Transmitting sound to neighbors, which bass frequency is most audible for these neighbors?

[edechamps]

Careful, building sound isolation standards like these often specify a frequency range that stops short of subwoofer frequencies. For example the regulations for the UK only cover >125 Hz. I've heard that some builders exploit this and design walls whose resonance frequency sits somewhere below 125 Hz (e.g. 50 Hz or so). Which, of course, means bad news.

 

[hex168]

Proximity is the best solution. The idea that since we are less sensitive to bass, it somehow is less of an issue for neighbors is absurd - since we are less sensitive, we compensate with 15" woofers with huge xmax and boosting the levels so we can hear them.

Don't try to control the emission of LF, the best you can do is get it near your head and turn it down. Remember every halving of distance means you can turn it down 6db. The extreme case is headphones, where you can play as loud as you want without anybody noticing.

We are moving away from single-family detached housing in many areas, so the era of big cheap speakers is likely over.

You probably know this better than I do, but for clarity's sake: "every halving of distance means you can turn it down 6db" - true above Schroeder. Below, it is complicated, but more true for dipole than monopole. I think I have that close to right.

 

[edechamps]

every halving of distance means you can turn it down 6db

That is only true in free field conditions, not in a reverberant room. Especially at low frequencies where rooms tend to be more reflective and speakers tend to be omnidirectional. In practice it'd be more like 3 dB or so.

 

[DanielT]

That is only true in free field conditions, not in a reverberant room. Especially at low frequencies where rooms tend to be more reflective and speakers tend to be omnidirectional. In practice it'd be more like 3 dB or so.

You know this, but for others who read this thread it's a tip. You don't even need to buy a microphone to test that this is the case. That a normally furnished
normal size, "standard" listening room can be seen as a reverberant room/chamber that is.
Download a free dB app then measure in different places in the listening room. The result, unless the room is sound treated to be almost like an anechoic chamber, will , in principle, be the same in the listening room.

A few inches or a few decimeters from the speaker vs. far from the speakers there may be some differences. But that extreme case can be ignored.
Anyone can very easily and quickly test that this is the case.

 

[ZolaIII]

That is only true in free field conditions, not in a reverberant room. Especially at low frequencies where rooms tend to be more reflective and speakers tend to be omnidirectional. In practice it'd be more like 3 dB or so.

It will be more than 3 even in a small room but you have additional boost from close to wall behind. Main thing is that room length is at least 4 m preferably 5.

 

[617]

That is only true in free field conditions, not in a reverberant room. Especially at low frequencies where rooms tend to be more reflective and speakers tend to be omnidirectional. In practice it'd be more like 3 dB or so.

Good point, you're quite right. But you can expect some improvement though.

 

[DanielT]

A little OT, but still nearby. I was curious. Are there any building regulations regarding noise levels where new construction of houses takes place?
Then there is also an overall more political, ideological question about when and how a state should interfere in what citizens should be allowed to do (build where and how they want in this case). I will leave that aspect aside. As is well known, we will not engage in political talk here at ASR.
Enough waffle about that.If you are curious, you can check for yourself if there are and if so, what levels apply in your country. In Sweden, this applies:

Noise regulations and guidelines
Reviewed: June 16, 2023

Noise regulations are found in both the Planning and Building Act, the Environmental Code and ordinances. For different categories of noise, there are also guidelines for noise levels in residential buildings.

Unless it is considered unnecessary in view of the noise situation, calculated noise levels must be stated in the detailed plan description if it concerns residential buildings and in the building permit if it is outside a detailed plan area. This applies to matters concerning detailed plans and building permits that have been initiated from 2 January 2015. The sound levels refer to ambient noise outdoors. The main rule is that a supervisory authority must base any supervision under the Environmental Code on these calculated noise levels.

The regulation states that if the noise at an exposed facade is exceeded, a protected side should be achieved where the noise amounts to a maximum of 55 dBA equivalent sound level and a maximum of 70 dBA maximum sound level at the facade between 10:00 p.m. and 6:00 a.m. At least half of the living rooms should face the protected side. Here too, a maximum of 50 dBA equivalent sound level and a maximum of 70 dBA maximum sound level at a patio if one is to be arranged adjacent to the building apply. The maximum level at the patio should not be exceeded by more than 10 dBA maximum sound level five times per hour between 6:00 a.m. and 10:00 p.m.

Noise from air traffic
The regulation states that noise from airports should not exceed 55 dBA aircraft noise level, FBN, and 70 dBA maximum sound level for air traffic at the facade of a residential building. If the noise level of 70 dBA maximum sound level for air traffic is nevertheless exceeded, the level should not be exceeded more than sixteen times between 06:00 and 22:00 and three times between 22:00 and 06:00. However, the provisions on maximum sound level for air traffic between 06:00 and 22:00 do not apply to airports in the Municipality of Stockholm.

Lämplig mark- och vattenanvändning

Vid framtagandet av detaljplaner ska kommunen göra en lokaliseringsprövning utifrån plan- och bygglagens andra kapitel.

www.boverket.se

There was more for me to translate, but it's actually quite uninteresting to you what the rules are in Sweden. I just showed this to let you know that you can check what applies in your country.

 

[Flaesh]

Another retirement project,

How much longer do we have to wait?))

 

[Mart68]

UK Regs:

According to the sound regulations, the minimum level of airborne sound resistance for floors and walls between properties is 43 decibels in conversions and 45 decibels in new builds, which should be enough to cut out every day regular sounds at a normal level. The internal airborne sound resistance inside dwellings needs to be a minimum of 40 decibels, and this applies to upper floors and walls between rooms.

Impact sounds such as dropping objects, jumping, stomping, and footsteps have maximum sound transmittance levels of 62 decibels for floors and stairs in new builds, whilst the maximum for conversion projects is 64 decibels.

My house was built in 1900, I don't think there were any noise regs at all back then. I share wall with neighbours either side. I can hear the neighbour's cat shouting at him. It's only a little thing but it can go quite loud - although I suspect it would not be audible if the house conformed to current regs.

For a couple of years both adjoining houses were empty but I only tend to have music on in the daytime so never really exploited that.

If I go in the kitchen and go right to the back, with the door closed (airtight seal) I can make out bass lines clearly but they are not high in level. Can't hear anything other than the bass. Neighbours have never complained once in 27 years although I have told them if it's ever too much just bang on the wall.

 

[edechamps]

According to the sound regulations, the minimum level of airborne sound resistance for floors and walls between properties is 43 decibels in conversions and 45 decibels in new builds, which should be enough to cut out every day regular sounds at a normal level. The internal airborne sound resistance inside dwellings needs to be a minimum of 40 decibels, and this applies to upper floors and walls between rooms.

…but not below 100 Hz (I was wrong earlier - it's 100 Hz, not 125 Hz), which is the limit of measurement. Approved Document E:

BS EN ISO 717-1:2013:

So, in other words, there are no requirements for subwoofer frequencies, sadly. The walls could be acoustically transparent at 50 Hz and still meet the regulations.

 

[Sokel]

I have already posted my test at the other posted thread here.

Regardless, those of you who think that a sub could be done harmless take it from the real life, the distant, 3 blocks away car which pounds as if it was in the house if the doors and insulated class windows of the house are open.
It's not easy.

 

[Mart68]

…but not below 100 Hz (I was wrong earlier - it's 100 Hz, not 125 Hz), which is the limit of measurement. Approved Document E:

View attachment 436299

BS EN ISO 717-1:2013:

View attachment 436300

So, in other words, there are no requirements for subwoofer frequencies, sadly. The walls could be acoustically transparent at 50 Hz and still meet the regulations.

Yes I don't think they take into account those of us who like to crank up full range speaker systems.

The intention is just so you can't hear the neighbours chatting and moving about normally.

I'd guess babies crying and dogs barking would exceed the thresholds too. The people one house over have a baby and I hear that cry sometimes - that's through 2 brick walls with a 12' wide void between.

But my neighbourhood is very quiet. Often the loudest noise I can hear is my tinnitus.

 

[DanielT]

But then it's fascinating what you can accept without any problems. The young people in the apartment below me, the students, fill the apartment to the brim with party-loving people about once a month. It becomes a wild party with beer, wine, spirits, music, singing and so on. You know how it is with young people. Good atmosphere, happy laughter. Damn loud of course but that doesn't bother me at all. Let the young people have fun, I just say.

In fact, on the contrary, I'm a little irritated that they DON'T have a better HiFi system. They should get some good subwoofers. If there's going to be a party, I think it should be done properly (best not to tell them about it, other neighbors might not be too happy about it). In any case, it doesn't annoy me one bit. Even though they can sometimes play music until midnight (other neighbors have complained about it, so they end their parties a little earlier now).

It was extra fun a few months ago when they played and sang along to a famous Swedish party song. It's about, ....well mostly partying and having fun. My grandfather actually knew the famous party animals that the song is about. The original:

The version they sang along to, damn it, they went wild then ha ha: