Toyota news on solid state batteries

[Addicted to music]

Early 2020s, 500km range and 10min charge.....we’ll see! If all goes well it will be a game changer to the current lithium ion established tech. And I possible consider owning one! Not at the moment especially with the safety concerns on the nature of current lithium ion that’s used on current EVs


https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Te...dLewHEtdMf760lKVffLUtuRElwHcb8E6rNYYt8MNmc3mE

 

[Doodski]

Early 2020s, 500km range and 10min charge.....we’ll see! If all goes well it will be a game changer to the current lithium ion established tech. And I possible consider owning one! Not at the moment especially with the safety concerns on the nature of current lithium ion that’s used on current EVs


https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Te...dLewHEtdMf760lKVffLUtuRElwHcb8E6rNYYt8MNmc3mE

Good news. Lithium is something Canada has good reserves of and plans are underway to start extraction and refine it.

 

[Addicted to music]

I have to say, it took me 11mths to update a old 2003 Camry that boss drives, we needed to update the vehicle so this could be given to my daughter who just got her learners early last year. We currently own a RAV4 Hybrid AWD that suppose to get 5Lt/100km. Happy to say that’s she’s getting 5.7/100 according to the hybrid system... we took ownership of this vehicle in late January this year and it’s been a pleasure to drive compared to the big Colorado Ute thats diesel and goes like a truck. LookEd at the Tesla Range and was considering the entry model 3, not my thing! And doesn’t tick some of the crucial boxes, one is safety, don’t care what BS is sold via the marketing hype, manufacturers that’s been around the business for years know what works and what doesn’t and I have to say this is where it lacks....good on you if you’ve considered and own a Tesla and happy to run the Tesla ecosystem, but sorry not for me!

 

[Tks]

10min charge.. my nuts.

More vaporware nonsense (though Toyoya had some pretty cool safety tech concerning hydrogen powered engines).

 

[Addicted to music]

10min charge.. my nuts.

More vaporware nonsense (though Toyoya had some pretty cool safety tech concerning hydrogen powered engines).

Current Tesla Owners are getting 60% charge in 20mins with a range of more than 200km With a Super Charger, so 10mins maybe achieveable.
The issue with hydrogen is that you need expensive infrastructure, not exactly feasible when with EV the grid is already rolled out! That said in Australia most is generated by coal powered.

 

[Tks]

Current Tesla Owners are getting 60% charge in 20mins with a range of more than 200km With a Super Charger, so 10mins maybe achieveable.
The issue with hydrogen is that you need expensive infrastructure, not exactly feasible when with EV the grid is already rolled out! That said in Australia most is generated by coal powered.

Massive difference when you want to more than double the mAh. Fast charging becomes a problem (risk thermal runway), and just generally you wear your batteries to shit.

And simply the idea of that range existing with that fast charging on top of it. Seems insane to me atm.

As far as hydrogen, that is DOA. Safety is the primary concern, expose it to oxygen during a crash or something, and you literally have a hydrogen bomb. Really scary stuff tbh.

 

[Matias]

Sounds great on paper, now I want to see how they really perform when they turn it into reality, and how fast they can produce it.

 

[bigx5murf]

EVs are great for the average commuter, city dweller. But they're terrible for people who drive longer distances. My sister is a huge Tesla, proponent, and owns a model S. She tried taking it on an 9 hour road trip when she first got it. Spent 2 hours stopping to charge, and barely made it to the charging station at times. After that one experience, she borrows my mom's CX5 for road trips.

The build quality of Teslas are also pretty atrocious. I understand they're a new company, and still trying to workout the QC kinks, which traditional car companies have had decades to perfect.

 

[Doodski]

EVs are great for the average commuter, city dweller. But they're terrible for people who drive longer distances.

Up here in the Great White North where for ~8 weeks every winter we see temps of about -20C (-4F)daytime and down to -40C (-40F) at night and even colder when we get a real cold snap we are waiting to see how electric vehicles sustain this environment. From heating the car, defrosting the windshield and rear window and running the vehicle around that is bound to take it's toll on electric vehicles. We now have a fleet of 21 electric buses here and that is a test for the made in USA buses that the municipality purchased. After running those buses for a year or two the entire fleet will be switched over to electric. Protera is claiming the buses take roughly one to four hours to recharge, depending on the level of charge when they return to the garage.
https://www.proterra.com/

 

[Addicted to music]

Up here in the Great White North where for ~8 weeks every winter we see temps of about -20C (-4F)daytime and down to -40C (-40F) at night and even colder when we get a real cold snap we are waiting to see how electric vehicles sustain this environment. From heating the car, defrosting the windshield and rear window and running the vehicle around that is bound to take it's toll on electric vehicles. We now have a fleet of 40 electric buses here and that is a test for the made in USA buses that the municipality purchased. After running those buses for a year or two the entire fleet will be switched over to electric. Protera is claiming the buses take roughly one to four hours to recharge, depending on the level of charge when they return to the garage.
https://www.proterra.com/

Dont forget that Tesla Owners in very cold climate are complaining that the handles don’t operate all that well. They are jammed due to the freezing conditions and need a defrost to warmer temp to operate.... Other manufacturers don’t have that issue.

 

[bigjacko]

They do not mention what technology was used in the battery. Can I guess graphene?

 

[Doodski]

Dont forget that Tesla Owners in very cold climate are complaining that the handles don’t operate all that well. They are jammed due to the freezing conditions and need a defrost to warmer temp to operate.... Other manufacturers don’t have that issue.

The extreme cold has a way of popping up issues in anything exposed. Doors don't operate properly, keys get frozen in locks, hydraulic cylinders become inoperative or stiff, batteries don't like this sort of cold temp range. I bet the range of the batteries is 2/3 or less in the extreme cold.

 

[Addicted to music]

EVs are great for the average commuter, city dweller. But they're terrible for people who drive longer distances. My sister is a huge Tesla, proponent, and owns a model S. She tried taking it on an 9 hour road trip when she first got it. Spent 2 hours stopping to charge, and barely made it to the charging station at times. After that one experience, she borrows my mom's CX5 for road trips.

The build quality of Teslas are also pretty atrocious. I understand they're a new company, and still trying to workout the QC kinks, which traditional car companies have had decades to perfect.

The trouble is that they think they are the most technological advanced company promising delivery which they lack, I don’t even think they are considering QC hence the reason why they are so atrocious in this dept where a cheap Korean manufacturer have got it down packed and can confidently provide 7yr warranty with unconditional km.
The other grip I have is the eganomics, instrumentation on the Model 3 is a large tablet in the centre, I could be wrong and stand corrected but there’s no heads up display, well you don’t need it if you have Autopilot! Every other vehicle have instrumentation display in front behind the steering wheel. If you stand in the showroom and watched people try to operate that door handle is an interesting thing to watch especially if you’re like me where I don’t want people touching the paint work!

 

[Addicted to music]

The extreme cold has a way of popping up issues in anything exposed. Doors don't operate properly, keys get frozen in locks, hydraulic cylinders become inoperative or stiff, batteries don't like this sort of cold temp range. I bet the range of the batteries is 2/3 or less in the extreme cold.

I’ve seen pics in Russia where they have heat pads under EVs to keep the battery warm.

 

[Doodski]

I’ve seen pics in Russia where they have heat pads under EVs to keep the battery warm.

Heated batteries heated by the batteries...

 

[Doodski]

Hyundai Motor Company and Kia Motors Corporation provided new details on their enhanced heat pump system, deployed in Hyundai and Kia’s global electric vehicle (EV) line-up to maximize their all-electric driving range in low temperatures. The technology was first introduced in 2014 on the first-generation Kia Soul EV.
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/06/20200610-hyundaikia.html

 

[EJ3]

In Guam (always summer) I never had a car battery (wet cell) last more than three years, or a tire last more than 6 (even though they would have less than 10,000 miles on them) due to the degradation of the rubber. They would start throwing chunks of tread. Also: if everyone starts driving electric cars won't there be more generation of electricity needed? What will the footprint of more ways & places that generate electricity do to the environment?

 

[Doodski]

In Guam (always summer) I never had a car battery (wet cell) last more than three years, or a tire last more than 6 (even though they would have less than 10,000 miles on them) due to the degradation of the rubber. They would start throwing chunks of tread. Also: if everyone starts driving electric cars won't there be more generation of electricity needed? What will the footprint of more ways & places that generate electricity do to the environment?

Well... In The Province of Alberta Canada all the coal fired electricity generation facilities have been converted to natural gas. Saving ~1/2 the emissions. So we are still burning stuff to generate electricity. There is some wind and solar and more solar is being installed every month but wind and solar is not a solution here. It's to augment the main electricity generating method. Wind and solar need a off-peak storage method to be effective and we simply don't have a storage method. Nuclear is being considered for some areas.

 

[maverickronin]

Well... In The Province of Alberta Canada all the coal fired electricity generation facilities have been converted to natural gas. Saving ~1/2 the emissions. So we are still burning stuff to generate electricity. There is some wind and solar and more solar is being installed every month but wind and solar is not a solution here. It's to augment the main electricity generating method. Wind and solar need a off-peak storage method to be effective and we simply don't have a storage method. Nuclear is being considered for some areas.

Modern nuclear plants are the the only practical solution until/if someone actually gets fusion working.

The electric grid will also need an overhaul to accommodate all the extra power draw from EVs.

I still think that bio-synthetic gas and diesel will end up being a better solution. Carbon neutral, instant fillups for your car, and we already have the infrastructure to distribute it.

 

[Mashcky]

I’m a little shocked about the resistance to EVs I’m seeing on this forum. A long range Tesla could take me on the longest road trip I could ever desire (10 hours) with one forty minute stop, I’d never go to another dirty gas station again, and my car (and house!) could be powered by lighting up my roof with a PV array. Even attached to the grid, the average consumer in the USA would save $7/100 miles, not to mention more savings on auto repair costs in spite of Tesla’s allege poor quality. There is also no evidence they catch fire more often ICE automobiles - my only guess is that this is a myth exacerbated by the fear of dealing with lithium fires.

Of course little of this is related to the thread topic, a new solid state battery, which would improve cold temperature operation, energy density, longevity, and fire safety.