Tower speakers on hardwood floors: spikes on discs/coins? Sorbothane/silicone pads? Springs?

[robh36062]

I just used the rounded end of the spikes on my F 206's. My other floor standers are on sorbothane feet or on low wheeled carts so they can be easily moved around.

Rob

 

[Petrushka]

Spikes are for carpet. They’ll harm wood.

 

[Hear Here]

Deeper and more detailed bass, which mechanism would be at play here?
If the bass were deeper ( I can’t see possibly how ) one could use REW to measure it.
I sincerely suspect the only change was inside your head, I wouldn’t advise anyone to buy these expensive baubles.
Keith

I'm certainly not going to replace the Gaias with the original feet just to do a REW measurement. It was patently clear that the detail and clarity of the bass was improved when I switched to the Gaias. These are things that can't be measured - I listen with my ears, not a microphone. Bass is often a low frequency noise where the source of the sound ( vibrating strings or brass, etc) is difficult to precisely identify. The change to Gaia feet made the bass far more detailed. I'm not interested in what you describe as mechanism - I'm interested in hearing music as near as I can to a live performance. What more can be expected of good hi-fi?

 

[robh36062]

Spikes are for carpet. They’ll harm wood.

Depends smooth dome side not so much as long as you don't drag them and you are careful. I don't have any divots I can see. Also remember pointed spikes can also damage carpet. I don't use the sharp ends on any floor.

Rob

 

[mikewxyz]

This is my recommendation: 39mm Solid Aluminum Audio AMP Speaker Isolation Feet Pad Stand Damper Leg Black. Very well made. $20/ set

39mm Solid Aluminum Audio AMP Speaker Isolation Feet Pad Stand Damper Leg Black | eBay

BRAND NEW SOLID ALUMINUM AMPLIFIER FEET Material: Solid Aluminum Alloy CNC Machined Color: Black anodized, High light Diameter: 39mm Height: 17mm Mounting screw Hole Diameter: 4mm (SCREWS FREE PROVIDED) With Non-Slip Mat The Price is for 4PCS/lot.

www.ebay.com

 

[Koeitje]

My JBL HDI-3600 came with rubber sorbothane type feet, that's the way they stayed.
I don't understand why manufacturer insist on 4 feet when 3 would provide a more stable platform?
True for not only speakers but electronics too.

4 spikes per speaker is such a pet peeve of mine. Just why? Why not just 3? I have 2 pair of speaker stands, one of the with 3 spikes and they are much more stable.

 

[DVDdoug]

The fundamental issue I was wondering about is that you have two seemingly opposite approaches for tower speakers on a suspended hardwood floor -

Audiophools may not agree... as long as it's expensive!

These are things that can't be measured -

Almost always shown to be false in blind listening tests. There are things that are difficult to measure, but not what we're talking about here.

 

[quattro98]

These are things that can't be measured

We're awfully good at measuring stuff.

Fermilab short-baseline detector detects its first neutrinos

Experiment turns on to search for answers to mysteries and evidence of new physics

news.uchicago.edu

 

[VMAT4]

This is my recommendation: 39mm Solid Aluminum Audio AMP Speaker Isolation Feet Pad Stand Damper Leg Black. Very well made. $20/ set

39mm Solid Aluminum Audio AMP Speaker Isolation Feet Pad Stand Damper Leg Black | eBay

BRAND NEW SOLID ALUMINUM AMPLIFIER FEET Material: Solid Aluminum Alloy CNC Machined Color: Black anodized, High light Diameter: 39mm Height: 17mm Mounting screw Hole Diameter: 4mm (SCREWS FREE PROVIDED) With Non-Slip Mat The Price is for 4PCS/lot.

www.ebay.com

@ $20/set a steal for audiophile gear!

 

[Salt]

Some non spiking spikes: https://www.amazon.com/Sound-Care-Jupiter-Boxenspikes-Electronics/dp/B0028RG5SE (redirected)

 

[kifeep]

Testing frequency response in this kind of tests are quite useless since if anything happens, it is distortion that may be audible.

This raises a few interesting questions to my mind. I would appreciate any education on this.

1. The idea that coupling might result in distortion sounds plausible, and is certainly measurable. I wonder has anyone has published any measurements that address this?

2. If I understand correctly, harmonic distortion at, say, 80Hz would manifest as additional energy at 160, 240, etc. Would one expect to be able to see this in a typical frequency response graph? I imagine one would have to look at the distortion graph to correctly identify the cause of the bump, but there would still be a difference in the isolated vs non-isolated frequency response graphs, right?

3. This all made me think of a related question about directionality, I guess. The linked Ethan Winer article demonstrated that energizing a speaker didn't activate known resonances in the table, but if vibrational energy was present in the table, could/would this affect the speaker output? And if so, could isolation products possibly mitigate it? Or does that lack of transfer of energy to the table directly imply that the speaker is equally immune to influence from external energy?

Thanks.

 

[Petrushka]

This raises a few interesting questions to my mind. I would appreciate any education on this.

1. The idea that coupling might result in distortion sounds plausible, and is certainly measurable. I wonder has anyone has published any measurements that address this?

2. If I understand correctly, harmonic distortion at, say, 80Hz would manifest as additional energy at 160, 240, etc. Would one expect to be able to see this in a typical frequency response graph? I imagine one would have to look at the distortion graph to correctly identify the cause of the bump, but there would still be a difference in the isolated vs non-isolated frequency response graphs, right?

3. This all made me think of a related question about directionality, I guess. The linked Ethan Winer article demonstrated that energizing a speaker didn't activate known resonances in the table, but if vibrational energy was present in the table, could/would this affect the speaker output? And if so, could isolation products possibly mitigate it? Or does that lack of transfer of energy to the table directly imply that the speaker is equally immune to influence from external energy?

Thanks.

One percent added to a frequency response graph would scarcely be the width of the graph line.

 

[robh36062]

The linked Ethan Winer article demonstrated that energizing a speaker didn't activate known resonances in the table, but if vibrational energy was present in the table, could/would this affect the speaker output? And if so, could isolation products possibly mitigate it? Or does that lack of transfer of energy to the table directly imply that the speaker is equally immune to influence from external energy?

To me that test is of limited value. Would have been better to use a system with significant LF output. Ever run a sine sweep in room from 200Hz down to 20Hz? Amazing the amount of coupling that can occur from the acoustic energy in the room.

Rob

 

[Pareto Pragmatic]

Thank you for posting this link. I have a very soft (95-year old, suspended) floor and installed sorbothane bumpers under my mains from the start (so no before/after observations). Apparently this was a waste of money, but luckily it was only $20.

I have a 99 year old floor that bounces, so super soft. After carefully calibrating by weight to get the right pucks, sorbothane showed marginal improvements in some problem spots 300hz and above, but did nothing for lower frequencies. I did hear a bit cleaner sound.

So you did not waste money. But no miracles occurred, you can be sure about that.

Since then I just use silicone hemispheres. Super cheap, likely not super effective. But they make me feel better about things.

 

[Thomas_A]

This raises a few interesting questions to my mind. I would appreciate any education on this.

1. The idea that coupling might result in distortion sounds plausible, and is certainly measurable. I wonder has anyone has published any measurements that address this?

2. If I understand correctly, harmonic distortion at, say, 80Hz would manifest as additional energy at 160, 240, etc. Would one expect to be able to see this in a typical frequency response graph? I imagine one would have to look at the distortion graph to correctly identify the cause of the bump, but there would still be a difference in the isolated vs non-isolated frequency response graphs, right?

3. This all made me think of a related question about directionality, I guess. The linked Ethan Winer article demonstrated that energizing a speaker didn't activate known resonances in the table, but if vibrational energy was present in the table, could/would this affect the speaker output? And if so, could isolation products possibly mitigate it? Or does that lack of transfer of energy to the table directly imply that the speaker is equally immune to influence from external energy?

Thanks.

Did you read my links in the post above?

 

[Old_School_Brad]

I have always used these. They compress under weight and come with powerful adhesive. They don't rub off on the floor as well.
When adjusting the speakers position I tip them and slide a piece of A4 copy paper underneath each and the speakers are easily moved

1421T9BK | DigiKey Electronics

Order today, ships today. 1421T9BK – Rack Rubber Feet Self Adhesive from Hammond Manufacturing. Pricing and Availability on millions of electronic components from Digi-Key Electronics.

www.digikey.com

 

[Pareto Pragmatic]

View attachment 395170

Lots of people suggest washing machine anti-vibration pads. A very old school device, and not expensive at all. Easy to source.

Never tried and certainly never measured them myself. So grain of salt and all.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

Lots of people suggest washing machine anti-vibration pads. A very old school device, and not expensive at all. Easy to source.

Never tried and certainly never measured them myself. So grain of salt and all.

Doesn't get cheaper than these. 24 pcs for 22 USD at my local wholesaler.

 

[MAB]

I'm certainly not going to replace the Gaias with the original feet just to do a REW measurement. It was patently clear that the detail and clarity of the bass was improved when I switched to the Gaias.

That's OK, this guy did.
If you had done the same, you too would have found out various feet do next to nothing.
"the measured changes are too small to account for the "obvious" improvements so many people claim to hear after floating their speakers on isolation pads"

These are things that can't be measured - I listen with my ears, not a microphone. Bass is often a low frequency noise where the source of the sound ( vibrating strings or brass, etc) is difficult to precisely identify.

You got this 100% backwards, bass is hard to hear and easy to measure with microphone. Try figuring out your room modes with your ears, it's nearly impossible with your ears and trivial with a microphone. As bad as our hearing is in midrange frequencies, it is next to useless for quantifying bass.

The change to Gaia feet made the bass far more detailed. I'm not interested in what you describe as mechanism - I'm interested in hearing music as near as I can to a live performance. What more can be expected of good hi-fi?

"Far more detailed bass", if real, is measurable.

 

[Hear Here]

That's OK, this guy did.
If you had done the same, you too would have found out various feet do next to nothing.
"the measured changes are too small to account for the "obvious" improvements so many people claim to hear after floating their speakers on isolation pads"


You got this 100% backwards, bass is hard to hear and easy to measure with microphone. Try figuring out your room modes with your ears, it's nearly impossible with your ears and trivial with a microphone. As bad as our hearing is in midrange frequencies, it is next to useless for quantifying bass.

"Far more detailed bass", if real, is measurable.

With respect, this is a response from someone who puts far more belief in what his microphone and PC says than in his own ears - how sad! Do you take your PC and microphone to concerts to judge how good they sound? I certainly don't, but me ears let me know whether the performance is a memorable one or one soon forgotten.

As I said, with my speakers on my floor and in my room, the improvement with Gaias over spikes (or the earlier B-fly feet) was significant, in particular the detail of the bass.