Topping U90 (USB DDC) and HS-01 (USB filter)

[EchoChamber]

Sounds placebo effect to me.....

Subtle for sure, but long time usage seems to be validating my initial impression... There's something there... (I intend to keep my unit and I have ordered a U90 for my main system)

 

[escksu]

Subtle for sure, but long time usage seems to be validating my initial impression... There's something there... (I intend to keep my unit and I have ordered a U90 for my main system)

You will have to back your claims with real evidence.. USB isolators are not new and amrim has reviewed many of them. The best ones does their job by filtering out noise. But non has any "magical" properties like what you have mentioned.

 

[EchoChamber]

You will have to back your claims with real evidence.. USB isolators are not new and amrim has reviewed many of them. The best ones does their job by filtering out noise. But non has any "magical" properties like what you have mentioned.

I’m only saying these are my subjective impressions.

 

[L Plate]

I got both my HS-01 and U90 today. Bought from Shenzhen, China. Delivered by DHL Express. I live in Sweden. Took about one week from order to delivery. HS-01 is really easy. Just plug in and play. I am struggling with U90 IIS protocol to talk with my D90 MQA. Almost there… Both works as expected

Did you find any improvement in sound with U90 and D90MQA setup? Any clicks and pops or short burst of static sound? Sorry I asked because Topping DACs are notoriously known for its compatibility issue with other brands. Are you able to connect more than one output from U90?
I have Singxer SU6, Gustard X16 and D90MQA and D90SE.

Singxer SU6 and Gustard X16 are compatible with each other. No clicks and pops or short burst of static when I play with FOOBAR with different file formats and even when I press Play, STOP, Pause, Forward or Backward.

Singxer SU6 and D90MQA. Horror show!!! Totally incompatible. Clicks and pops or short burst of static at every change of file formats including pressing Play, STOP, Pause, Forward or Backward.

Singxer SU6 does NOT allow more than ONE output. It freezes and will not play. Need to shut down and disconnect one output and resume play.

USB Interface does not play MQA file. But Gustard U18 is interesting because it has XMOS X216 chip which means it might play MQA. As far as I know, Singxer SU6 is using XMOS X208 chip and maybe Topping U90 is similar.

Anyone thinking of investing in USB Interface, better stick to similar brand or you will end up with more grey hairs or going bald. Frustration!

 

[EchoChamber]

Did you find any improvement in sound with U90 and D90MQA setup? Any clicks and pops or short burst of static sound? Sorry I asked because Topping DACs are notoriously known for its compatibility issue with other brands. Are you able to connect more than one output from U90?
I have Singxer SU6, Gustard X16 and D90MQA and D90SE.

Singxer SU6 and Gustard X16 are compatible with each other. No clicks and pops or short burst of static when I play with FOOBAR with different file formats and even when I press Play, STOP, Pause, Forward or Backward.

Singxer SU6 and D90MQA. Horror show!!! Totally incompatible. Clicks and pops or short burst of static at every change of file formats including pressing Play, STOP, Pause, Forward or Backward.

Singxer SU6 does NOT allow more than ONE output. It freezes and will not play. Need to shut down and disconnect one output and resume play.

USB Interface does not play MQA file. But Gustard U18 is interesting because it has XMOS X216 chip which means it might play MQA. As far as I know, Singxer SU6 is using XMOS X208 chip and maybe Topping U90 is similar.

Anyone thinking of investing in USB Interface, better stick to similar brand or you will end up with more grey hairs or going bald. Frustration!

My U90 is working flawlessly with my Pi, no issues there. The ES01 between Pi and X-SPDIF does make a pop when Roon “disengage”, i.e., a few seconds after play has ended. I haven’t verified it happens with the Modius as well… Sonically, I find there are some small differences, not easy to put my finger on... I need to spend more time with it and compare with the X-SPIDF.

PS: I just got the U90 yesterday and haven’t had too much time to listen to it.

 

[L Plate]

My U90 is working flawlessly with my Pi, no issues there. The ES01 between Pi and X-SPDIF does make a pop when Roon “disengage”, i.e., a few seconds after play has ended. I haven’t verified it happens with the Modius as well… Sonically, I find there are some small differences, not easy to put my finger on... I need to spend more time with it and compare with the X-SPIDF.

PS: I just got the U90 yesterday and haven’t had too much time to listen to it.

Does U90 allow you to connect more than one output? Topping's website said it can be connected to several devices. Today, I gave one more shot between SU6 and D90SE to check for compatibility. Nope! Just ain't working.

 

[Superdad]

Does U90 allow you to connect more than one output? Topping's website said it can be connected to several devices. Today, I gave one more shot between SU6 and D90SE to check for compatibility. Nope! Just ain't working.

I am not understanding why you would even want to connect an SU6 and a D90 together. They are both DDCs and their functions are redundant to each other. Please explain.

 

[EchoChamber]

Does U90 allow you to connect more than one output? Topping's website said it can be connected to several devices. Today, I gave one more shot between SU6 and D90SE to check for compatibility. Nope! Just ain't working.

I have not tried, but there are many output options. The manual shows being capable of doing so. I do intend to use both AES outputs when I move it to my main system. Right now I’m only using one AES on my office system.

 

[L Plate]

I am not understanding why you would even want to connect an SU6 and a D90 together. They are both DDCs and their functions are redundant to each other. Please explain.

Singxer SU 6 is a DDC and D90MQA and D90SE are DACs. Did you get confused with U90? I don't own a U90 Topping.

 

[Superdad]

Singxer SU 6 is a DDC and D90MQA and D90SE are DACs. Did you get confused with U90? I don't own a U90 Topping.

Sorry, I did get confused about which units you are trying to use together. Makes sense now.

 

[L Plate]

Sorry, I did get confused about which units you are trying to use together. Makes sense now.

No worries. You probably missed my 1st comment regarding compatibility issue with Topping DAC and other brands of DDC.

 

[Soren]

I´ve had U90 for a few weeks now.
It features the XMOS216 chip FYI.
It can run with several outputs simultaneously.
It is also isolated., but I can´t really say anything about the isolator, as there is no printing on it. The DC-DC converter is a Mornsun B0505S-2WR2.

Generally the U90 looks cheap, and the enclosure is mostly catastrophic.
Inside there is a cheap standard pcb mounted smps from Mornsun type: LD10-23B05R2.
The rest is mostly necessary chips and DC-DC converters with a bit of decoupling.
Clocks are Accusilicon AS318-B-491520 and AS318-B-451584 with claimed femtoseconds performance.
Output pulsetransformers are standard Pulse PE-65612NL, I gues performance can be even better with i.e. Scientific Conversion SC947-2 transformers, which has about 1/30 of the capacitance of the Pulse technologies transformer.

I´ve changed one of the transformers to SC947-2, and thus they can be compared directly.

 

[EchoChamber]

Generally the U90 looks cheap, and the enclosure is mostly catastrophic.

I’m not sure I follow… Would you be able to share images of the inside?

Any measurements or subjective impressions after changing transformer?

 

[Soren]

I’m not sure I follow… Would you be able to share images of the inside?

Any measurements or subjective impressions after changing transformer?

Well here is the pictures I´ve made.
I didn´t do any of the enclosure, but that is crap, it sure is.
The first pic is the main board with everything on it.
Second you se the isolator and pulse transformer.
Next the DC - DC converter.
Last the PCB mounted smps.

Everything works fine, and my subjective impression is really good.
Unfortunately my AP is an older one, with only frequency domaine features, so I can´t attach measurements of any relevance to this product.
But it is subjectively attractive to listen through the SC947-2 transformer compared to the standard Pulse type.
To some it might seem subtile, but there is some kind of black background appearing on the Pulse Technologies transformer, which covers up subtle information present with the SC947-2.
For some nerds a "Black Hole" behind the speakers is simply an awsome feature, but music simply isn´t like that.
Things like that is a product of bad designed electronics.

Anyways I like the U90 except for the enclosure, and the way the pcb is fastened to it, that is really crappy design.

 

[EchoChamber]

Well here is the pictures I´ve made.
I didn´t do any of the enclosure, but that is crap, it sure is.
The first pic is the main board with everything on it.
Second you se the isolator and pulse transformer.
Next the DC - DC converter.
Last the PCB mounted smps.

Everything works fine, and my subjective impression is really good.
Unfortunately my AP is an older one, with only frequency domaine features, so I can´t attach measurements of any relevance to this product.
But it is subjectively attractive to listen through the SC947-2 transformer compared to the standard Pulse type.
To some it might seem subtile, but there is some kind of black background appearing on the Pulse Technologies transformer, which covers up subtle information present with the SC947-2.
For some nerds a "Black Hole" behind the speakers is simply an awsome feature, but music simply isn´t like that.
Things like that is a product of bad designed electronics.

Anyways I like the U90 except for the enclosure, and the way the pcb is fastened to it, that is really crappy design.

I see your point, thank you!

I think the Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 2 would win in build quality being made of a machined block of aluminum. Subjectively, I’m preferring the U90 at this time. Especially on my Pi system.

I’m intrigued with your transformer “mod”… Could you please share the part you’re using? And show how it fits in the PCB? Is the soldering of the transformer smd or through hole? (I haven’t worked with small PCBs in a while, since my FPV days…)

 

[EchoChamber]

Output pulsetransformers are standard Pulse PE-65612NL, I gues performance can be even better with i.e. Scientific Conversion SC947-2 transformers, which has about 1/30 of the capacitance of the Pulse technologies transformer.

I´ve changed one of the transformers to SC947-2, and thus they can be compared directly.

Unfortunately, I don’t think those can be acquired individually from hobbyists… :-(

Their sales page says they only sell direct to manufacturers.

 

[Atanasi]

Anyways I like the U90 except for the enclosure, and the way the pcb is fastened to it, that is really crappy design.

Are all stereo outputs copies of each other, or does it allow more than two independent channels?

 

[Soren]

First things first.
The SC947-2 does not fit in the footprint of the Pulse Technologies (PT) transformer, but it can be done.
SC947-2 is smd, the PT is through hole, but as the pcb has connections between layers in the particular footprint, the SC947-2 can be soldered in place with adjusted pins. The screen however has to be connected with a separate lead to ground on the "Inland" side of the transformer.
A bit complicated, but it can be done.
Scientific Conversion normally trades with professionals only, but I´ve had the pleasure to do business with Jon Paul anyways.
Maybe if you guys order together, then maybe one of you can distribute, just an idea.
The 947-2 is expensive, but not really in terms of hi-fi components, where people spends hundreds of $ buying spooky stuff inferior to industry standards
If it is not possible to get any 947-2, then maybe you should pay attention to Newava S22133, that one might be the second choice, and can be ordered at Digikey.

All stereo outputs on U90 are the same, they are isolated individually with transformers though.
This should secure, that all outputs are impedance matched to 75 Ohm.

On the picture below you´ll se from left t to right: Pulse Technologies, Murata Magnetics and SC947-2.
None of them share footprints, but with a little imagination it works anyway.

 

[EchoChamber]

First things first.
The SC947-2 does not fit in the footprint of the Pulse Technologies (PT) transformer, but it can be done.
SC947-2 is smd, the PT is through hole, but as the pcb has connections between layers in the particular footprint, the SC947-2 can be soldered in place with adjusted pins. The screen however has to be connected with a separate lead to ground on the "Inland" side of the transformer.
A bit complicated, but it can be done.
Scientific Conversion normally trades with professionals only, but I´ve had the pleasure to do business with Jon Paul anyways.
Maybe if you guys order together, then maybe one of you can distribute, just an idea.
The 947-2 is expensive, but not really in terms of hi-fi components, where people spends hundreds of $ buying spooky stuff inferior to industry standards
If it is not possible to get any 947-2, then maybe you should pay attention to Newava S22133, that one might be the second choice, and can be ordered at Digikey.

All stereo outputs on U90 are the same, they are isolated individually with transformers though.
This should secure, that all outputs are impedance matched to 75 Ohm.

On the picture below you´ll se from left t to right: Pulse Technologies, Murata Magnetics and SC947-2.
None of them share footprints, but with a little imagination it works anyway.

Thanks for all the insights! I also found a recommendation for the Newava S22083 and S22160 . The S22083 should be an easier swap. But I’m not sure if it is the equivalent of the S22133 in performance.

To minimize frustrations, I’d probably go for the S22083. And it would be easy to compare if I only replace one AES output - easy to switch back and forth between the 2 outputs...

 

[Soren]

Thanks for all the insights! I also found a recommendation for the Newava S22083 and S22160 . The S22083 should be an easier swap. But I’m not sure if it is the equivalent of the S22133 in performance.

To minimize frustrations, I’d probably go for the S22083. And, it would be easy to compare if I only replace one AES output - easy to switch back and forth between the 2 outputs...

I´ve tried the 22083 (se picture 3rd. from left).
Actually I find the 22083 the worst of them, so better keep you Pulse Technologies.
22083 has an even more pronounced "Black hole" sound, than any of the others, if SC947-2 is no option, go for the S22133, or stay with PT.
Still this is subtle changes in sound character, but striving for transparancy, this is still of significance IMO, and it is impossible to regain, what´s lost at the source.
Anyways if you have an awsome DC => DC converter, why not use an awsome pulse transformer.
Just my dime