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Totem Acoustics Rainmaker Speaker Review

Rate this speaker:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 174 69.0%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 69 27.4%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 6 2.4%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 3 1.2%

  • Total voters
    252
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I want to buy the smaller "Totem LOON Monitor" speakers. Are the measurements also bad for these speakers?
 
I want to buy the smaller "Totem LOON Monitor" speakers. Are the measurements also bad for these speakers?

I haven't seen measurements for that particular model. But most Totem speakers for which I have seen measurements have not fared so well.

Have you heard them? Any particular reason why you want them? There are lots of other similar-sized bookshelf speakers at that price (and below) for which we have known good measurements. I'd pick one of those before a Totem.
 
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I haven't seen measurements for that particular model. But most Totem speakers for which I have seen measurements have not fared so well.

Have you heard them? Any particular reason why you want them? There are lots of other similar-sized bookshelf speakers at that price (and below) for which we have known good measurements. I'd pick one of those before a Totem.
The Evoke 10 looks like good sounding speaker for me but i think my amp is to weak for that speaker.
 
I want to buy the smaller "Totem LOON Monitor" speakers. Are the measurements also bad for these speakers?
I am agreeing with everything Beave said. I had a brief infatuation with Totem, as they market their speakers as easy to place close to the wall, but then I discovered this site. What's the appeal for you?
 
This brand is Canadian and has been a source of pride for Canadian audio fans. Well they never sounded good to me but they are nicely made with lovely joinery. And since I discovered ASR many previously beloved Canadian (and other) brands have fallen from grace for me.
 
This brand is Canadian and has been a source of pride for Canadian audio fans. Well they never sounded good to me but they are nicely made with lovely joinery. And since I discovered ASR many previously beloved Canadian (and other) brands have fallen from grace for me.
I was very entertained by the Totem Element Fire when I owned them for 2 years or so. But I knew all along the fun they provided was also a bit colored. They are super composed even at high volumes for a bookshelf speaker, but you really need to be entertained by their tonality. That said, I still think Totems are capably desgined and very etertaining to listen to - not designed to be super neutral, but really fun.
 
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It isn't so much the variations from perfect neutrality that bother me. It's the crazy amount of high-Q, high amplitude resonances in so many of their designs.
 
Vince, the owner and designer, is great at doing demos at shows. Like Andrew Jones, he picks his clips carefully and with his nice presentation style, wins a lot of customers. He would routinely advertise that this woofers were so good that they didn't need any crossover! Likely then they would have break up modes showing up in measurements.
 
Vince, the owner and designer, is great at doing demos at shows. Like Andrew Jones, he picks his clips carefully and with his nice presentation style, wins a lot of customers. He would routinely advertise that this woofers were so good that they didn't need any crossover! Likely then they would have break up modes showing up in measurements.
Ah yes, like some of the old "classic" JBL loudspeakers that let the 12 inch woofer run full range. It added "color" for sure! Those were the bad old days. Many "audiophile" recordings are of simple sources, solo voices or instruments with limited accompaniment. Such recordings are poor at revealing resonances but they can sound impressive in their "clarity". That is why we have recordings for testing loudspeakers and recordings for pleasure. Occasionally they are the same but not always. Sean Olive published a paper detailing much of this, and it is in my books.
 
Vince, the owner and designer, is great at doing demos at shows. Like Andrew Jones, he picks his clips carefully and with his nice presentation style, wins a lot of customers. He would routinely advertise that this woofers were so good that they didn't need any crossover! Likely then they would have break up modes showing up in measurements.
When I read that BS about not using a low pass on woofers I wrote off Totem forever.
 
When I read that BS about not using a low pass on woofers I wrote off Totem forever.
I think the Element Fires I owned for about 2 years (tops) were one of the greatest exponents of that, with the massive "Torrent" woofer (for a bookshelf). I have to come to their defense some, even though I no longer own them because I knew all along they brought some coloration to the table (I had owned KEF LS50 as an "emergency solution" before, so had a good baseline)... but they *were* fun while I had them. I can absolutely see why some could stay totally happy with them.
 
They have a bit of a showroom balance, I think. No question some like that, even long term.
 
I knew all along they brought some coloration to the table (I had owned KEF LS50 as an "emergency solution" before, so had a good baseline)... but they *were* fun while I had them. I can absolutely see why some could stay totally happy with them.

I've owned everything from the Wind to Fire v2. Although they were enjoyable, the coloration was good for some music, bad for others. I wouldn't own another pair. Nice looking products and high WAF.
 
I have been using Totem Arro's for 15 years, at least. At time of purchase I A-B'd them against Rainmakers and against Forest's and STAFFs. At the time I was only listening to classical and was not greatly concerned about bass or volume. The Arro's were better than the Rainmakers, although I did like the latter. And I did not see value in the higher price of the Forest's and STAFF's.
Here is my question. Does ASR measure speaker velocity? Subjectively I feel these speakers are nimble and responsive. They don't push a lot of air.
At some point I wanted a sub, as I began listening to other genre's again. Sent two back because they made the sound worse, even though they added bass. I purchased a Totem Tribe sub. It's not a cube ... very flat with 2 x8 inch woofers and a very solid case. And separate 500 W amplifier. Again, the sub is very nimble and the bass is very clean. Very happy with that addition.
At first I did not have a crossover, but now with a Denon 3700 I do. And I added an ELAC centre channel which I was warned not to do, but for stereo music, which is most of it, I don't use it. And it helps greatly with movie sound.
At this point in life, budget is not a significant concern and I've thought of upgrading. But why?
 
I have been using Totem Arro's for 15 years, at least. At time of purchase I A-B'd them against Rainmakers and against Forest's and STAFFs. At the time I was only listening to classical and was not greatly concerned about bass or volume. The Arro's were better than the Rainmakers, although I did like the latter. And I did not see value in the higher price of the Forest's and STAFF's.
Here is my question. Does ASR measure speaker velocity? Subjectively I feel these speakers are nimble and responsive. They don't push a lot of air.
At some point I wanted a sub, as I began listening to other genre's again. Sent two back because they made the sound worse, even though they added bass. I purchased a Totem Tribe sub. It's not a cube ... very flat with 2 x8 inch woofers and a very solid case. And separate 500 W amplifier. Again, the sub is very nimble and the bass is very clean. Very happy with that addition.
At first I did not have a crossover, but now with a Denon 3700 I do. And I added an ELAC centre channel which I was warned not to do, but for stereo music, which is most of it, I don't use it. And it helps greatly with movie sound.
At this point in life, budget is not a significant concern and I've thought of upgrading. But why?
The concept of velocity doesn't make sense when talking about speakers. Yes, the driver cones/domes/membranes move faster as you go up in frequency or as you turn the volume up, but as long as the speakers can reproduce the full frequency band at a sufficient volume they are moving fast enough. "Faster" just results in more volume, because the cones/domes/membranes have longer excursion at the same frequencies.
 
The concept of velocity doesn't make sense when talking about speakers. Yes, the driver cones/domes/membranes move faster as you go up in frequency or as you turn the volume up, but as long as the speakers can reproduce the full frequency band at a sufficient volume they are moving fast enough. "Faster" just results in more volume, because the cones/domes/membranes have longer excursion at the same frequencies.
Velocity is not really the right word. I needed to think this through a bit more, insofar as the Totem Arro's are concerned. All speakers do is push air according to a wave form. For years I had trouble understanding how 3 piano keys which hit 3 strings that create 3 separate wave forms can be reproduced by a single speaker, or replicated by one physical wave form in a record groove. The answer is that the 3 strings create a single complex wave form which the speaker reproduces and then, roughly speaking, the cochlea in the ear decode that back into individual frequency curves, and the brain reconstructs the sound of the 3 keys (or better, say, 3 separate instruments).
A lot is asked of the speaker in terms of higher frequencies, because it is timbre that lets us individuate instruments especially in acoustic orchestral sound. At the time I bought the Arro's I took some favourite classical CDs to the stereo shop and greatly preferred the imaging, by which I mean reproducing the individual sound of many instruments at a lower volume, of the Arro even compared to some much more expensive speakers. I remember one pair in particular that made everything sound too "big". Play a simple acoustic guitar and the grit and nuance was gone, and the sound was big and buttery.
Poor speakers seem to mush the sound, and when I said "velocity" I wondered how accurately the speaker shifts to match a very complex waveform. That's a different ability from producing an even frequency response graph, because those seem to be based on matching tones, and don't test the responsiveness of the speaker as the waveform changes. This might not account for my preference for the Arro's at all. It's just a hypothesis on what accounts for my subjective preference for the speaker in A-B tests against others. (And yes, made sure to match the gain) I'm not an engineer or audio specialist. If you can account for my perception of the sound in some other way I'd be happy to hear it.
 
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Stereophile reviewed the Totem Element Fire v2 in their latest. I actually found the review pretty good, given the fact I'd owned the v1 before. Confirmed what I heard. But in the manufacturer's comments response, Totem showed a complete lack of humor and even intelligence. They oddly perceived the review as an attack on them, and just latched on to the lukewarm parts of the review, which all in all was quite positive, I thought. Basically, they waaaay over-amplified the negative. Bizarre response. It would have been so much smarter to highlight the positives (of which they could have found many).
 
I would agree that it seems reasonable to suggest that some people don't like admitting when and where they lack knowledge and experience.
 
To bring it all back down to Earth, I have had, and greatly liked, my Totem Arro's for almost 2 decades. But I suspect, that like the Rainmakers, they will show deficiencies on the instrument bench. And I wonder if I should switch to Revel's or another brand that measures up. So all this psychoacoustic discussion seems to bear especially on Totem speakers.
Some upgrades, like replacing my stereo amp with the Denon 3700, and taking room measurements using a decent mike and the REW program, tuning the amp with Audyssey, and adding a cross over to the subwoofer have all improved the sound.
It seems that you are wondering aloud if you should replace your speakers, which you “greatly like.” Here, you are kind of getting at the reason for this website. The vast majority of people are listening to their favorite music on inferior equipment and doing fine. HOWEVER, the argument goes, true music lovers care about hearing the truth of the recording - what the artists, engineers, producers, etc. intended for us to hear. (This is, of course, complicated by questions about the equipment and recoding space and techniques used for each recording, but I digress). The truth is that Totem speakers are not as accurate as other brands - they appear not to be trying to be: even the top-of-the-line Element speakers make design choices that - while no doubt pleasant to some listeners - do not align with current science. You would be hearing more accurate versions of your favorite music with Revels (or other similarly measurement-driven brands), but there is some risk. As your ears have become accustomed to the distortions introduced by your Arros, a more neutral speaker might sound worse to you - less dynamic, exciting, fun - AT FIRST. It may take some time for you to adjust to the “improved” sound, and it is even possible that you will never get there, that you will continue to miss your Arros. This is why listening is so important. Dr. Toole is probably literally the most knowledgeable person regarding music reproduction ON THE PLANET (no joke), but there are many incredibly smart, informed people on this site who disagree about specific speakers. It actually gets comically hostile on a regular basis, with two or more members shouting insults at each other about 2 different speakers or brands that 98% of listeners would hear as identical. So you need to judge for yourself. Personally, I would consider a switch to Revel speakers as a huge upgrade, and the research of Dr. Toole and others suggest the majority of listeners would agree, but you have a unique brain and hearing system, and that counts. Don’t forget that we lose the ability to hear high frequencies over time, so a speaker that you or I might find pleasant (I am 56), might sound very harsh in the treble to a 22-year-old. Also, listening in a store is - unfortunately - far from ideal, as room interactions affect the sound in a very significant way. If you could hear the Revels and your Arros in the same room, with the same equipment, that would be the next-best option (after hearing them in your home with YOUR equipment, of course). My advice would be to try to find a place that sells Arros, and also more neutral speakers, and hear for yourself. If you really can’t find a way to like the more neutral sound, come back here - there are many brands that measure better than your speakers, and some of them will sound better to you than others. KEF, JBL, Ascend, Sigberg - the list goes on. And since no speaker measures perfectly, each brand - each model - makes different trade-offs in their design choices (output, bass extension, directivity, cabinet rigidity, cost, etc.). Some of those choices will agree with you more than others. Most of us really enjoy the process of comparing and contrasting speakers. Happy hunting!
EDIT: There is a thread on this site with recommendations for passive floorstanding speakers, organized by price. It is by no means comprehensive, but might be useful to you: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-recommendations-for-usa-by-sweetchaos.28296/
 
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