Treated vs Untreated room. Measurements, plots and help with REW

[Mawclaw]

Hey guys! This is my first post but I have learned a lot from this forum over the past year! I used the REW for dummies thread and eagerly await part 3. Please tell me if the post is in the right place etc.

So, I recently purchased a full set of Auralex ProPanel ProKit for 200 bucks (Link to treatment solution)
on CL and jammed it in my squarish (12x13x8.5) room. The sound improved so dramatically I could not believe it.
I am in a rental and a small bedroom so setup was not exactly ideal. Did not want to put a shitload of holes in the wall so several panels are on the floor. My speaker placement/setup is also terrible but I have no real choice IMO.

The room sounds much more controlled although more bass absorption is definitely needed. I notice the room has deadened significantly and it sounds different to speak in the room vs other places in the house.

I have a measurement mic and tried to quantify the difference. See the link here for waterfall plots and freq. response. I would appreciate any help on fully understanding my room! I don't really understand all of REW. All plots are 1/24 smoothing.

I ran one test with panels in the room and another with all in the hallway.

https://imgur.com/a/1C18o2z

Gear-
MiniDSP HD DAC
Sansui 9090 - Full recap
A/D/S L1290
Deluxe speaker cables from trashed extension cord
UMIK-1 Calibrated measurement mic

With this room I finally feel that I could upgrade speakers and notice the difference. Looking into powered monitors, Focal Twins, Genelec or ADAM. Also considering DIRAC for EQ if anyone has input? I have not any luck using REW to autogenerate PEQ settings. It sounds grainy?

Is there a link to how to use PEQ responsibly with REW? Especially with no sub.

 

[amirm]

Welcome to the forum. I think you are on a path to make your room too dead. I would not add any more panels.

As for PEQ, it is simple. You have a resonance at 50 hz. Just set a single filter to 50 Hz and play with its Q/width. Pull the level down by a few dB and listen. Should make a big difference.

 

[Daverz]

This tutorial on using the ETC plot in REW to identify early reflections might be helpful:

https://www.gikacoustics.com/unpacking-etc-time-domain-measurements-early-reflections/

 

[Krunok]

Hey guys! This is my first post but I have learned a lot from this forum over the past year! I used the REW for dummies thread and eagerly await part 3. Please tell me if the post is in the right place etc.

So, I recently purchased a full set of Auralex ProPanel ProKit for 200 bucks (Link to treatment solution)
on CL and jammed it in my squarish (12x13x8.5) room. The sound improved so dramatically I could not believe it.
I am in a rental and a small bedroom so setup was not exactly ideal. Did not want to put a shitload of holes in the wall so several panels are on the floor. My speaker placement/setup is also terrible but I have no real choice IMO.

The room sounds much more controlled although more bass absorption is definitely needed. I notice the room has deadened significantly and it sounds different to speak in the room vs other places in the house.

I have a measurement mic and tried to quantify the difference. See the link here for waterfall plots and freq. response. I would appreciate any help on fully understanding my room! I don't really understand all of REW. All plots are 1/24 smoothing.

I ran one test with panels in the room and another with all in the hallway.

https://imgur.com/a/1C18o2z

Gear-
MiniDSP HD DAC
Sansui 9090 - Full recap
A/D/S L1290
Deluxe speaker cables from trashed extension cord
UMIK-1 Calibrated measurement mic

With this room I finally feel that I could upgrade speakers and notice the difference. Looking into powered monitors, Focal Twins, Genelec or ADAM. Also considering DIRAC for EQ if anyone has input? I have not any luck using REW to autogenerate PEQ settings. It sounds grainy?

Is there a link to how to use PEQ responsibly with REW? Especially with no sub.

Your problem is not the room but poor frequency response. To solve it you need to do EQ, panels won't help in any way.

I suggest you try with 3 simple filters. First try to lower that nasty peak at 50Hz to level it with the surrounding area with something like this: f=50Hz, Q=12, -6dB

Then try setting the second filter at f=65Hz, Q=4, -7dB to level the area between 40 and 100Hz to the blue line.

Finally, try with the 3rd filter f=900Hz, Q=1, -8dB to lower the entire midrange area close to the blue line.

Make control measurements after each try to see how you are progressing. Good luck!

 

[Fledermaus]

The 2 plots are quite superposable, which is not surprising since damping has little effect on the frequency response ; beside EQing, in order to quantify the effect of the acoustic (absorptive) treatment you should overlay the RT60 (decay time) graphs in REW, it should be much more visible.

 

[Soniclife]

Hey guys! This is my first post but I have learned a lot from this forum over the past year! I used the REW for dummies thread and eagerly await part 3. Please tell me if the post is in the right place etc.

So, I recently purchased a full set of Auralex ProPanel ProKit for 200 bucks (Link to treatment solution)
on CL and jammed it in my squarish (12x13x8.5) room. The sound improved so dramatically I could not believe it.
I am in a rental and a small bedroom so setup was not exactly ideal. Did not want to put a shitload of holes in the wall so several panels are on the floor. My speaker placement/setup is also terrible but I have no real choice IMO.

The room sounds much more controlled although more bass absorption is definitely needed. I notice the room has deadened significantly and it sounds different to speak in the room vs other places in the house.

I have a measurement mic and tried to quantify the difference. See the link here for waterfall plots and freq. response. I would appreciate any help on fully understanding my room! I don't really understand all of REW. All plots are 1/24 smoothing.

I ran one test with panels in the room and another with all in the hallway.

https://imgur.com/a/1C18o2z

Gear-
MiniDSP HD DAC
Sansui 9090 - Full recap
A/D/S L1290
Deluxe speaker cables from trashed extension cord
UMIK-1 Calibrated measurement mic

With this room I finally feel that I could upgrade speakers and notice the difference. Looking into powered monitors, Focal Twins, Genelec or ADAM. Also considering DIRAC for EQ if anyone has input? I have not any luck using REW to autogenerate PEQ settings. It sounds grainy?

Is there a link to how to use PEQ responsibly with REW? Especially with no sub.

Have you tried placing the panels in corner where your right speaker is?

If these are combined L+R plots you will probably want to do EQ on the channels individually.

 

[Mawclaw]

Thanks for everyone's input so far, I appreciate it. I will take a look at the RT60 graph and post them when I get off work.

So a couple of questions-

1- Is my poor frequency response speaker related or a function of my room/setup? I suspect this may be impossible to know with the information that I provided but would appreciate any opinions.

2- Is there a good metric to determine if a room is becoming over-damped? Using calculators on acoustic websites my setup puts me a little below "ideal" coverage.

3- Is using the auto eq within REW a fool's errand? Are there suggested max boost levels? I will attempt to EQ both speakers individually tonight, thanks for the suggested filters.

 

[Krunok]

Thanks for everyone's input so far, I appreciate it. I will take a look at the RT60 graph and post them when I get off work.

So a couple of questions-

1- Is my poor frequency response speaker related or a function of my room/setup? I suspect this may be impossible to know with the information that I provided but would appreciate any opinions.

2- Is there a good metric to determine if a room is becoming over-damped? Using calculators on acoustic websites my setup puts me a little below "ideal" coverage.

3- Is using the auto eq within REW a fool's errand? Are there suggested max boost levels? I will attempt to EQ both speakers individually tonight, thanks for the suggested filters.

Room affects mostly lower frequencies, up to 300Hz or so. It has limited impact in the 300-600Hz region and practically no impact above 600Hz.

Regarding RT60, good listening room will have a flat line at 500ms or lower in the 200Hz-20kHz region.

Auto EQ within REW can be very helpfull once you learn how to proeprly use it.

 

[Fledermaus]

2- Is there a good metric to determine if a room is becoming over-damped? Using calculators on acoustic websites my setup puts me a little below "ideal" coverage.

Should be reasonably flat > 300Hz and about 0.3-0.4

EDIT: Krunok was faster
EDIT2 : let's make it 0.4 - 0.5 s (had a smaller room in mind)

 

[Daverz]

Which of the RT60 traces are the ones to look at? Here's the last measurement of my Vandersteen Quatros in my common room with vaulted ceiling and wall-to-wall carpeting in a second-floor condo with wood frame and Sheetrock construction.

 

[Krunok]

Which of the RT60 traces are the ones to look at? Here's the last measurement of my Vandersteen Quatros in my common room with vaulted ceiling and wall-to-wall carpeting in a second-floor condo with wood frame and Sheetrock construction.

View attachment 31736

Topt

 

[Fledermaus]

IIRC Topt is the most relevant for our purpose
https://www.roomeqwizard.com/help/help_en-GB/html/graph_rt60.html

 

[Krunok]

IIRC Topt is the most relevant for our purpose
https://www.roomeqwizard.com/help/help_en-GB/html/graph_rt60.html

 

[Mawclaw]

Krunok coming in hot once again.

 

[Daverz]

Hmmm, I would't call my room too lively. It actually sounds a bit overdamped to me, but maybe that's at particular frequencies.

 

[Krunok]

Hmmm, I would't call my room too lively. It actually sounds a bit overdamped to me, but maybe that's at particular frequencies.

Mine is similar to yours, it sounds ok to me.

 

[Fledermaus]

Nice job Krunok
Mine (here, initial state and after two rounds of treatment) still sucks, planning to flatten it between 600 and 6k :

 

[Krunok]

Nice job Krunok
Mine (here, initial state and after two rounds of treatment) still sucks, planning to flatten it between 600 and 6k :

You made very nice progress!

 

[Mawclaw]

So I may be overdamped and my response is not flat at all? Can someone help me interpret these RT60s

 

[Krunok]

So I may be overdamped and my response is not flat at all? Can someone help me interpret these RT60sView attachment 31738View attachment 31739

What are those two graphs? Before and after treating?

If that is so show them in overlay window.