Triangle Borea BR03

[Desmo]

I'am looking for a nice pair of budget bookshelf speakers.

I currently have a pair of Totem Mite speakers. They are great, but I feel I could do better
with a modern speaker and a little bit more low end extension.

Soundstageaccess.com measured the Triangle Borea BR03 speakers.

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153

Sadly I'am a complete noob in reading these measurements without some explanation, so could
someone please fill me in if these measurments are any good and trustworthy?

Thanks in advance!

 

[pozz]

I would skip them. They have both sharp and broad discontinuities in the on-axis frequency response, the latter being more audible, and the off-axis shows similar problems.

• On-axis: Sound directly in front of the speaker. This is the main line in the graph.
• Off-axis: Sound off to the side by steps in degrees. These are the sloping lines.

Ideal is for the response to the completely flat on-axis, and sloping downwards smoothly off-axis.

 

[Deleted member 14468]

Contrary to above statement, I woudn't skip these speakers at all. I'm currently listening to the BR03s -- the EXACT ones measured, as I actually did the measurements -- and they're excellent for the price. I'll just say that the above comments are gross oversimplifications for what to look for in measurements.

Doug Schneider
SoundStage!

 

[pozz]

Contrary to above statement, I woudn't skip these speakers at all. I'm currently listening to the BR03s -- the EXACT ones measured, as I actually did the measurements -- and they're excellent for the price. I'll just say that the above comments are gross oversimplifications for what to look for in measurements.

Doug Schneider
SoundStage!

Please elaborate, if you don't mind.

 

[Deleted member 14468]

Although this also is a grow oversimplification, you can't look at a couple of individual frequency-response graphs and make any meaningful assessment of how a speaker will sound in a room. All the NRC and subsequent Harman research in that vein has been to look at families of curves, which means a lot more measurements and lots and lots of averaging. It's not as simple as looking at the on-axis and one or two off-axis in one direction. You really need dozens of measurements -- and even then, you really have to understand what you're looking at.

Doug Schneider
SoundStage!

 

[QMuse]

Contrary to above statement, I woudn't skip these speakers at all. I'm currently listening to the BR03s -- the EXACT ones measured, as I actually did the measurements -- and they're excellent for the price.
Doug Schneider
SoundStage!

Well, for only a few bucks more one can get Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 which measured far better here.

 

[Haint]

Contrary to above statement, I woudn't skip these speakers at all. I'm currently listening to the BR03s -- the EXACT ones measured, as I actually did the measurements -- and they're excellent for the price. I'll just say that the above comments are gross oversimplifications for what to look for in measurements.

Doug Schneider
SoundStage!

Yes please elaborate, I'm always interested in how to interpret, and what to look for in measurements. At $550/pair, these are in 1:1 direct competition with M16's and DBR62's, and at first blush they don't appear to measure up, but I'm by no means an expert. My advice would have also been to skip them for the aforementioned alternatives, but I'm interested in your thoughts.

 

[Deleted member 14468]

Hi,

I've been measuring speakers for about 20 years and in the last several years I've come to realize that the more I understand about measurement, the less I do. It's not unlike reading, say, an X-ray. Unless you know really what to look for, you can make plenty of false assumptions, as well as completely overlook certain things. Also, you have to take into account price -- and low prices, you have to make many more tradeoffs than at higher prices. So you look at where those tradeoffs have been made.

When I look at these measurements, the first thing my eyes are drawn to is the overall "trend" of the line, both on- and off-axis. As well, I look at the sensitivity, the impedance, the distortion at that certain level, etc.

What I will say is that the Triangle should not simply be dismissed on what's seen. It's a contender that should be listened to -- and I know that because after Diego Estan, our reviewer, reviewed them, I took hold of them to listen because I was intrigued.

Doug Schneider
SoundStage!

 

[Deleted member 14468]

Well, for only a few bucks more one can get Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 which measured far better here.

It measured well, yes, but definitely not what someone would consider textbook ideal. That said, there are some peculiarities in the measurements, but, as I said above, you have to look at the price to understand some tradeoffs made. Once again, I wouldn't dismiss this speaker. But I also wouldn't assume someone would like it more, or less, than the Triangle.

Doug Schneider
SoundStage!

 

[pozz]

@Doug Schneider I don't completely understand your response. You're making generalized, philosophical claims about measurement interpretation and buying decisions as such, but you haven't answered the specifics of why buy or skip the BR03s.

In your measurements I see a port tuned around 90Hz 55Hz. Broad, consistent dip between 100Hz and 700Hz. Sharp dip after 1kHz consistent across all curves (port leakage?). Another broad dip centering on 3kHz (crossover region). From 3kHz to 10kHz on-axis is rising response, that region also maintaining energy disproportionaly off axis. Another very sharp dip around 15kHz with a notable skirt.

Positives are that the curves follow each other well and that the general response, excluding the sharp dip, is pretty even.

All that said, this isn't a speaker I would buy or demo given the alternatives.

 

[bogart]

Although this also is a grow oversimplification, you can't look at a couple of individual frequency-response graphs and make any meaningful assessment of how a speaker will sound in a room. All the NRC and subsequent Harman research in that vein has been to look at families of curves, which means a lot more measurements and lots and lots of averaging. It's not as simple as looking at the on-axis and one or two off-axis in one direction. You really need dozens of measurements -- and even then, you really have to understand what you're looking at.

Doug Schneider
SoundStage!

What you're describing feels like it's referring to the Spinorama charts which include DI and Predicted In-Room response; in short, more measurements and the sophisticated math to integrate them. Is that a fair conclusion, or would you say differently?

 

[gr-e]

In your measurements I see a port tuned around 90Hz

More like 55Hz

 

[QMuse]

It measured well, yes, but definitely not what someone would consider textbook ideal. That said, there are some peculiarities in the measurements, but, as I said above, you have to look at the price to understand some tradeoffs made. Once again, I wouldn't dismiss this speaker. But I also wouldn't assume someone would like it more, or less, than the Triangle.

Doug Schneider
SoundStage!

I didn't say Elac measured textbook ideal - I said it measured better in a more detail measurement then yours and it costs only slightly more than BR03. It is hard to compare your measurements to what NFS does but eyeballing it I doubt it would come close to ELAC if measured with NFS.

 

[pozz]

More like 55Hz

Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 14468]

What you're describing feels like it's referring to the Spinorama charts which include DI and Predicted In-Room response; in short, more measurements and the sophisticated math to integrate them. Is that a fair conclusion, or would you say differently?

Yes.... MANY more measurements -- and the ability to interpret them. That will get you far closer to making a more accurate conclusion. Trying to make judgments with too few measurements is a pitfall many make. In fact, back when we started doing measurements, in 2000, all the designers I talked to gave me this piece of advice -- don't try to glean too much about what the ways something sounds from too few measurements. In fact, that's why I believe in magazines like Stereophile, where the FR measurements are fewer, there is no distortion or compression, they often fail to correlate with what the reviewer heard. Quite simply, they're not working with enough data.

Doug Schneider
SoundStage!

 

[Deleted member 14468]

It is hard to compare your measurements to what NFS does but eyeballing it I doubt it would come close to ELAC if measured with NFS.

You have to ask yourself what "come close" means. Do you mean sound close? Well, NO two sets of speakers come close to sounding the same, so, no they won't.

Doug Schneider
SoundStage!

 

[QMuse]

In fact, that's why I believe in magazines like Stereophile, where the FR measurements are fewer, there is no distortion or compression, they often fail to correlate with what the reviewer heard. Quite simply, they're not working with enough data.

Well, according to Toole it is linear off-axis response that matters, not distortion, and in that context Stereophile provides more measurements than Soundstage!.

 

[bogart]

Yes.... MANY more measurements -- and the ability to interpret them. That will get you far closer to making a more accurate conclusion. Trying to make judgments with too few measurements is a pitfall many make. In fact, back when we started doing measurements, in 2000, all the designers I talked to gave me this piece of advice -- don't try to glean too much about what the ways something sounds from too few measurements. In fact, that's why I believe in magazines like Stereophile, where the FR measurements are fewer, there is no distortion or compression, they often fail to correlate with what the reviewer heard. Quite simply, they're not working with enough data.

Doug Schneider
SoundStage!

Doug, thanks for the thoughtful response. In that vein, then, the Klippel system that Amir uses is doing quite a lot more spatial and frequency measurements to produce the charts and derived information. To your way of thinking, is that data reliable?

 

[QMuse]

You have to ask yourself what "come close" means. Do you mean sound close? Well, NO two sets of speakers come close to sounding the same, so, no they won't.

Doug Schneider
SoundStage!

I meant close in terms of preference rating calculated by method developed by Olive.

 

[pozz]

Well, according to Toole it is linear off-axis response that matters, not distortion, and in that context Stereophile provides more measurements than Soundstage!.

I'd say the SoundStage! measurements are better overall because of their accuracy and consistency of presentation.