Topping U90 (USB DDC) and HS-01 (USB filter)

[L5730]

^ Ah yes. So it doesn't have a DC-DC isolation transformer.
Those little ADuM units all seem to have DC-DC transformers (the big black block that crosses the PCB divide, and isn't the isolator chip).

I'll wait until I see inside the case, or some reviews appear on showing how it works before I jump on it.
There was mention of x kV protection, so I guess there is an isolator chip in there, but maybe not. There isn't one in the iFi Defender AFICT.

 

[Atanasi]

The datasheet says HS01 supports only USB 2 high-speed audio devices, probably only class-compliant. This is in contrast to Intona among others, which strives for universal compatibility. The isolation might work at the audio level instead of USB, as optical isolation for digital audio is simpler than generic USB. I wonder if HS01 passes through multi-channel devices, recording or mixer settings.

 

[merelyok]

I got the U90 in last week and while it worked well for a couple of days, i started getting drop outs in the USB signal. It stopped working altogether after a couple of days. The shop that i got it from was kind enough to swap out a new unit for me. Unfortunately the new unit failed as well, it only played music for an hour or so before the USB port failed ( i am assuming that it is the case as when it was working, the optical output lit up - now even with different USB cables and sources [ Ipad Pro / Lap top / PC ], i am failing to get a USB lock and no output via optical, AES or I2S ).

Will get it down to the shop again to get it looked at but i am pondering what the pertinent issue is ( 2 failed units in a row ? I am starting to think if i did anything wrong? After all the first unit worked well for a couple of days whereas the replacement unit failed after a few hours. I was merely running my ipad pro via USB into the U90 and then via I2s into my D90SE. I can confirm that the D90SE has no issues as my ipad plugged directly into the D90SE works without a hitch ).

Very odd.

 

[EchoChamber]

The U90 is an interesting product… I’m wondering how it compares with the Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 2 when it comes to jitter. I use it to convert USB to AES for my Genelecs. I’m tempted to burn some cash… But the 2 U90 failures make me wonder if early batches are bugged. We really need @amirm to test it… ;-)

 

[Superdad]

The isolation might work at the audio level instead of USB, as optical isolation for digital audio is simpler than generic USB.

Sorry, but that statement makes absolutely no sense. USB is a digital packet interface. The data does not begin to "become" audio-sample-rate digital audio until AFTER a full USB MAC processor (such as XMOS, etc.), when at that time, with audio-rate clocks it becomes an I2S signal.

And while the signal is still in USB form, it can not be passed through simple digital isolators (of any form: optical, RF, giant-magneto-resistive, capacitive, whatever) because USB 2.0 is bi-directional on a single pair of wires--and all digital isolator channels are uni-directional per bit (yes, you can get digital isolator chips packaged with more than one bit per package, but that does not help).

The above is why Intona had to go to great lengths with an FPGA (and their own written MAC core) to monitor direction of the USB data so that they could put it over isolators and do actual galvanic isolation of USB.
We at UpTone did it (in our ISO REGEN) with the only existent (now 3 years defunct since Silanna stopped making) high-speed USB isolator, the Silanna ICE08USB.

So I strongly doubt that the Topping HS01 is delivering actual USB galvanic isolation (unless they found a cheap surplus stash of ICE08USB; last cost on those chips were $50 each). While they might be doing some ground-lift tricks (ala some iFi Audio pieces), it seems a bit misleading for them to call it a USB "Isolator."
It's cheap enough so I ordered one and will have a look.

If audio DACs all had USB 3.0 SuperSpeed inputs this all would be MUCH easier since USB 3 is two differential pairs--one for each direction. Very easy to put though isolators or even to run via fiber optic (SFP transceivers are just two pairs of LVDS--they are not stuck delivering Ethernet!).

 

[halo]

Hi all,

i just wanted to put in my 2 cents about the HS01.
I know most people here are of the bit = bit tribe.
So it must be a 'bit' of a challenge, to believe my observations.

I have just tested the Topping HS01 in my system.
First, I did not believe that I have a ground loop issue in my system.
Everything in my system is grounded and I hear no humming or hissing.
My purify system is dead silent.
I use an RPI 4 with volumio. I own a d30 pro DAC from topping.


But still I was curious for this device.
I am battling the lows in my system for years.
They are overly present or accentuated.
Nothing I did so far had any breakthrough results.
Yes some measures did help a little.
But I was still being annoyed with the bass situation.
I had given up on it.
Then I found out about isolators. And found this HS01 in this forum.
As it is a fairly cheap device , i bought the damn thing as a long shot.

The result: Less bass. No more polluted lows. Less shaking in my room.
(yes the really low notes, are still a problem, but less present. AFAIK it is just one note now which is hindering)
Well, i am truly amazed by the fact alone that it made a difference.

If you think USB and computers are just like bits and bytes and there is no room for improvement, I am here to tell you you are wrong.
The cutting off of the 5V power via the USB to the DAC has definite audible changes. (and would I argue it is better)

 

[EchoChamber]

Hi all,

i just wanted to put in my 2 cents about the HS01.
I know most people here are of the bit = bit tribe.
So it must be a 'bit' of a challenge, to believe my observations.

I have just tested the Topping HS01 in my system.
First, I did not believe that I have a ground loop issue in my system.
Everything in my system is grounded and I hear no humming or hissing.
My purify system is dead silent.
I use an RPI 4 with volumio. I own a d30 pro DAC from topping.


But still I was curious for this device.
I am battling the lows in my system for years.
They are overly present or accentuated.
Nothing I did so far had any breakthrough results.
Yes some measures did help a little.
But I was still being annoyed with the bass situation.
I had given up on it.
Then I found out about isolators. And found this HS01 in this forum.
As it is a fairly cheap device , i bought the damn thing as a long shot.

The result: Less bass. No more polluted lows. Less shaking in my room.
(yes the really low notes, are still a problem, but less present. AFAIK it is just one note now which is hindering)
Well, i am truly amazed by the fact alone that it made a difference.

If you think USB and computers are just like bits and bytes and there is no room for improvement, I am here to tell you you are wrong.
The cutting off of the 5V power via the USB to the DAC has definite audible changes. (and would I argue it is better)

I have one on order and will share my subjective impressions. I’m curious to see how it performs in high SINAD, low distortion systems.

I think one explanation to the differences you are hearing could be related to possible interferences between the components you have connected together to each other. The HS01 might be mitigating it. It’s hard to tell what really is going on without proper testing equipment and a valid methodology.

 

[halo]

I have one on order and will share my subjective impressions. I’m curious to see how it performs in high SINAD, low distortion systems.

I think one explanation to the differences you are hearing could be related to possible interferences between the components you have connected together to each other. The HS01 might be mitigating it. It’s hard to tell what really is going on without proper testing equipment and a valid methodology.

Well yes, please keep us informed.

The interference theory might be true.
But I have changed so many things in my set up, and still it is there.
I used to have schiit gear (vidar + freya tubes)... terrible bass.
I used to have sonos connect, bluos node 2i, Allo Usbridge signature, still would have this interference.

Nowadays I use RPI4 --> Topping HS01 --> denafrips Iris (yes it helps) --> Topping D30Pro

I still have this nagging idea that it is some kind of mains noise..
Testing with audio test tracks I have reason to believe there is resonance from the mains frequencies.
I found it is +5 dB in the 70-80 HZ... however, mains frequency here is 50 Hz...
It is a real enigma

 

[EchoChamber]

Well yes, please keep us informed.

The interference theory might be true.
But I have changed so many things in my set up, and still it is there.
I used to have schiit gear (vidar + freya tubes)... terrible bass.
I used to have sonos connect, bluos node 2i, Allo Usbridge signature, still would have this interference.

Nowadays I use RPI4 --> Topping HS01 --> denafrips Iris (yes it helps) --> Topping D30Pro

I still have this nagging idea that it is some kind of mains noise..
Testing with audio test tracks I have reason to believe there is resonance from the mains frequencies.
I found it is +5 dB in the 70-80 HZ... however, mains frequency here is 50 Hz...
It is a real enigma

The HS01 might have cleared a ground loop that was present in all previous configurations…

 

[Carlo2AC]

Sorry, but that statement makes absolutely no sense. USB is a digital packet interface. The data does not begin to "become" audio-sample-rate digital audio until AFTER a full USB MAC processor (such as XMOS, etc.), when at that time, with audio-rate clocks it becomes an I2S signal.

And while the signal is still in USB form, it can not be passed through simple digital isolators (of any form: optical, RF, giant-magneto-resistive, capacitive, whatever) because USB 2.0 is bi-directional on a single pair of wires--and all digital isolator channels are uni-directional per bit (yes, you can get digital isolator chips packaged with more than one bit per package, but that does not help).

The above is why Intona had to go to great lengths with an FPGA (and their own written MAC core) to monitor direction of the USB data so that they could put it over isolators and do actual galvanic isolation of USB.
We at UpTone did it (in our ISO REGEN) with the only existent (now 3 years defunct since Silanna stopped making) high-speed USB isolator, the Silanna ICE08USB.

So I strongly doubt that the Topping HS01 is delivering actual USB galvanic isolation (unless they found a cheap surplus stash of ICE08USB; last cost on those chips were $50 each). While they might be doing some ground-lift tricks (ala some iFi Audio pieces), it seems a bit misleading for them to call it a USB "Isolator."
It's cheap enough so I ordered one and will have a look.

If audio DACs all had USB 3.0 SuperSpeed inputs this all would be MUCH easier since USB 3 is two differential pairs--one for each direction. Very easy to put though isolators or even to run via fiber optic (SFP transceivers are just two pairs of LVDS--they are not stuck delivering Ethernet!).

Have you gotten your hands on it yet friend?

 

[Superdad]

Have you gotten your hands on it yet friend?

I ordered it from Apos Audio, the supposed USA importer, on November 22–but it shipped from China and has been 3 weeks and counting. Hopefully it will arrive soon.

 

[Veri]

I ordered it from Apos Audio, the supposed USA importer, on November 22–but it shipped from China and has been 3 weeks and counting. Hopefully it will arrive soon.

Yeah, december packages are painfully slow throughout the world right now. Given corona, and christmas/end-year coming up there must be an absurd amount being processed.

 

[Superdad]

Yeah, december packages are painfully slow throughout the world right now.

Except that the very slick website of Apos Audio promotes themselves as the USA importer for the brands they carry (including Topping, SMSL, SingXer, Audeze, etc.). I ordered from them to have the product shipped here domestically. But it seems that in reality (and based on reviews I have since read) they are not an actual importer--just an order site that has made drop-ship arrangements with a bunch of brands. And in doing so they manage to undercut actual USA importers who hold and ship from their own stock.

 

[EchoChamber]

Except that the very slick website of Apos Audio promotes themselves as the USA importer for the brands they carry (including Topping, SMSL, SingXer, Audeze, etc.). I ordered from them to have the product shipped here domestically. But it seems that in reality (and based on reviews I have since read) they are not an actual importer--just an order site that has made drop-ship arrangements with a bunch of brands. And in doing so they manage to undercut actual USA importers who hold and ship from their own stock.

In the past they shipped from CA. I ordered a few products with them in 2020 from Topping and Matrix. It crossed the US from west to east cost in a couple of days. My guess is that these new Topping products are too new and they don’t have a stock in the US yet. It might be shipping directly from Topping… The HS01 I ordered is now in Germany…

 

[Bertel]

I am looking for a device to provide DSD1024 to the Topping D90SE over i2s (or IIS as Topping call it), and was under the impression that this is what the U90 does, but have to find from the specs that the IIS output of the U90 only goes up to DSD512…
@WolfX-700 Is this something you were able to clarify in your test/measurement/review?
@JohnYang1997 can I ask you to comment on whether the U90 is or will be able to output DSD1024 over IIS, or whether there‘s a different product in the Topping line of products that allows for that?

 

[EchoChamber]

I got my HS01 this morning, very minimal (I like the form factor, no frills). We’ll see if there’s any subjective changes in sound. I intend to use it with my Modius DAC and between my Pi and X-SPDIF 2.

 

[EchoChamber]

I had a chance to play with the HS01 today on both my headphone desk system and home office system.

It seems a little finicky to set up, it will work if I first connect it to the DAC then power it, give it a few seconds to boot and then connect to the source. At first I couldn’t make it work with my Pi. With the Pi, I powered the Pi after everything else was powered. It will rapid blink the red LED for a second to give you feedback it has recognized the input.

The two setups are as follow:

Headphone system
MacBook Air M1 running the Roon client app -> Apple USB/HDMI dongle -> HS01 powered by an Allo Nirvana (5VDC) -> Modius -> Magnius -> Hifiman Sundara
Non generic cables are DIY, balanced, with Neutrik termination. Headphone using Canare microphone cable, analog XLR using Supra DAC cable.

Speaker system
Pi 3B+ running RoPieee XL -> HS01 -> X-SPIDIF 2 -> Genelec 8330A
Power supply is an Allo Shanti with two 5VDC outputs. The 3A output powers the Pi and the 1A is connected to the HS01 and powers the X-SPDIF 2. Without the HS01, I only use the 3A output to power the Pi and the X-SPDIF 2 is powered by USB from the Pi.

The sonic differences are subtle but audible. The systems did not sound different tonally (thank god!), but there was a sense of greater clarity and transparency, especially on the high frequencies. I went back and forth a few times (level matched on the headphone system - I did not touch the volume knob or anything else in the amp). For this initial comparison I mainly listened to Dave Brubeck’s Take Five first track from the album Our Favorites (I think my favorite performance and recording of Take Five).

With the Modius DAC on the headphone system I compared 3 configurations:

1- Powered by the MacBook Air USB port - sounded more fatiguing and not as clear as other configurations.

2- Powered by the Nirvana PS (no HS01) - sounded smoother overall, no obvious listening fatigue.

3- Powered by the HS01 (powered by the Nirvana) - still smooth, but with more apparent clarity on the high frequencies, music felt more engaging.

These are my subjective impressions of course, but it seems that there are some subtle improvements when isolating DAC from computer.

I’ll spend sone time listening with the HS01 in the speaker system for the next 2 weeks and switch with and without back and forth a few times for longer periods of time to see if my long term impressions are the same.

 

[Rover]

I am looking for a device to provide DSD1024 to the Topping D90SE over i2s (or IIS as Topping call it), and was under the impression that this is what the U90 does, but have to find from the specs that the IIS output of the U90 only goes up to DSD512…
@WolfX-700 Is this something you were able to clarify in your test/measurement/review?
@JohnYang1997 can I ask you to comment on whether the U90 is or will be able to output DSD1024 over IIS, or whether there‘s a different product in the Topping line of products that allows for that?

512 is the maximum.1024 no.Everything is clear in the instructions .

 

[Bertel]

512 is the maximum.1024 no.Everything is clear in the instructions .

Thanks - and exactly, Topping Support confirmed that today. Find it a bit strange, as the D90SE accepts DSD1024 over IIS but their own USB to IIS bridge does not allow for that…
Anyway, need to find another way / device to output DSD1024 over (configurable) IIS.

 

[escksu]

I had a chance to play with the HS01 today on both my headphone desk system and home office system.

It seems a little finicky to set up, it will work if I first connect it to the DAC then power it, give it a few seconds to boot and then connect to the source. At first I couldn’t make it work with my Pi. With the Pi, I powered the Pi after everything else was powered. It will rapid blink the red LED for a second to give you feedback it has recognized the input.

The two setups are as follow:

Headphone system
MacBook Air M1 running the Roon client app -> Apple USB/HDMI dongle -> HS01 powered by an Allo Nirvana (5VDC) -> Modius -> Magnius -> Hifiman Sundara
Non generic cables are DIY, balanced, with Neutrik termination. Headphone using Canare microphone cable, analog XLR using Supra DAC cable.

Speaker system
Pi 3B+ running RoPieee XL -> HS01 -> X-SPIDIF 2 -> Genelec 8330A
Power supply is an Allo Shanti with two 5VDC outputs. The 3A output powers the Pi and the 1A is connected to the HS01 and powers the X-SPDIF 2. Without the HS01, I only use the 3A output to power the Pi and the X-SPDIF 2 is powered by USB from the Pi.

The sonic differences are subtle but audible. The systems did not sound different tonally (thank god!), but there was a sense of greater clarity and transparency, especially on the high frequencies. I went back and forth a few times (level matched on the headphone system - I did not touch the volume knob or anything else in the amp). For this initial comparison I mainly listened to Dave Brubeck’s Take Five first track from the album Our Favorites (I think my favorite performance and recording of Take Five).

With the Modius DAC on the headphone system I compared 3 configurations:

1- Powered by the MacBook Air USB port - sounded more fatiguing and not as clear as other configurations.

2- Powered by the Nirvana PS (no HS01) - sounded smoother overall, no obvious listening fatigue.

3- Powered by the HS01 (powered by the Nirvana) - still smooth, but with more apparent clarity on the high frequencies, music felt more engaging.

These are my subjective impressions of course, but it seems that there are some subtle improvements when isolating DAC from computer.

I’ll spend sone time listening with the HS01 in the speaker system for the next 2 weeks and switch with and without back and forth a few times for longer periods of time to see if my long term impressions are the same.


View attachment 172083

Sounds placebo effect to me.....