Torn between AVR room correction and Hi-Fi sound quality.

[BalladeZR]

I'm really struggling to find a solution that gives me both: good room correction (e.g., Dirac Live) and the sound quality of a separate Hi-Fi system (streamer/DAC + amplifier).

From what I've read on ASR, most AVRs (like Denon X3800H/X4800H) have significantly worse audio performance compared to a dedicated DAC + amp setup. But I really want room correction for my listening space.

I've looked into using an external DAC with an AVR (e.g., feeding analog signal into the AVR), but then the AVR will convert it back to digital for Dirac processing, then again to analog – that double conversion seems to kill the benefit of a high‑quality external DAC.

I also considered MiniDSP, but it doesn't support Dirac Live Bass Control (DLBC), which is a dealbreaker for me.

So my question is: is there any way to get proper room correction (ideally Dirac Live with DLBC) without sacrificing the sound quality of a good external DAC + separate amplifier? Or do I have to accept that AVRs will always be a compromise?

Any advice or real‑world experiences would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[voodooless]

From what I've read on ASR, most AVRs (like Denon X3800H/X4800H) have significantly worse audio performance compared to a dedicated DAC + amp setup

Where did you read that? That’s not true, unless you need more power than these devices offer.

If you can wait a bit go for x3900h. It will offer better DACs if that would make you feel better

 

[BalladeZR]

Where did you read that? That’s not true, unless you need more power than these devices offer.

If you can wait a bit go for x3900h. It will offer better DACs if that would make you feel better

I recall seeing a review that indicated the SINAD of the X3800H is relatively low, and its DAC performance is even worse than that of the X3700H.Maybe I remember something wrong.But I really care about 3800＇s sound quality.

 

[voodooless]

I recall seeing a review that indicated the SINAD of the X3800H is relatively low, and its DAC performance is even worse than that of the X3700H.Maybe I remember something wrong.But I really care about 3800＇s sound quality.

Yes, that’s all true. But none of this is actually audible. The fact that you can use Audyssey/Dirac Live/ART will make orders of magnitude more difference.

 

[LTig]

I recall seeing a review that indicated the SINAD of the X3800H is relatively low, and its DAC performance is even worse than that of the X3700H.Maybe I remember something wrong.But I really care about 3800＇s sound quality.

This might be correct but don't become a slave of the SINAD hunt. Human hearing is rather insensitive to harmonic distortion (more sensitve to IMD though) so in most cases you won't be able to hear any suond quality difference between 100 and 80 dB SINAD - provided the noise is low and it's only the distortion component of SINAD which is bad.

 

[BalladeZR]

Yes, that’s all true. But none of this is actually audible. The fact that you can use Audyssey/Ditac Live/ART will make orders of magnitude more difference.

Thanks for your reply. So, given the current discounts, would you say the X3800H is worth considering? Also, could you share your thoughts on choosing between the Marantz Cinema line and the Denon X800H series

 

[Mort]

Nothing wrong with SINAD chasing, just know that you can't likely hear the difference.

 

[Ruediger]

I'm really struggling to find a solution that gives me both: good room correction (e.g., Dirac Live) and the sound quality of a separate Hi-Fi system (streamer/DAC + amplifier).

From what I've read on ASR, most AVRs (like Denon X3800H/X4800H) have significantly worse audio performance compared to a dedicated DAC + amp setup. But I really want room correction for my listening space.

Not long ago, before getting a Denon X3800H, I went through that same thought process.

The AVR is kind of a must-have in that room for me. HDMI sources, CEC, ..

Played with the thought of putting the Denon into pure pre-amp mode and connect it to line-in of the DAC/streamer. And have the DAC/streamer connected to the poweramp. I don't think that is a good solution in terms of usability though. Starting with volume control, then subwoofer management. Probably also room correction.

I took some time to use the Denon AVR in pre-amp mode + poweramp while also using the DAC/streamer directly with the poweramp. Did not find any degradation in sound or other issues. I recommend trying that. The AVR might not measure in the same league as the DAC, but if that makes a difference in reality is another topic. In my opinion, if you want to use the Direc feature it is more important than numbers on a chart. As long as there is no "real problem". Which there isn't.

 

[thcdru2k]

I run an X3700H as a processor with external amps + miniDSP Flex HTx in my primary system. In practice, proper bass management, delay/phase alignment, crossover integration, and room correction made vastly larger audible improvements than AVR DAC/SINAD differences.

If you want Dirac/ART/DLBC, I wouldn’t overthink the DAC measurements on modern Denon/Marantz units. The room and integration dominate perceived sound quality far more than SINAD differences.

For what it’s worth, I actually bypass my X3700H entirely for stereo music sometimes (streamer directly into miniDSP Flex HTx feeding external amps), so I’ve compared both paths in the same system. On paper the Flex HTx path measures better, but in practice I don’t hear a difference versus running music through the Denon into the Flex HTx.

 

[voodooless]

Thanks for your reply. So, given the current discounts, would you say the X3800H is worth considering?

Well, I’m biased, since I got one at a good price

Also, could you share your thoughts on choosing between the Marantz Cinema line and the Denon X800H series

Really, the Marantz usually is slightly more expensive. If you like the looks, go for that. Otherwise, it really doesn’t matter very much.

 

[Mort]

have you considered the minidsp TIDE16? Albeit with a few compromises, it does most of what you want - a high sinad AVR.

 

[EWL5]

Another vote for the 3800. Should be easier to find on discount now that the 3900 is shipping. If you must chase SINAD, then prepare to shell out $$$ like the Tide16 + amplifiers.

I have money but would rather spend on other things. As an engineer, I can appreciate high performance products w/high SINAD but I also understand diminishing returns and to not worry about the nth decimal place.

 

[Golfx]

Amir’s review mostly stated he was disappointed that Denon didn’t improve on their SINAD with the 3800. He was expecting incremental improvement and didn’t see it.

You can/should wait for a review of the Denon 3900 which will undoubtedly have a better SINAD.

 

[Raj21p]

Honestly, I think the internet tends to massively overstate how audible those AVR measurement differences are in real-world listening. In most rooms, good room correction and bass integration will have a far bigger impact on perceived sound quality than chasing ultra-low DAC distortion numbers from separates. A well-implemented Dirac setup on something like an X3800H with quality external amplification can sound absolutely excellent and is a very sensible middle ground.

 

[Chrispy]

Don't understand why you think it's one vs the other. That's some nonsense about the avr vs other integrated amps (particularly without the equivalent eq). Multiple ADC/DAC conversions haven't shown a lot of variance in a wide variety of circumstance. Dirac isn't the only way to go.

 

[Spinitch]

The discounted X3800 is among top values for features. Non audible issues are heat, fan can control, and clumsy App. With the renewals hope for App improvements. Most find App usable get used to it. The newer models have an Eco mode should reduce heat.

 

[Ruediger]

It also runs a lot cooler in pre-amp mode.

But even with the amps it's hot but not concerning hot. I had Yamahas that ran hotter.

Just make sure to provide enough space around it, not just above it. So air can flow.

Some info about eco mode:

"When ECO Mode is used, voltage for the amp stage decreases about 1/3 and amplifier stage energy loss decreases about 1/6 compared to ECO Mode being OFF.
It is recommend when using external amplification to leave ECO Mode set to ON. This will reduce power consumption to less than 70W.
When using ECO Mode ON at lower volume levels (under 45 Absolute) power consumption is about 1/2 as compared to leaving ECO Mode OFF. This is useful if using the AVR at night and you do not want to disturb others.
When using ECO Mode Auto, the circuit will control the power supply voltage by a relay. If the volume level is more than 45 Absolute the circuit will cut off. If the volume is less than 45 Absolute the circuit will switch on automatically. If listening at the threshold level (45) you will hear the relay clicking on and off frequently. Voltage for the amp stage does not change here, so power consumption would be the same as normal.

Thank You,
D+M Custom Install"

Eco mode can not be selected when the X3800H runs in pre-amp mode. The info applies to amp mode, with or without some channels using pre-out.

 

[Axo1989]

I'm really struggling to find a solution that gives me both: good room correction (e.g., Dirac Live) and the sound quality of a separate Hi-Fi system (streamer/DAC + amplifier).

From what I've read on ASR, most AVRs (like Denon X3800H/X4800H) have significantly worse audio performance compared to a dedicated DAC + amp setup. But I really want room correction for my listening space.

I've looked into using an external DAC with an AVR (e.g., feeding analog signal into the AVR), but then the AVR will convert it back to digital for Dirac processing, then again to analog – that double conversion seems to kill the benefit of a high‑quality external DAC.

I also considered MiniDSP, but it doesn't support Dirac Live Bass Control (DLBC), which is a dealbreaker for me.

So my question is: is there any way to get proper room correction (ideally Dirac Live with DLBC) without sacrificing the sound quality of a good external DAC + separate amplifier? Or do I have to accept that AVRs will always be a compromise?

Any advice or real‑world experiences would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

You didn’t describe your source other than ‘streamer’ nor whether you use/want stereo or more channels.

I’ve never liked AVRs personally, but really my distaste is aesthetic. I think they are ugly things visually and conceptually. But as I’m doing stereo the solution is straightforward: Apple Music on Mac with Sonarworks doing DSP duties, out via Thunderbolt/USB-C to the DAC, thence power amp and loudspeakers.

No redundant conversions. No unnecessary components. No SINAD loss introduced (if you are counting such). Sonarworks does multichannel if you want that but only one channel for sub-bass management currently, so substitute Dirac on Mac if you want stereo subs. Still waiting for ART support iirc.

 

[B-Flow]

Honestly, Audyssey/DIRAC trump everything. For me at least, chasing esoteric gear in some sort of ill conceived quest for purity is something I left behind many years ago. Unless you are doing from-scratch house construction or renovation and spending more on acoustic treatments than most spend on their entire hardware compliment, the speaker/room will always be imperfect. Audyssey/DIRAC/ARC (etc) make WAY more of a difference at your ear in the real world than a few dB of bench measurements this way or that way.

 

[Spkrdctr]

Don't chase sinad numbers. They are not audible and the AVR will perform very well. Many people do not understand Amir's review information. Until the number drops below 85 it is not all that important. Get what you like in features and power output and enjoy!