’s approach is to provide excellent outputs as a foundation and then correct out everything extraneous to that which interferes . The secret sauce to this is the incredible configuration flexibility in correcting the sound. Holy cow the mic they use to listen to your environment has 4 condensers. It looks like R2D2’s exotic boyfriend. And BTW that mic costs more than most of the cheap DACs reviewed on this site.
There is a later post explaining the cost of parts for this Trinnov as being around $2000. I have built a lot of PCs over time. My last one cost about $10K in parts. I don’t get volume pricing, even so with that in mind I would say he’s low by at least half. Also does anyone have any idea what a software project this sophisticated costs to execute? The answer is TONS of MONEY! And if it sounds great it’s all worth it.
I’m looking forward to this one. I’ve purchased my 16 on the strength of lots of superlative reviews from people I trust. Not on the performce data on a single component out of an entire sytem. We’ll see if it works out
Last edited:
Oh trust me they can. You only need them to be infinitely rigid if you’re talking about REFLECTIONS at very low frequencies.
Even few centimetres of concrete can completely reflect a wave at 200Hz.
As for room modes as long as the structure doesn’t leak air that’s enough for really deep nulls depending on where you sit.
Similar threads
