Tour of Danny's Business

[DanielT]

If Danny could concentrate on what he does reasonably well, that is half-good, sometimes ok speakers, there wouldn't be much to talk about. But as it is, he tends to gravitate towards a lot of nonsense on the fly.

Examples of half-good or ok speakers; these , NX-Bravo that Erin has now tested. The distortion is quite high, but beyond that, so-and-so speakers (considering the price). Even Erin liked the tube connectors they had. Not because they add some magical sound but because Erin liked the aesthetic of having flush-mounted connectors. Well, why not, it looks stylish.

Screenshot of Erin's test results:

NX-Bravo Kit
$699.00
–
$959.00

NX-Bravo Kit | GR-Research

gr-research.com

Although I would have much rather built these if I had to choose a "kit":

Mechano23 Open-source DIY Speaker Review

This is a review, listening tests and detailed measurements of the "Mechano23" open-source DIY speaker. A pair was kindly sent to me by the member. You can read more about it here. Baltic birch cabinet seems quite solid and well above what you get commercially. I was surprised to see a...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[SIY]

Never heard of any issues with heat damaged drivers

I inherited a pile of heat-damaged drivers from a major speaker company (kept in a storage area with no A/C through a hot summer) with the idea that I could sort through them and find a couple usable ones.

They all ended up in the dumpster.

 

[Todd68]

If the distortion was lower would anyone consider them more than just okay? I think he could design with lower distortion but then maybe give back the super clean resonance performance. I think that is a benefit from the planer tweeter, at a cost of higher distortion. And at what point can we perceive the distortion. I think the models with dome tweeter might measure better but ultimately not sound better.

 

[DanielT]

If the distortion was lower would anyone consider them more than just okay? I think he could design with lower distortion but then maybe give back the super clean resonance performance. I think that is a benefit from the planer tweeter, at a cost of higher distortion. And at what point can we perceive the distortion. I think the models with dome tweeter might measure better but ultimately not sound better.

Hm, but around 7% distortion at 4 kHz at 86dB. That should be quite audible to many. Too bad Erin didn't measure at 70dB or 75 dB.

About the same distortion level at 4 kHz at 86dB and 96dB:



Nope, 7% distortion in such an audibly sensitive area. It can hardly be considered good HiFi speakers with that.

 

[Todd68]

Hm, but around 7% distortion at 4 kHz at 86dB. That should be quite audible to many. Too bad Erin didn't measure at 70dB or 75 dB.

About the same distortion level at 4 kHz at 86dB and 96dB:

View attachment 441852View attachment 441853

Nope, 7% distortion in such an audibly sensitive area. It can hardly be considered good HiFi speakers with that.

Thanks, If you’re playing music at say a moderate 75DBA you can have peaks up to 95db which means the thing would distort even worse. I can see that being unacceptable, so I wouldn’t buy this model.

 

[M240i]

Other thing that really surprise me is the profound lack of real knowledge of Jay. The guy test 6 digits systems and talk about the sound of cables, or the subtles differences between to decents amps but is unable to setup an eq on a system. We can see him being often really uncomfortable just because beside some BS Danny has some real knowledge, and he clearly doesn't.

That was my main takeaway from these video's.
Jay doesn't appear to have any knowledge of audio/speaker equipment at all. This from a guy that will consult at $250/hr to help customers with their audio setup.

 

[Chris Brunhaver]

The Neo3 tweeters have never been known for low distortion. And in this case Danny runs them all the way down to 1khz.
Erin's results are as expected.

I used to work at BG and the original NEO3 drivers performed well in distortion. There were some QC issues over the years though (somewhat high unit to unit variance).

Zaph|Audio

Zaph|Audio archive: Zaph|Audio. DIY speaker designs and measurements by John Krutke. Preserved and hosted by Madisound Speaker Components.

www.zaphaudio.com

Danny's copies are significantly worse in non-linear distortion and have more narrow coverage above 6-7 kHz.

At PS, we use a similar construction to the BG NEO3 PDR drivers but with a few improvements.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s...B-1m.png?rlkey=jozqwrztwu0czxwui61r5dyrs&dl=0

IMD, in particular is very low.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s...FULL.png?rlkey=lvzjp7i3rlhprl4koh816j9d2&dl=0

 

[kyuu]

If the distortion was lower would anyone consider them more than just okay? I think he could design with lower distortion but then maybe give back the super clean resonance performance. I think that is a benefit from the planer tweeter, at a cost of higher distortion. And at what point can we perceive the distortion. I think the models with dome tweeter might measure better but ultimately not sound better.

Even without the distortion, they'd be merely OK in my book considering the price. There's nothing that stands out as great about them compared to what else is on the market. And they're still not appealing aesthetically, to me.

 

[M240i]

@Chris Brunhaver
John's testing was in comparison to other "non-dome" drivers, of course. Most decent dome tweeters will outperform the Neo3 for objective performance.
Many have evaluated this tweeter and found the results disappointing.

Spatial distortion

Danny removes the rear chamber and installs an alternative chamber. (I don't think that helps the distortion performance.)

Thanks for chiming in Chris. I had a long chat with you at the Adire Audio facility in Bothell years ago.

 

[Scrivs]

I fixed it for you.

Oh man, I wish I could "like" this 10000 times.

Mahalo for making my day braddah

Edit: Hawaiian not in spell-correct

 

[ex audiophile]

Seeing these two clowns together isn't a big surprise. What really disappointed me was Gene hooking up with "Jay's Iyagi". No idea why that happened, has to be some $$ involved somewhere. It only further degrades Gene's credibility. It's great that Gene tests audio gear and has tried to instill some sense into the hobby, but to associate with a cable lifter is sad.

 

[Chris Brunhaver]

@Chris Brunhaver
John's testing was in comparison to other "non-dome" drivers, of course. Most decent dome tweeters will outperform the Neo3 for objective performance.
Many have evaluated this tweeter and found the results disappointing.

Spatial distortion

Danny removes the rear chamber and installs an alternative chamber. (I don't think that helps the distortion performance.)

Thanks for chiming in Chris. I had a long chat with you at the Adire Audio facility in Bothell years ago.

I had a good time working for Dan at Adire. That was many moons ago. Trying to make may way in the audio biz still. Hope you're doing well.

I was just commenting that these are not the original NEO3. Danny is using a copy (which doesn't look as good). Back when BG was bought by Christie Digital, supply of their OEM drivers dried up for a while and Danny was a customer and developed or sourced an alternative. Part of the reason that the distortion is so high on his is that he eschewed the use of the acoustically resistive screens that BG used as damping and a few other things.

I can do some toneburst tests on our units here but the 1.5 kHz test that linkwitz used was kind of a worse case (at the time he was using an 8" magnesium mid in the Orion and looking for beefy tweeters to cross over low). Also, some of the NEO3 had tensioning/buzzing issues down low and would vary in distortion quite a bit.

 

[Todd68]

Can I accurately test my tweeters with REW? I don’t know if it meant anything or accurate enough, but when I did response measurements of my speakers with the GR NEO tweeter, the distortion levels were less than 3% at around 86db.

Also it be interesting to know if the backplate affects the distortion vs running it open back like mine are. Even though I like the speakers I feel a bit disappointed after learning this.

 

[Talisman]

We're just having fun.

The guy is entertaining and deliberately puts himself out there to be ridiculed and generally talked about. It probably gets him sales he wouldn't otherwise get. I mean seriously, his listening room looked like the Gaza strip, the 40ft cans I was half expecting to be solar powered grow rooms, not full of foam "diffusers", "no-rez" and bulk drivers.

He should get two giant fibreglass red and white tube connectors made up, put them high up a pole (Route 66 style) outside his joint and sign-written in flashing Neon with "GR Research- The birthplace of the world famous Tube Connector" A line of small signs saying: "Hot BBQ and Beers inside" "Open to Public Showroom and Factory-direct sales" " $10 factory tour with Danny" "signed T-shirts" etc. Make the place a must-see on that long road to the middle of nowhere.

Ok you made me laugh.
Seen from this perspective it seems like something I would love to do

 

[DanielT]

@Chris Brunhaver
Most decent dome tweeters will outperform the Neo3 for objective performance.

Yep, and this is how good it can look from a distortion perspective with a, too many, favorite DIY tweeter. A tweeter that Revel also uses:

Revel M105 Bookshelf Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Revel M105 Bookshelf/stand-mount speaker. A member was interested in it so I decided to buy it through our company. The retail cost is US $750 each for a total of $1,500 for a pair. NOTE: my company, Madrona Digital is a dealer for Harman and...

audiosciencereview.com

This tweeter, that is:

SB Acoustics SB26ADC-C000-4 | HiFiCompass

The THD measurements at distance of 315 mm and voltage levels 2.83 - 8 Volt were carried out with High Pass Filter "on" (2nd order Buttreworth type, 500 Hz cutoff, HPF2-500). The THD measurements at distance of 315 mm and voltage level 11.2 Volt were carried out with High Pass Filter "on" (2nd...

hificompass.com

SB Acoustics SB26ADC-C000-4 is an absolutely superb tweeter. The question is whether it is even possible to get a better tweeter for the money (around $55)?
:

 

[MattHooper]

That was my main takeaway from these video's.
Jay doesn't appear to have any knowledge of audio/speaker equipment at all. This from a guy that will consult at $250/hr to help customers with their audio setup.

Yeah, that’s the mind-boggling part… the idea that people pay a know-nothing like Jay lots of money to consult… or sell them things… just because he’s had plenty of overpriced gear.

 

[MattHooper]

Seeing these two clowns together isn't a big surprise. What really disappointed me was Gene hooking up with "Jay's Iyagi". No idea why that happened, has to be some $$ involved somewhere. It only further degrades Gene's credibility. It's great that Gene tests audio gear and has tried to instill some sense into the hobby, but to associate with a cable lifter is sad.

I can see your point of view, but I’m personally not too bothered by Gene talking with Jay and in fact I like it. Good for both of them.

I like Jay’s channel, he does some interesting reviews and has some cool equipment, and he’s also been incorporating more measurements into his review (like room, measurements of loudspeakers), which is a good trend.

Sure, he also has some dubious beliefs as well about certain stuff, but I find his head is generally screwed on right. And I think his connection with an even more measurement oriented guy like Gene is good for him.

I’m ok with Gene interacting with Jay… I’m not fond of purity tests… where somebody has to be in agreement with me lockstep on everything, and it’s nice to see that Gene doesn’t have all the walls up either.

 

[Todd68]

I just looked at some of the measurements I have saved in REW and the distortion readings are low. 1.2% for second harmonic at 89db. THD is 1.54% and most of the sweeps are close to the same, with minor variations. Is this accurate?

 

[amirm]

I just looked at some of the measurements I have saved in REW and the distortion readings are low. 1.2% for second harmonic at 89db. THD is 1.54% and most of the sweeps are close to the same, with minor variations. Is this accurate?

What was the measurement distance?

 

[Todd68]

What was the measurement distance?

9 feet, I guess I should measure closer?