Topping Pre90 Review (preamplifier)

[Grael]

Does this Pre90 have individual input volume control separated from main volume control?

You can use a mode "Vol memory IN" where each input will set (and remember) a different volume level
(But not sure what you mean by "main volume control")

Extract from the user manual here https://www.tpdz.net/newsinfo/457846.html

 

[Frontino]

I mean I want to be able to set master level 0 dB of the Pre90 as a calibrated reference and lower input level independently from that, to reduce gain of external amp.

 

[Grael]

I mean I want to be able to set master level 0 dB of the Pre90 as a calibrated reference and lower input level independently from that, to reduce gain of external amp.

Well, it's not working like that...
You can have independent volume level on each input, which should be enough in my opinion...

On top of that, there is a "safe volume mode", to set the highest volume level when you switch to any input.

 

[marcom22]

I mean I want to be able to set master level 0 dB of the Pre90 as a calibrated reference and lower input level independently from that, to reduce gain of external amp.

Useless! The Pre90 has the master level at -99db and you can raise the volume indipendentely for input. So yes, it works at opposite of your mind and this way of wark is also safer than yours. No worries, stay safe

 

[kolestonin]

I went through the whole thread looking for a solution to extend the range of the remote controller.
What is suggested is:

1. take the remote apart and wrap the sender in aluminum foil
2. use an IR remote control extender

1 is not an option for me as I am terrible at DIY and I am afraid I will break my remote.

But I would like to give 2 a try so I need some advice as I never used such a thing.

What do I need exactly?
Is somebody using an IR extender which does the job?
May I ask for a link?

 

[Grael]

Is somebody using an IR extender which does the job?
May I ask for a link?

I'm using a Metronic extender with 3 outputs to drive my Toppings (E50 dac and pre90).
Not sure it's available outside of France but similar devices should work too.

https://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B003K17194

I just set the outputs just under the IR receivers of each device.

 

[dped90]

This week sent this new product request to Topping Support:

When Kal Rubinson compared the Pre90 preamp to the $17K Pass Labs preamp I was amazed that he found the sound quality not too far apart between the two. https://www.stereophile.com/content/topping-pre90-line-preamplifier

But then I read this review of the Parasound JC-2? John Atkinson was certainly impressed when he compared it to his Levinson 380S preamp. https://www.stereophile.com/solidpreamps/308para/index.html#comment-611314

Of course, neither of those preamps would work for the 5.1 system I want to build. And unlike the Topping Pre90 and EXT90, I certainly couldn't afford to buy two of those expensive preamps to make it happen!

BUT what if Topping had offered a 5.1 preamp that sounded (to Rubinson and Atkinson) every bit as great as the Parasound JC-2 and/or the Levinson 380S, but perhaps for only ~ $2K?

AND what if this new preamp included these new features?

Five Channels for front, rear, center speaker and subwoofer.

Balanced driver input/output: At least one stereo pair.

Better Quality Remote: While Atkinson complained of build quality and functionality issues with the JC-2 preamp's remote, Rubinson didn't like the Pre90's remote either. Please read his complaints about it in the above review.

Interchannel left/right Balance Control: I agree with Rubinson that said some users would miss having this in the Pre90.

Improved power supply design: Low DA, ESR supply filter and film bypass capacitors and more changes to further improve sonic realism.

In Atkinson's review, read how he describes the way the Parasound JC-2 preamp makes a bunch of his favorite recordings sound incredibly life like in the above review!! What if the new Topping 5.1 preamp could equal the JC-2's performance in every such respect?

Given the Pre90/EXT90's stunning reception by the audiophile community, a Topping 5.1 channel preamp with the above improvements and features that sells for ~ $2K (hardly a lot of money in the North American audiophile market) would win over countless thousands more who complain that superb sounding two channel preamps had to cost > $4K.

Please consider designing and launching this new 5.1 preamp in 2023!

Happily, Topping replied that they will discuss these suggestions with their R & D department.

 

[marcom22]

I want to change my Pre90 with A90Discrete ......... yes I will

 

[iLoveCats]

In regards to the miserable remote control for the Pre90, I have been using an IR repeater, but now I have programmed a sofabaton U1 remote control to the pre90. You have to use the learning function and learn what buttons from the pre90 remote that you actually need.

Big warning on the sofabaton learning function with the pre90 remote in regards to the volume control: If the status bar on the phone app shows it failed, stop what you are doing, clear the button on the app, re-pair the remote to the app and try it again. You have to learn the volume control in one, clean try.

I found that if the remote fails to learn the volume button on the first try and you allow it to continue to try and learn without stopping, clearing and re-pairing, it will record multiple button presses of the remote. So you can press volume up or down 1 time and the pre90 will jump 10!

 

[dtaylo1066]

This week sent this new product request to Topping Support:

When Kal Rubinson compared the Pre90 preamp to the $17K Pass Labs preamp I was amazed that he found the sound quality not too far apart between the two. https://www.stereophile.com/content/topping-pre90-line-preamplifier

But then I read this review of the Parasound JC-2? John Atkinson was certainly impressed when he compared it to his Levinson 380S preamp. https://www.stereophile.com/solidpreamps/308para/index.html#comment-611314

Of course, neither of those preamps would work for the 5.1 system I want to build. And unlike the Topping Pre90 and EXT90, I certainly couldn't afford to buy two of those expensive preamps to make it happen!

BUT what if Topping had offered a 5.1 preamp that sounded (to Rubinson and Atkinson) every bit as great as the Parasound JC-2 and/or the Levinson 380S, but perhaps for only ~ $2K?

AND what if this new preamp included these new features?

Five Channels for front, rear, center speaker and subwoofer.

Balanced driver input/output: At least one stereo pair.

Better Quality Remote: While Atkinson complained of build quality and functionality issues with the JC-2 preamp's remote, Rubinson didn't like the Pre90's remote either. Please read his complaints about it in the above review.

Interchannel left/right Balance Control: I agree with Rubinson that said some users would miss having this in the Pre90.

Improved power supply design: Low DA, ESR supply filter and film bypass capacitors and more changes to further improve sonic realism.

In Atkinson's review, read how he describes the way the Parasound JC-2 preamp makes a bunch of his favorite recordings sound incredibly life like in the above review!! What if the new Topping 5.1 preamp could equal the JC-2's performance in every such respect?

Given the Pre90/EXT90's stunning reception by the audiophile community, a Topping 5.1 channel preamp with the above improvements and features that sells for ~ $2K (hardly a lot of money in the North American audiophile market) would win over countless thousands more who complain that superb sounding two channel preamps had to cost > $4K.

Please consider designing and launching this new 5.1 preamp in 2023!

Happily, Topping replied that they will discuss these suggestions with their R & D department.

Multi-channel does not seem to be their thing other than the one USB DAC.

 

[dped90]

Multi-channel does not seem to be their thing other than the one USB DAC.

Well, FWIW, the rep who replied did seem enthused to receive my feedback. And if he/she does bounce my request off their R & D staff maybe a multichannel preamp with at least some of those requested features may happen.

If not, then as mentioned in his review of that Topping preamp, Rubinson said that he previously never had a preamp in his surround system. And since most DACs that don't have actual preamp output stages-instead having volume/mute controls before D/A conversion-most power amps (like Rubinson's) have variable input sensitivity switches or faders. That way with power amps that deliver at least close to their full rated power with ~ 2 volts input (typical DAC output voltage), you won't lose much resolution by using the DAC's digital attenuator/volume control.

I think I explained that correctly.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

If not, then as mentioned in his review of that Topping preamp, Rubinson said that he previously never had a preamp in his surround system.

Not so. I did not have one at the time I bought the Pre90. Earlier, I did have multichannel preamps which I discarded for various reasons.

 

[dped90]

Not so. I did not have one at the time I bought the Pre90. Earlier, I did have multichannel preamps which I discarded for various reasons.

Sorry about that. Yes, re-reading your review it's apparent that you had one or more preamps in times past. I guess what caught my interest was that thanks to the selectable variable input sensitivity of both your Benchmark and NAD amps they can be set high enough to where you barely have to crank down the output of your DAC, and thereby
prevent noise and loss of resolution.

Damn! I wish Topping would have given a bit more thought to the EX90's design. Adding just one more balanced channel would cleanly complete a 5.1 system.
Hopefully, by the time I build a short list and audition speakers Topping would have launched a multichannel preamp as described above.

 

[dtaylo1066]

In most products design there always seems to be a thing or two the manufacturer or designer could have done better. IMHO, there is no excuse for a terrible remote or one that is greatly limited in distance.

 

[dped90]

In most products design there always seems to be a thing or two the manufacturer or designer could have done better. IMHO, there is no excuse for a terrible remote or one that is greatly limited in distance.

Yes, and a 5.1 (or 8.1) preamp would be an excellent opportunity for Topping to not only correct that inferior quality remote issue but to also include upgrades with unique functional and/or audible improvements currently available in no other preamp. Indeed, the only one I could find that came close was this discontinued Sony model; no balanced connections, though. https://www.crutchfield.com/S-3KNZoIXF2MU/p_158TAP9KES/Sony-ES-TA-P9000ES.html And this one has way too much of what I don't need.

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[dtaylo1066]

Sadly, I suggest you not hold your breath waiting for that to happen.

 

[frki16]

Anyone using -30 to -20 dB digital attenuation will greatly benefit with the addition of a nice analog pre-amplifier such as the Topping Pre90. Lot more SINAD to be gained than upgrading to the greatest DAC. Of course having both is the end goal hehe.

can someone explain this? I found out same thing with E30 II (detailed explained on e30 II topic). There was audible difference E30 working in DAC and preamp modes

 

[frki16]

Objection, Your Honor!
I think measuring preamp in full or almost full amplification is not correct.
Half, lower end maybe?
I got this question when figured out and read about sucking preamps in DACs.
When will use preamp at -6dB or so...

 

[misterdog]

In most products design there always seems to be a thing or two the manufacturer or designer could have done better. IMHO, there is no excuse for a terrible remote or one that is greatly limited in distance.

It could also have a solid milled Aluminium chassis and colour OLED screen.

As for the remote being 'terrible' it is far superior to my previous preamp, which had no remote.

There are plenty of preamps available which have a 'better' remote for £ 2/4 K , they might not measure/sound as good but hey the remote is superb.
The choice is yours.

 

[theREALdotnet]

As for the remote being 'terrible' it is far superior to my previous preamp, which had no remote.

But surely you must have owned a few home entertainment remote controls out of the countless ones that popped up during the past half century. How do they compare? Did they have to be aimed accurately, from the correct angle, at an outstretched arm to minimise distance?