It has a remote and it's relay based volume. These two alone can completely redefine pre90 from A90. Pre90 is the preparation for the following power amps. A90 may work and it will work for quite a few people. But pre90 is very different.
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Topping preamp
- Thread starter typericey
- Start date
Yep. Pre90 has a screen and with safe volume implementation that has a very natural user logic. It also remembers volume for each input.
Feedback is very important. But don't forget that there are many other people. Any single individual is just one piece of the whole thing.
Also, judging products before the product launch is not feedback.
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
Look, you know your market. And if your market tells you it wants tiny stuff, that's fine.
Bear in mind the tiny Chinese stuff was just cheap fun gear at first. Disposable, low performance and not remotely serious. Now it's getting really good and necessarily bigger. Thanks to designers like yourself.
But also beware foisting form factors on customers with the justification of manufacturing and shipping costs being too high for full sized gear. All that does is immediately suggest the gear is a compromise. Serious audiophiles and HiFi hobbyists don't compromise and pay for what they want. But again, that may not be the market you are targeting, I don't know.
what is the goal you’re aiming for with the pre90? D90 to pre90 to power amp? All to fit on a desk form factor?
Like I said, for different products, they can be larger. Just don't be surprised when it's priced over 1000 dollars. You do know how much dealers undercut right?Look, you know your market. And if your market tells you it wants tiny stuff, that's fine.
Bear in mind the tiny Chinese stuff was just cheap fun gear at first. Disposable, low performance and not remotely serious. Now it's getting really good and necessarily bigger. Thanks to designers like yourself.
But also beware foisting form factors on customers with the justification of manufacturing and shipping costs being too high for full sized gear. All that does is immediately suggest the gear is a compromise. Serious audiophiles and HiFi hobbyists don't compromise and pay for what they want. But again, that may not be the market you are targeting, I don't know.
BTW what do you mean full sized gear. Gear can only be smaller and bigger. Those mono blocks sheesh.
A recent personal situation update. I'm going to work with Topping for somewhat long term now. They value me very much, and the R&D has really good working atmosphere.
We are working our way to the higher price range, larger, more "serious" products with less compromises.
A side note, compromises and clever workarounds are where engineering happens. If you don't have constraints, you may just end up with a generic product that's the same as everyone else's
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Pre90 will work in different situations. The power amp wise it's going to be larger than we initially planned. And the release date is again pushed later. Perhaps next year.... The pre90 will be released pretty soon, but can't tell when.
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I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I don't know anyone who equates size with "compromise". I don't see many people complaining about the Buchardt A500 Bundle for $5,000 or Naim's all in one streamer DAC and amp for $5,000. If anything, these days, the smaller products have MORE allure, not less, because their small size tends to convey advanced technology. Does anyone really want a 30 lb DAC the size of a Marantz receiver? To me, big means yesterday.
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
When you are talking size and costs, it's all about how many you can fit in a 20ft or 40ft can. Most small volume, high dollar HiFi in the 80s through late 90s/00s came in air freight, so no containers, but the high volume, low-med value gear came in containers with 6-8 week lead times. Don't know how that has changed, except Co-Vid19 wrecking everything.
I guess unless Topping have distributors and/or DCs in the bigger countries, then most of their gear goes in small quantities direct to either end users or smaller distributors/resellers, and size/weight is a serious issue for freight costs.
The world has certainly changed in terms of the distribution and sales of high fidelity gear, but substance and build quality still go hand in hand with pride of ownership and long term satisfaction. If the weight of an XLR cable pulls something off the shelf- it aint HiFi. If you can't plug a 1/4" headphone jack into a device without it skidding or moving- it aint quality HiFi. If you have to put your hand on the top to stop it moving when you plug anything in, then sadly, what you have is just a toy.
Funny you say that. My Marantz DA-12LE (companion to the CD-12/DA-12LE pair) DAC weighs 31 lb. The transport weighs the same. Inside is a copper plated die-cast chassis with three potted toroidal transformers and unbelievable build quality. It cost AU$6,000 in 1991 and they sell for more than that today, as they are so rare. All it has needed in nearly 30 years is a few loading belts...
We have many distributors across countries. But once you export to somewhere. The shipping cost is just something to worry about. And of course there is a certain amount that go straight on aliexpress. Schiit products sells twice the price in Australia while it's all the same across countries for Topping. Then you know what's going on.When you are talking size and costs, it's all about how many you can fit in a 20ft or 40ft can. Most small volume, high dollar HiFi in the 80s through late 90s/00s came in air freight, so no containers, but the high volume, low-med value gear came in containers with 6-8 week lead times. Don't know how that has changed, except Co-Vid19 wrecking everything.
I guess unless Topping have distributors and/or DCs in the bigger countries, then most of their gear goes in small quantities direct to either end users or smaller distributors/resellers, and size/weight is a serious issue for freight costs.
The world has certainly changed in terms of the distribution and sales of high fidelity gear, but substance and build quality still go hand in hand with pride of ownership and long term satisfaction. If the weight of an XLR cable pulls something off the shelf- it aint HiFi. If you can't plug a 1/4" headphone jack into a device without it skidding or moving- it aint quality HiFi. If you have to put your hand on the top to stop it moving when you plug anything in, then sadly, what you have is just a toy.
Funny you say that. My Marantz DA-12LE (companion to the CD-12/DA-12LE pair) DAC weighs 31 lb. The transport weighs the same. Inside is a copper plated die-cast chassis with three potted toroidal transformers and unbelievable build quality. It cost AU$6,000 in 1991 and they sell for more than that today, as they are so rare. All it has needed in nearly 30 years is a few loading belts...
The product is 222mm wide. It's just tiny. Why not just double the height and add a whole row of connectors? Call it the A-90x2.
The standard for full size HiFi gear was 420-440mm. Pioneer was 420mm, Sony, Sansui were 430mm Yamaha, Denon 435mm, Akai 440mm. They could all stack together. They all had space for plenty of inputs, outputs and future expansion. Expansion went vertically when they ran out of lateral space. Witness the AVRs that were a foot tall with hundreds of connectors.
In the interests of "minimalism", you've lost the ability for flexibility and facility. Audiophiles always end up plugging more stuff together, be in now or in the future. The better the gear, the more sources you want to use with it.
It will go full circle, just like it has done several times in the last 60+ years. The very first HiFi was monoblock amplifiers, preamplifiers, and source components. Then in the 60s along came "integrated" amplifiers. Then in the 70s, integrating the tuner and pursuing high power, low THD started a receiver power/performance race. Then in the 80s, integrateds devolved into high performance pre/power combos again. Then D/A's in the preamps in the 90s. Then surround. Phew. It goes on and on.
The cycle of a pile of disparate mini separates is almost over IMO. Witness the pictures of random heaps of non-matching "desktop" stuff you see in this and other forums. It's kids' stuff. No mature audiophile with money to spend and a nice house wants things that look more at home in mom's basement. SOTA integrated and SOTA D/A equipped amplifiers/streamers with multiple inputs are going to be the space saver and money savers once again.
Imagine if Topping designed a SOTA all in one product that had styling cues from B&O and all the flexibilty of true audiophile gear? Aspirational, stylish, a decent size that doesn't look like a toy and was premium priced.
Just my 2c.
The dimensions of my listening/living room room are 29' L X 26'W Lft side ceiling is 8 ft middle of ceiling is 12.5' with vertical drop to 8' again.
A Dual 1229 runs into an APT/Holman pre which line outs to another Apt Holman Pre on the other side of the room. That has a Technics SL-M3, an OPPO 205, a Kenwood cassette deck, an Akai RTR and a NAD 4300 Tuner going into it. It feeds a TRIPLET set of NAD 2200's (one in stereo for a pair of subs running at 2 Ohms from 15Hz-80 Hz, the other 2 in bridged mono for L & R 6 Ohm Dahlquist 905's from 60Hz to 24 KHz. Headphones? For critical listening? Never. But: Wireless Sennheiser TS180 (for when I am using my hands and moving about the home). STD size stuff that keeps things looking somewhat standardized.
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Neale
Member
Sounds like congratulations are in order
Yes, congratulations are in order! Woo-Hoo!
I've never equated size or weight with sound quality, but I will agree that it is annoying to have light units move around so easily. Perhaps manufacturers could make weight an option, much like the external finish. A heavy metal plate of whatever thickness you want could be slid into a pocket and those customers who want that extra weight could pay extra for it. "I'll have a 2 lb Topping preamp with the black finish, oh, what the heck, go ahead and make it a 3 pounder" or "I hear that Schiit is making the Freya+ with a 50 lb version for those that live in earthquake zones or have more than 5 kids".
Congratulations. Well done Mr. Yang.
Glad they saw what we've all seen for even longer.
You're not only a clearly skilled engineer, you are one of those who actually gives a shit about getting it right.
I hope to see your 'no compromise' products (product line?) soon. Don't underestimate the willingness of people to pay what it takes to get that kind of product.
I would love to see a revival of the 'old school' integrated amp with a balance knob, tone controls, and maybe even a contour knob. Wishful thinking, I know, but if it came from your bench it would be kick-ass.
Anyway, Cheers on the permanent job situation.
Does it remember volume for each input on the extender too?
Of course, yes.
When you attach (any, not just decent ones) cables, they tilt up, slide to the back of what they are on & sometimes fall off of what they are on. This kills any WAF that you may have worked hard to convince your partner it's OK. Attaching double sided thick sticky tape or Velcro also kills the WAF.
These type of products are useless to me because they are unacceptable in the living/listening room (unless I can find a suitable, basically invisible way to hold them in place). It's bad enough to get the wires organized in such a way to be acceptable. Now they came up with a way to make the equipment itself unacceptable, by having it tilt like a hydraulic suspension car with its front in the air and it a** dragging the ground.
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