Topping RD3 TP Balanced DAC Review

[Waxx]

What is not rugged enough? And what ruggedness do you need for studio use?

This won't be used for studio use, then you need AES input connectors and multiple outs (with selector for the outputs) for the monitors and master recorders. And with a seperate monitor controller, this is also not really usefull as most have quiet decent convertors build in, and a too complex system is never popular.

This would maybe be used in bars or on high power soundsystem, and then that cabinet is not rugged, the connectors are cheap and will break down fast in such a harsh enviroment and the board is probally not secured (read: all components glued) against heavy vibrations, or splash proof. And there is a lot of concurrency in that market, with quiet decent but rugged devices, and for that that rugged is more important than sinad or other audio qualities.

I worked in pro audio for 10 years (untill my back killed that carreer) and was dj for 25 years, and we would never use these, whatever the soundquality is. It's not fit for the road on durability and not fit for a music studio on function. It's a hifi device in a rack format, but without the looks that hifi people want today. I don't know if there is a market for this in Asia, but in Europe it will be a very small niche, and most will go for the smaller package. The technical quality of it is very good altough, more than good enough in reality for hifi use.

 

[frabor]

The case is not "e-waste".
I am thinking that you did not consider the possibility that they are spreading things out to maintain their cool & longevity? (A problem that some of their gear has had).
Also, it is designed to fit the form factor (a particular set of external measurements [you cannot have it both ways, it specifies that it is a rack mount, it appears to be a rack mount when you look at it {if you have never owned a rack, the components being stacked together & many times not put in a place with generous airflow, generates a lot of heat, so it is designed appropriately for that purpose, which is why it has a lot of what you call "wasted space"]}) of a rack mount item.
I, on the other hand, say "It's wonderful that they designed something that is appropriate for being mounted in a rack and is designed to mitigate the problems of being mounted in a rack". Many have complained that the gear does not fit their racks.
If this one does not meet the the requirements you have for what you call "wasted space" or for any other reason. you may always decide to purchase a different unit that meets your criteria. That is why their are many choices.
Different strokes for different folks & needs. This stuff is not "one size fits all".

I work on IT where racks are stacked with a combination of full size rack equipment and smaller equipment in trays or adapters. As an example, a fiber to coper single port Ethernet adapter is too small, and many routers and modems are like this. Some brands, like Fortigate sell metal brackets so you can mount your small unit in your rack if that was the customer deciced.

In this particular case it's a dac, that consumes very little power and a power supply, that probably generates most of the heat. If heat management was the issue, they could place the power supply outside.

Regardig if the metal case is waste or not is not so simple. Even when properly disposed at a place that does type of work, the labor to take out the boards and separate the metal exceeds the recoverable value. If the case was made out of aluminum or the PCB had a lot of gold, like in military surplus, the parts would be separated and processed. More than likely this would get chopped into a million pieces without reprocess.

At the end of the day not creating waste is a better option than recycling.

Also this is neither a pro equipment designed for touring or for professional use, so the real need to the rack format is arguable.

I do understand that it looks neat ( it really does )and some people may be interested on the rack format, but it is my opinion that a smaller case and a rack adapter would have been the best engineering solution with the minimal waste of materials

 

[amirm]

Think of this. The largest distortion generators in our home theater are the HT room and your loudspeakers by factors of 5x or more. For example, take a top-notch subwoofer outside and measure its distortion levels within decent dB levels (say under 100dB) between 20Hz - 200Hz. SOTA subwoofers will have THD levels under 1% .... outside at a 2 meters distance. Now, take the same subwoofer and place it in the best or optimal location in your room, the same 2m distance and again measure the same distortion at similar dB levels. The in-room distortion will be 5% to 15% (especially at resonance). What changed? The room of course... yet we don't much fret about our distortion-generating rooms. Why?

Room reflections are linear in nature. They cannot by definition create distortion, i.e. new frequencies that did not exist in the source. If you have rattles and buzzes, sure, but not straight reflections.

You will however measure different relative THD due to room modes causing frequency response changes. That would make the ratio different and manifest in a different number, up or down, but not because any distortion is added by the room.

I have measured speakers with SINAD in the 80s which is actually the limit of the measurement system. Mechanical devices if used well below their max playback level can be surprisingly linear. And of course, they have infinite signal to noise ratio since if you remove the signal, they don't play anything.

 

[respice finem]

It would be awesome that manufacturers would offer upgraded boards to replace what is inside the units. Even my small d50s has some extra space inside the case..

This. The optimum would be a vendor independent modular system (as the PCI and ATX were for PC).
Not likely to happen, alas. If it would exist, the unit could probably accomodate several - like HPA, DSP...

 

[DearSX]

I guess they want to compete with Benchmark:

 

[Hipocrates]

I like my equipment on display and I like purposeful looking equipment not the bland, sculpted minimalism that's the current fashion.

It is a very nice looking equipment

 

[CleanSound]

So while I agree there's no professional market for this product there's people like me who like rack mount ears, grab handles, level meters, and, ideally, every function accessible with its own button or switch on the front panel.

Very few companies catering for my aesthetic tastes right now so we have to go pro, or vintage, or like with this Topping, 'faux-pro'.

There is a reason why it's called personal preference and taste, it's personal and there is nothing right or wrong about it.

My comment is really more about the target market. I don't think your taste and preference is big enough of an market for Topping to start a brand new branding/line. So still begs the question, which market segment is this TP brand aiming for? Either identity crisis or terrible understanding of North American and European market (assuming they did research on the market of their own domestic market in China).

 

[Saponetto]

The RA3 amp and its companion dac RD3 seems not to be present yet on Audiophonics.
Just curious to see how much they will cost here in Europe.

 

[Mart68]

There is a reason why it's called personal preference and taste, it's personal and there is nothing right or wrong about it.

My comment is really more about the target market. I don't think your taste and preference is big enough of an market for Topping to start a brand new branding/line. So still begs the question, which market segment is this TP brand aiming for? Either identity crisis or terrible understanding of North American and European market (assuming they did research on the market of their own domestic market in China).

I never said a word about right or wrong?

Perhaps there is a substantial faux-pro market in the Far East? Maybe they are trying to start a trend?

 

[CleanSound]

I never said a word about right or wrong?

I was just saying, personal preference is personal preference and everyone is entitled to it. Therefore, there is not right or wrong.

Perhaps there is a substantial faux-pro market in the Far East? Maybe they are trying to start a trend?

That can be a likely possibility and if so, that won't work in North American and European markets. Hence, I say they don't understand the North American and European market place.

 

[Rednaxela]

I guess they want to compete with Benchmark:

View attachment 306370

That’s actually a very good point.

 

[Sokel]

I guess they want to compete with Benchmark:

View attachment 306370

The big difference is that you have a choice,ears or no ears (see the last option)

 

[DearSX]

The big differentiator is that you have a choice,ears or no ears (see the last option)

That is a bit of a difference, Topping does this in way by offering a ton of different DACs in different sizes. Personally I don't mind any of them, I'm ok with putting even the rack mount one on my TV Stand/Cabinet, hardly makes a difference to me. Performance, price and features is what matters to me first generally.

 

[Matias]

The RA3 amp and its companion dac RD3 seems not to be present yet on Audiophonics.
Just curious to see how much they will cost here in Europe.

This line is sold only by Topping directly on AliExpress AFAIK.

 

[Sokel]

That is a bit of a difference, Topping does this in way by offering a ton of different DACs in different sizes.

If "bit" is buy or not like I wouldn't,so...

(I have declared myself as the most superficial here,can't help it)

 

[DearSX]

If "bit" is buy or not like I wouldn't,so...

(I have declared myself as the most superficial here,can't help it)

Everyone has preferences and things that work for them. I think part of buying something is the "idea of why" a product exists somethings matters to people. Like people by things because its efficient, or green or cause it comes from a great company etc.

 

[Sokel]

Everyone has preferences and things that work for them. I think part of buying something is the "idea of why" a product exists somethings matters to people. Like people by things because its efficient, or green or cause it comes from a great company etc.

That's really important,been green and most of all respect your employers,it did help choosing my amps.

 

[Saponetto]

This line is sold only by Topping directly on AliExpress AFAIK.

Thanks a lot for the info.

 

[CleanSound]

Dentist's Office, Coffee Shop, Small/Medium Cafeteria, Apartment Community Room, Mall Store, thousands of use cases. Luxury homes where the owners want the electronics for each room's inwalls hidden, less prone to failure by being unplugged/knocked around.

Ask a small business/home integrator about the value of making fewer service calls because a clueless employee spilled coffee on a tabletop component. Rack mounting was originally designed to be a tool, not a decorative expression.

ocinn nailed it. Dentist's office, coffee shop and other small business don't give a ounce about low THD+N, they will hire someone to install whatever works. The installer will not be picking a Topping. In fact, I am willing to bet that you'll be lucky if there are more than a handful of small business installers that offers Topping.

Uh, yeah absolutely not. Those people are going to be buying solutions that are 1/2 as expensive and much more compact per channel. Why would you spend $114 and 0.5U per ch, when you could spend $58 and 0.17U/ch, or spend the same amount and get more watts and more channel count?

Not to mention in professional deployments like malls, cafeterias, and high-end homes, these amps are fed via a distribution processor (Q-Sys, Symetrix), so the DAC is pointless. And for cafe's etc, they are either fed via a streamer, or an ipad. Not one cafe or dentist office owner is going to spend $229 on a DAC (unless it is a predatory invoice addition by the integration firm), When an Apple dongle does the job just fine.

So in short. The Amp is 2x overpriced for pro use, underpowered, and takes up a ton of space, doesn't have pro audio features (speakon/pheonix). And the dac is absurdly overpriced (the M300se is $100 cheaper, and wipes the floor with the RD3 in every metric), and also completely useless in pro audio settings (no aes, no word clock, no dante, no ADAT, no >4v output, no pheonix, no network control). Both of these make no sense on why they exist.


Or you can buy the higher performing, better looking, smaller, PA5 II... Which I assume is just an RA3 without all the wasted sheet metal.

100% here. It's clear that this is meant for personal use. But again, what kind of niche market in personal use are they aiming for with these TP brand? Identity crisis.

 

[CleanSound]

JohnYang1997's AMA thread had a few answers about the TP brand:

This is why I keep saying Topping doesn't understand markets outside of their domestic market. This makes no sense whatsoever.

If I want a physically larger unit, that generally means I have the space. In North America, if I can afford a house with larger space, GENERALLY (don't get all pissy offended now, this is just a generalization) means, I am financially more capable than someone who lives in an apartment (which is generally more cost effective) with lesser space and usually more established in their career. Why do I need insane cost : performance ratio gear? I would be willing to spend the money.

On the other hand, their desktop DAC costs so much more, maybe in China (their local domestic market) there are more headphone users, so I guess this makes more sense for their domestic market. Or maybe the people who are more financially well off, lives in apartments in city centers with smaller space. And maybe the people who lives in houses in their domestic market lives in the country side and are less financially able, so the TP line make sense?

Then John goes to say "slightly longer range use like in living room or listening room." I go back to saying, this rack mount black box simply does not go well with a living space for a lot of people. And if I am rich enough to have a listening room (assuming he meant proper listening room that is treated with nice furnitures, etc.) then I am rich enough where I don't need this insane cost : performance ratio and I am probably rich enough to care about aesthetics.

This TP line is either a misguided business decision or the utter lack of understanding of international markets.