Topping U90 (USB DDC) and HS-01 (USB filter)

[EchoChamber]

I´ve tried the 22083 (se picture 3rd. from left).
Actually I find the 22083 the worst of them, so better keep you Pulse Technologies.
22083 has an even more pronounced "Black hole" sound, than any of the others, if SC947-2 is no option, go for the S22133, or stay with PT.
Still this is subtle changes in sound character, but striving for transparancy, this is still of significance IMO, and it is impossible to regain, what´s lost at the source.
Anyways if you have an awsome DC => DC converter, why not use an awsome pulse transformer.
Just my dime

Good point, thanks for sharing your impressions! I’ll try to get a SC947-2 then… I saw it on sale on Aliexpress…

If you have a chance to share a picture of your mod, it will help me plan mine…

 

[glc650]

I currently have a D90SE that I mostly use with Tidal MQA. If I buy a U90 and use it in front of my D90SE will I still get full MQA decoding?

 

[L Plate]

I currently have a D90SE that I mostly use with Tidal MQA. If I buy a U90 and use it in front of my D90SE will I still get full MQA decoding?

Don't think you can play MQA with USB Interface. Topping website did not mention it is capable of playing mqa. I know my SU 6 does not play MQA when connected to my Gustard X16, D90MQA and D90SE. Screen only display PCM @44.1 Khz. BTW, the improvement is very subtle in my humble opinion.

 

[glc650]

Don't think you can play MQA with USB Interface. Topping website did not mention it is capable of playing mqa. I know my SU 6 does not play MQA when connected to my Gustard X16, D90MQA and D90SE. Screen only display PCM @44.1 Khz. BTW, the improvement is very subtle in my humble opinion.

The U90 isn't doing the playing though and isn't it just working with the USB signal and not the contents (data) of that signal? Shouldn't the data (including MQA) be passed through as is?

 

[alwayslooking]

Hi,

I received my Topping U90 few days ago from Apos, and something I noticed immediately as I am usually upsampling my audio, is an EXTREMELY bad static sound when used in 768khz 32 bits connected in I2S to my Topping D90SE (which both devices should support based on their specs) - making it useless to me at this stage.

Before I before trying another unit, I wonder if any of you run into similar issues?

I notice that this issue with the U90 ONLY happens at 768 khz either in 24 or 32 bits. From quick tests, every other frequency from 44 to 705khz is NOT a problem in 24 or 32 bits

When I am directly connected to my D90SE instead of going through the U90, 768khz either in 24 or 32 bits is working well as usual.

I have replicated this on my Mac OS (MBP14 Pro M1 Pro / Monterey 12.1), as well as on a Win 10 Lenovo Legion Pro 5 laptop (latest win 10 version, with latest ASIO Topping drivers) connecting by USB to the to the U90, and then by I2s from U90 to D90SE.

I have tried with 2 different USB cables going to U90 and 2 different HDMI cables between U90 & D90SE. No difference.

I have determined that my D90SE is configured with the following options, and have matched my U90 with this

• IIS Phase = STD
• IIS DSDR = LRCLK
• DSD Flag = 15

Furthermore, I could not find however in the D90SE doc what MCLK SEL setting I should use on the U90. Is it 22&24 or 45&49? Trying both options don't seem to change anything to my issue though.

Thanks

 

[glc650]

Don't think you can play MQA with USB Interface. Topping website did not mention it is capable of playing mqa.

I can confirm that you CAN. Using Roon's Signal Path info and the DAC's display I can confirm that I'm getting full MQA. This is with an Allo USBridge connected to the U90 and the U90 connected to the D90SE via coax (the D90SE doesn't support MQA on IIS input so that won't work).

I have determined that my D90SE is configured with the following options, and have matched my U90 with this

• IIS Phase = STD
• IIS DSDR = LRCLK
• DSD Flag = 15

Furthermore, I could not find however in the D90SE doc what MCLK SEL setting I should use on the U90. Is it 22&24 or 45&49? Trying both options don't seem to change anything to my issue though.

Good question that I have too. My U90 came set at REV/45&49/pin14/DATA and my D90SE at STD/LRCLK/pin15. You would think both products would be set for Topping compatibility out of the box. That said, IIS seems to work with the defaults for me as well as when I use identical settings on both so I'm not sure what that means and I haven't been able to find any info/guidance about the use of these settings on Topping's site.

 

[EchoChamber]

I ordered a few pulse transformers to experiment, some fancy “audiophile” ones from Lundahl and Scientific Conversion (ordered directly). Without precision instruments to measure the signal and noise, I will only be able to give my subjective impressions. Perhaps @amirm would be interested in testing a modified U90 to see if we’re making it better or worse, I’d leave one of the outputs untouched so we have a reference…

 

[juliangst]

I am a bit disappointed. So this U90 only converts USB into various outputs but it does not allow to use these as additional inputs?

No because it's a DDC. It's meant to convert asynchronous USB to all those digital outputs with better clocking. You can't have spdif or AES as an input because it already has clock information in it.
Goldensound did a good video on explaining what DDCs do.

 

[mclement1964]

I got both my HS-01 and U90 today. Bought from Shenzhen, China. Delivered by DHL Express. I live in Sweden. Took about one week from order to delivery. HS-01 is really easy. Just plug in and play. I am struggling with U90 IIS protocol to talk with my D90 MQA. Almost there… Both works as expected

So what's the verdict for the U90 now? Could you really hear any positive difference? Do you think it was worth it?

 

[Dclone]

So what's the verdict for the U90 now? Could you really hear any positive difference? Do you think it was worth it?

No not worth it in my main setup in my permanent house together with D90 MQA. No difference in sound or performance. Will be worth it in my summerhouse (hopefully) to break groundloop. Have SMSL SU-9 there.

 

[audafreak]

Also in my setup no hearable positive change with HS-01. But I had no ground problem before.
I tried RME ADI-2 DAC and RME UCX II, both work with it without problems.

One strange thing - HS-01 becomes relatively hot after a while. Do you have similar experience?

So I have measured current and it takes via input USB connector from PC:
0.24 A when just connected to usb with no other device,
0.38 A when only external power is connected - more ??????
0.42 A when ext. power + usb headphones connected ????
0.34 A when no power, only usb headphones
So it takes more power when only ext.power is connected then when no ext. and only headphones connected. I don't understand it.
By the way those headphones were not detected by OS, only DACs worked. Also wireless mouse receiver did not worked.

With other noname Chinese isolator for 1/10 price both mouse and usb headset worked, but DACs did not worked.
This isolator takes :
0.06 A with usb headset connected
0.01 A with no device connected.

So each isolator is for different devices/purposes and you will never know what will work for your purpose. But HS-01 will probably work for any DAC which is not USB powered.

What is your experience?

 

[Dclone]

Also in my setup no hearable positive change with HS-01. But I had no ground problem before.
I tried RME ADI-2 DAC and RME UCX II, both work with it without problems.

One strange thing - HS-01 becomes relatively hot after a while. Do you have similar experience?

So I have measured current and it takes via input USB connector from PC:
0.24 A when just connected to usb with no other device,
0.38 A when only external power is connected - more ??????
0.42 A when ext. power + usb headphones connected ????
0.34 A when no power, only usb headphones
So it takes more power when only ext.power is connected then when no ext. and only headphones connected. I don't understand it.
By the way those headphones were not detected by OS, only DACs worked. Also wireless mouse receiver did not worked.

With other noname Chinese isolator for 1/10 price both mouse and usb headset worked, but DACs did not worked.
This isolator takes :
0.06 A with usb headset connected
0.01 A with no device connected.

So each isolator is for different devices/purposes and you will never know what will work for your purpose. But HS-01 will probably work for any DAC which is not USB powered.

What is your experience?

I have not done any current meausuring. I do not use external power. I have the HS-01 connected directly in the D90 MQA -> 10 meter long, shielded, USB cable (brand is Supra) -> 8 port USB hub (brand Asus) with external PSU -> 0,5 meter USB cable, shielded, also Supra -> Brand new Asus laptop (Zenbook S) -> Audirvāna to control Qobuz, Tidal and local Native DSD files (upsamples to DSD 512). The D90 goes in to pre amp -> 3 poweramps -> loudspeakers. I do not use headphones. With that setup the HS-01 gets warm, really warm but that does not worry me (the class A poweramps gets twice as hot). Reason for HS-01 is to minimize clicks and pops when starting DSD playback. It helped a little. I only hear small click sound now when starting DSD 512 playback. Unfortunately it seems impossible to get rid of it….

 

[viperred]

Hello. In response to the post from alwayslooking. I purchased a U90 from Apos also. and my unit has the exact same problem as yours does, it will play every other rate but not 768khz, I also get the bad static breakup. I have been in contact with Topping customer service for the last week, and they reported today that they could not reproduce the problem. They suggested I return the unit. I am weighing my options as I do believe I get an improvement in sq using it.

 

[MikeJ]

Seems like someone tested the HS-01 and it really seems to work some wonders, according to the measurements:

Улучшаем качество звучания ЦАПа: обзор высокоскоростного изолятора Topping HS01 / Hi-Fi и цифровой звук / iXBT Live

Интересуясь тематикой качественного аудио, я все чаще задумываюсь о том, что значения, которые вы видите на коробке или даже у

www-ixbt-com.translate.goog

The URL above is translated from Russian to English.

 

[EchoChamber]

I finally found some time to install the Scientific Conversion transformers I had (purchased directly from them). I had also already installed a Lundhal pulse transformer to try some time ago. I found the Lundhal to provide a subjectively more cohesive presentation compared to stock (that’s the best I can describe it). Now with the SC947-02LF in place, I’ll be able to compare again. I used the surface mount pads on the board to connect the input and output and run a wire to ground for the shield.

Everything sounding good so far, meaning I didn’t break anything… ;-) Of course, lacking the proper testing instruments, I can’t be certain if I improved or not the performance of my U90. I can only rely on my subjective perception. I’ll spend some time listening and going back and forth on my second U90 that still has one of the outputs stock.

Disclaimer: This is electronic surgery… Don’t try it at home if you have never done that before. You can easily damage your board without the proper tools and technique.

 

[srrxr71]

Using a Topping D10 balanced with Canare impedance converter. The genelecs flash a red light every 10 seconds or so. The problem might be the Node I am using to feed it USB. As USB from any other source does not have this issue. Sometimes the red light corresponds to a small “pop”. Sometimes not. Maybe i’m not always hearing it.

Edit: So it seems to be the Node. I came home and only the left speaker was flashing red. Restarted the Node and it’s fine now.

The Topping works fine for me and it has the display as a bonus.

 

[Soren]

I finally found some time to install the Scientific Conversion transformers I had (purchased directly from them). I had also already installed a Lundhal pulse transformer to try some time ago. I found the Lundhal to provide a subjectively more cohesive presentation compared to stock (that’s the best I can describe it). Now with the SC947-02LF in place, I’ll be able to compare again. I used the surface mount pads on the board to connect the input and output and run a wire to ground for the shield.

Everything sounding good so far, meaning I didn’t break anything… ;-) Of course, lacking the proper testing instruments, I can’t be certain if I improved or not the performance of my U90. I can only rely on my subjective perception. I’ll spend some time listening and going back and forth on my second U90 that still has one of the outputs stock.

Disclaimer: This is electronic surgery… Don’t try it at home if you have never done that before. You can easily damage your board without the proper tools and technique.

View attachment 189503View attachment 189504

So let´s hear what you hear?

 

[EchoChamber]

So let´s hear what you hear?

Nothing too conclusive yet… My initial impression was positive though, subjectively more cohesive and detailed with the Scientific Conversion in place versus stock, I’ve been listening through them in both my systems since installed. I guess you could say I’m happy with them. I still want to spend some time comparing with stock and Lundhal. Lundhal sounded subjectively better than stock as well. Subtle differences so not always easy to pin point. Needs a lot of double checking and opinion maturing… lol

I haven’t spent enough time comparing transformers as I’ve also been on a AES/EBU cable frenzy building and comparing different pro cables with different XLR solutions from Neutrik. Once I realized that there could be some gains to be had, I went into this rabbit hole for a while. I’m still debating between 3 models from Belden, Canare and Mogami. The Belden 1800F with Neutrik RF XLR termination might be the one…

Well, I’ve also been glued to my TV and phone following the war in Ukraine, a horrible tragedy… :-( That’s less time for listening and playing with audio gear, getting in the mood is not easy…

 

[Soren]

Nothing too conclusive yet… My initial impression was positive though, subjectively more cohesive and detailed with the Scientific Conversion in place versus stock, I’ve been listening through them in both my systems since installed. I guess you could say I’m happy with them. I still want to spend some time comparing with stock and Lundhal. Lundhal sounded subjectively better than stock as well. Subtle differences so not always easy to pin point. Needs a lot of double checking and opinion maturing… lol

I haven’t spent enough time comparing transformers as I’ve also been on a AES/EBU cable frenzy building and comparing different pro cables with different XLR solutions from Neutrik. Once I realized that there could be some gains to be had, I went into this rabbit hole for a while. I’m still debating between 3 models from Belden, Canare and Mogami. The Belden 1800F with Neutrik RF XLR termination might be the one…

Well, I’ve also been glued to my TV and phone following the war in Ukraine, a horrible tragedy… :-( That’s less time for listening and playing with audio gear, getting in the mood is not easy…

Well as I said, differences between pulsetransformers are subtle but audible.
To me the SC has a bit more refinement to offer, and the sound does not end in the dark, as often with the PT transformer.
A bit annoying, that SC doesn´t do them with a hole through footprint as well. That would indeed make things easier.
The Ukraine war is heartbreaking. There is only one country between Ukraine and my country (Denmark).
We´re receiving refugies from there right now.
May the Force be with them.

 

[Matias]

Archimago measured the HS01 and it does indeed reduce the noise floor from a noisy NUC.

MEASUREMENTS: Topping HS01 - USB 2.0 Isolator & Ground Loop Eliminator (and a listen to Santana's "Blessings and Miracles")

A blog for audiophiles about more objective topics. Measurements of audio gear. Reasonable, realistic, no snakeoil assessment of sound, and equipment.

archimago.blogspot.com