When I read that BS about not using a low pass on woofers I wrote off Totem forever.
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Totem Acoustics Rainmaker Speaker Review
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As you are perfectly entitled to! Having read several of your posts, I am sure you use them well. Enjoy!
I have kind of evolved into minimalism that current options can provide, with a very strong preference for tidy and compact.
It's awesome we have so many choices to put competent systems together.
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I think the Element Fires I owned for about 2 years (tops) were one of the greatest exponents of that, with the massive "Torrent" woofer (for a bookshelf). I have to come to their defense some, even though I no longer own them because I knew all along they brought some coloration to the table (I had owned KEF LS50 as an "emergency solution" before, so had a good baseline)... but they *were* fun while I had them. I can absolutely see why some could stay totally happy with them.
Selkirks
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I've owned everything from the Wind to Fire v2. Although they were enjoyable, the coloration was good for some music, bad for others. I wouldn't own another pair. Nice looking products and high WAF.
That's the book I want. I had the first edition and gave it away after I bought the third edition, which I still have.
Any hints as to when the 4th edition might become available?
The manuscript is at the publisher, as of a couple of weeks ago. Lots of work yet to be done, including a coordinated companion website, so sometime in 2025 is the best I can do. Sorry. I am now relaxing a bit for the holiday season.
That sounds GREAT, and thank you VERY MUCH for taking the time to reply!
Please make an announcement here when it comes out.
Gosh, thanks for bringing back some great memories. The first “hifi” I bought with my first real job paycheque was an NAD T750, paired with Energy C2 “Connoisseur” bookshelf speakers. I didn’t know anything at the time and spent 20% of the cost on cables, but I knew I loved the sound of that setup. I recall them having a lot more bass than expected for their size. I had some hardcore house parties with those little beasts. I may still have those speakers in my storage somewhere!
Artsfols
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I have been using Totem Arro's for 15 years, at least. At time of purchase I A-B'd them against Rainmakers and against Forest's and STAFFs. At the time I was only listening to classical and was not greatly concerned about bass or volume. The Arro's were better than the Rainmakers, although I did like the latter. And I did not see value in the higher price of the Forest's and STAFF's.
Here is my question. Does ASR measure speaker velocity? Subjectively I feel these speakers are nimble and responsive. They don't push a lot of air.
At some point I wanted a sub, as I began listening to other genre's again. Sent two back because they made the sound worse, even though they added bass. I purchased a Totem Tribe sub. It's not a cube ... very flat with 2 x8 inch woofers and a very solid case. And separate 500 W amplifier. Again, the sub is very nimble and the bass is very clean. Very happy with that addition.
At first I did not have a crossover, but now with a Denon 3700 I do. And I added an ELAC centre channel which I was warned not to do, but for stereo music, which is most of it, I don't use it. And it helps greatly with movie sound.
At this point in life, budget is not a significant concern and I've thought of upgrading. But why?
Here is my question. Does ASR measure speaker velocity? Subjectively I feel these speakers are nimble and responsive. They don't push a lot of air.
At some point I wanted a sub, as I began listening to other genre's again. Sent two back because they made the sound worse, even though they added bass. I purchased a Totem Tribe sub. It's not a cube ... very flat with 2 x8 inch woofers and a very solid case. And separate 500 W amplifier. Again, the sub is very nimble and the bass is very clean. Very happy with that addition.
At first I did not have a crossover, but now with a Denon 3700 I do. And I added an ELAC centre channel which I was warned not to do, but for stereo music, which is most of it, I don't use it. And it helps greatly with movie sound.
At this point in life, budget is not a significant concern and I've thought of upgrading. But why?
The concept of velocity doesn't make sense when talking about speakers. Yes, the driver cones/domes/membranes move faster as you go up in frequency or as you turn the volume up, but as long as the speakers can reproduce the full frequency band at a sufficient volume they are moving fast enough. "Faster" just results in more volume, because the cones/domes/membranes have longer excursion at the same frequencies.
Artsfols
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Velocity is not really the right word. I needed to think this through a bit more, insofar as the Totem Arro's are concerned. All speakers do is push air according to a wave form. For years I had trouble understanding how 3 piano keys which hit 3 strings that create 3 separate wave forms can be reproduced by a single speaker, or replicated by one physical wave form in a record groove. The answer is that the 3 strings create a single complex wave form which the speaker reproduces and then, roughly speaking, the cochlea in the ear decode that back into individual frequency curves, and the brain reconstructs the sound of the 3 keys (or better, say, 3 separate instruments).
A lot is asked of the speaker in terms of higher frequencies, because it is timbre that lets us individuate instruments especially in acoustic orchestral sound. At the time I bought the Arro's I took some favourite classical CDs to the stereo shop and greatly preferred the imaging, by which I mean reproducing the individual sound of many instruments at a lower volume, of the Arro even compared to some much more expensive speakers. I remember one pair in particular that made everything sound too "big". Play a simple acoustic guitar and the grit and nuance was gone, and the sound was big and buttery.
Poor speakers seem to mush the sound, and when I said "velocity" I wondered how accurately the speaker shifts to match a very complex waveform. That's a different ability from producing an even frequency response graph, because those seem to be based on matching tones, and don't test the responsiveness of the speaker as the waveform changes. This might not account for my preference for the Arro's at all. It's just a hypothesis on what accounts for my subjective preference for the speaker in A-B tests against others. (And yes, made sure to match the gain) I'm not an engineer or audio specialist. If you can account for my perception of the sound in some other way I'd be happy to hear it.
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I can help make your life a bit easier by introducing some basic science. Loudspeaker transducers are "minimum-phase" devices, meaning that the time-domain behavior is predictable from the frequency response - including "speed", "velocity" etc. of movement necessary to reproduce the combined waveforms of complex sounds. The ideal frequency response to avoid time domain distortions is "flat", as in electronics (also minimum phase). Nobody would build a power amplifier with the frequency response of most loudspeakers. However, the encouraging thing is that some loudspeakers are now approaching the neutrality of electronics - decades late . . . Totem is a company that has not used neutrality as a goal, but we can hope they might change.
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I understand the point you are trying to make, but this is unfortunately not what is happening.
If a loudspeaker has sufficient dynamic range and a perfectly flat frequency response that can go as low as we can hear and as high as we can hear, it will be able to reproduce any waveform audible to humans no matter how complex that waveform.
A lot of Hifi magazines and forums talk about velocity, speed etc. especially in regard to bass - often about playing tunes, or "timing" etc. But there's a bit of underhandedness involved. Quite often "slow" and "overhung" bass is caused by standing waves and room nodes. So if you design a speaker with reduced low frequency extension, you are less likely to energise room nodes and bass sounds "faster". For jazz, rock, pop and a lot of classical music, this is OK, because there is very little deep bass. For electronica and pipe organ music, it's not so good.
Penelinfi
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I guess a small driver is "faster" because it has to move more. You likely can't hear that speed as much as you can hear distortions or lack of, dispersion etc from the speakers.
The small ones will usually have a slimmer baffle. They will radiate omni to a higher frequency.
They might have less sound coming back through the cone. They will have a higher breakup mode or less chance for certain cone resonance. They will also have more distortion in bass usually and more IMD.
Larger drivers tend to be on wider baffles, being more directional earlier, less sound bouncing around the room, can sound cleaner or more congested depending on driver quality, cabinet solidity, etc
The small ones will usually have a slimmer baffle. They will radiate omni to a higher frequency.
They might have less sound coming back through the cone. They will have a higher breakup mode or less chance for certain cone resonance. They will also have more distortion in bass usually and more IMD.
Larger drivers tend to be on wider baffles, being more directional earlier, less sound bouncing around the room, can sound cleaner or more congested depending on driver quality, cabinet solidity, etc
A small transducer is able to reproduce higher frequencies and these are "faster" than lower frequencies - that is all there is to it. Within a given bandwidth, all loudspeakers are equally "fast". There are no "fast" woofers because the "speed" is determined by the highest frequency it reproduces. If it is bass managed, that is typically 80 Hz. The room resonances are the "slow" part, and unless these are controlled, bass will be "slow", as MaxwellsEq said. Science is different from subjective reviewing - facts are involved.
Penelinfi
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Scientific facts also include moving a further distance in the same amount of time needs higher speed, like small woofer vs big woofer for the same input or output and their various efficiencies. I'd hope people on this forum would see that instead of blindly upvoting without thinking; regurgitation. In fact more likely to thumbs up only due to the fact that their idol figure wrote something.
Many smaller woofers have softer suspension , lower efficiency, more compensation to reproduce bass frequencies, leading to more excursion. More distance travelled, same time, same output volume.
Whether you can hear this still remains to be seen. Maybe someone can investigate how air responds with large surface area less movement vs small surface area more movement.
OP
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You don't hear that "speed." You hear pressure waves. And those waves must follow simply linear relationship between frequency, wavelength and hence, velocity (which is a simple function of the former two).
Think of it this way. Have a driver playing at very faint volume where you can't even see the cone moving. Then crank it up where it is playing at is maximum excursion. You think the sound changes because the cone has farther to travel in the second case?
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