Topping Pre90 Review (preamplifier)

[Kal Rubinson]

The only thing I could really measure (because I wanted to match the volume) was the output of the preamp vs the output of the DAC and it seems like I'm losing about 3 dB when the preamp is connected. (XLR in, XLR out) Shouldn't the Pre90 add 4db of gain?

I should add 4db only if you set it to do so. How did you set the output configuration?

 

[WireWoundResistor]

I should add 4db only if you set it to do so. How did you set the output configuration?

I set the output to XLR only and noticed during volume matching that the Pre90 was a lot quieter so I measured both outputs at unity, once directly from the DAC output and once after the Preamp. The Topping was about 3dB down. The SU-9n's output impedance is 207 ohms, works out to about 10 to 1 with the Topping, so I'm kind of stumped as to how this came to be. And the sound difference wasn't subtle at all, which is really strange.

 

[Steven Holt]

Guys, I'm not getting this, please help me to understand. I totally agree that this is an amazing, amazing preamp -- the specs are incredible. But the modern thinking is, unless u have a phonograph where u need to elevate the signal to line level, why have a preamp at all? Isn't the new way to simply run yr DAC straight into your amp (with volume control) and be done with it? As great as this little unit is, it has no phono preamp and has no headphone out (which, you know, would be kinda nice). I'm a newer member, so if my thinking on this is wrong, feel free to correct me. Thanks!

 

[theREALdotnet]

Guys, I'm not getting this, please help me to understand. I totally agree that this is an amazing, amazing preamp -- the specs are incredible. But the modern thinking is, unless u have a phonograph where u need to elevate the signal to line level, why have a preamp at all? Isn't the new way to simply run yr DAC straight into your amp (with volume control) and be done with it? As great as this little unit is, it has no phono preamp and has no headphone out (which, you know, would be kinda nice). I'm a newer member, so if my thinking on this is wrong, feel free to correct me. Thanks!

You’re not wrong. I’m impressed by this pre-amp’s specs, too, but I simply can’t find a good enough excuse to get one. I don’t have multiple sources to switch between, and my volume control range (currently taken care of by the DAC) is about -5dB to -15dB. Even if I used the pre90 just as a fancy volume control, it wouldn’t improve on what I’ve got.

That doesn’t mean someone else couldn’t put the pre90 to good use, of course. Your observation about the missing phono stage (and what else does actually require pre-amplification these days?) is on point, though.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I set the output to XLR only and noticed during volume matching that the Pre90 was a lot quieter so I measured both outputs at unity, once directly from the DAC output and once after the Preamp. The Topping was about 3dB down.

Then something is wrong. With my Pre90s set for XLR only and 0dB gain, the level is identical to the input and, therefore, the bypass level.

 

[Steven Holt]

You’re not wrong. I’m impressed by this pre-amp’s specs, too, but I simply can’t find a good enough excuse to get one. I don’t have multiple sources to switch between, and my volume control range (currently taken care of by the DAC) is about -5dB to -15dB. Even if I used the pre90 just as a fancy volume control, it wouldn’t improve on what I’ve got.

That doesn’t mean someone else couldn’t put the pre90 to good use, of course. Your observation about the missing phono stage (and what else does actually require pre-amplification these days?) is on point, though.

I have the Topping D30 DAC and the PA3s amp. Great units. I'm looking forward to the day Topping makes an integrated amp.

 

[theREALdotnet]

Topping is starting to make gear that has little practical use 'because we can'.

We have to be careful with the generalisations, I’m sure there are people with multiple sources or with DACs that don’t have volume control. To them, the pre90 would be useful.

For others, like you and me, it would do nothing while being audibly transparent. Kind of like an M Scaler

 

[Steven Holt]

We have to be careful with the generalisations, I’m sure there are people with multiple sources or with DACs that don’t have volume control. To them, the pre90 would be useful.

For others, like you and me, it would do nothing while being audibly transparent. Kind of like an M Scaler

You're right. I'm afraid that I went a little bit off the deep end.

 

[maudio]

I got the lucky match!

Pre90 is between the EC Designs NOS DAC without any output/gain stage, just the chips that convert the input and send the signal out in the universe. There awaits Pre90 which sends it into a brand new behemoth FirstWat F7 which finally amplifies it with its first twenty watts.
I tried HiRez Somethin Else and Tanto Tempo and Bebel Gilberto just sings! Both Pre90 and F7 are Chi-Fi. Chi sounds good, like Qi. Electro sounds a bit slower than my previous Class T Amp with SPS, but this is the F7 class A feature with its linear PSU.

 

[Snico]

Hello, I just bought one of those and want (need) to put a IR extender on it. Does someone know where is the IR receiver located exactly ? Like the remote, I can't see it ..

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Hello, I just bought one of those and want (need) to put a IR extender on it. Does someone know where is the IR receiver located exactly ? Like the remote, I can't see it ..

At the right side of the display window, midway between top and bottom, as shown in the manual.

 

[restorer-john]

Hello, I just bought one of those and want (need) to put a IR extender on it. Does someone know where is the IR receiver located exactly ? Like the remote, I can't see it ..

Shine a bright torch at the window and you will see the IR receiver behind the perspex.

 

[telemike]

Can you use RCA - > XLR adapters for inputs like CD players. phono preamps, etc?

 

[maudio]

Can you use RCA - > XLR adapters for inputs like CD players. phono preamps, etc?

You can, but why would you want to do that?

There is perfect RCA-Input with additional advantage of having much higher input impedance than XLR-input.

 

[telemike]

You can, but why would you want to do that?

There is perfect RCA-Input with additional advantage of having much higher input impedance than XLR-input.

I have more rca outputs

 

[maudio]

I have more rca outputs

For that there is Input extender Ext90 which gives 1 more RCA input.

 

[nothingman]

Guys, I'm not getting this, please help me to understand. I totally agree that this is an amazing, amazing preamp -- the specs are incredible. But the modern thinking is, unless u have a phonograph where u need to elevate the signal to line level, why have a preamp at all? Isn't the new way to simply run yr DAC straight into your amp (with volume control) and be done with it? As great as this little unit is, it has no phono preamp and has no headphone out (which, you know, would be kinda nice). I'm a newer member, so if my thinking on this is wrong, feel free to correct me. Thanks!

Two reasons come to mind. The most common one is that DAC-controlled volume can limit the dynamic range as the volume drops (ESS used to host a powerpoint presentation on this, but the link is broken now). The basic premise is the signal itself goes down in amplitude but the noise floor coming out of the DAC is fixed. That’s versus an analog preamp where the noise floor drops at the same time with the signal. Relatedly, the best SINAD from a DAC is usually at full output. So if you were really anal retentive about things, you’d run, say, a D90SE fixed at full 0db volume output, taking advantage of everything it has to give, then use the Pre90 as your analog volume control into a power amp. But plenty of people are perfectly happy running quality DACs straight into the power amp.

Another more niche reason would be systems with digital room correction. Just throwing numbers out there, if your DSP (whether manual PEQ or Dirac filter, etc) is set to boost some frequencies by 10db, then you’ll need to run your DAC at -10db to provide the headroom for the boost so that the output doesn’t clip. But realistically that means sending an overall lower strength signal out of the DAC since the vast majority of frequencies are not being boosted by 10db in the DSP. In that case, run your DAC at -10db for the headroom then cleanly add the gain back in with the Pre90. This is basically my case, but even then I don’t find I need the extra gain back with the combination of my power amp gain, speaker sensitivity, and SPL requirements.

 

[Snico]

I can confirm that the addition of a good analogic preamp like the Pre90, allowing the dac to play at his optimal level, can make a huge difference in certain situations. It surely was the case in mine. A lot of dynamic was lost at low and mid levels, now i'm a happy listener.

Of course there are dacs that will not need it and there are systems where the difference will barely be noticeable.

 

[jome]

I have a very odd problem with my Pre90 and class-a mono blocks.
If I connect DAC-> XLR-> Pre90(in:XLR out:XLR) ->XLR ->AMP I can raise volume but if I lower volume below about -28dB the dial change but speaker output stay the same all the way down to -99.5 dB. At MUTE it goes silent.

If I connect DAC-> XLR-Pre90(in:XLR out:RCA) -> RCA-> AMP Volume works as expected.

A very odd thing I tried is connecting as first scenario XLR all the way but ALSO adding RCA between DAC and Pre90, that is both XLR&RCA.
Pre90 still configured In: XLR Out:XLR and now Volume work as expected.

Any ideas?

 

[DIEGO]

Hi, I currently own an AUDIOPHONICS LPA-S400ET Class D Stereo Amplifier Purifi 2x400W 4 Ohm power amplifier. I connected this in XLR to a Topping d70 DAC using the built-in preamp of this. What I noticed is that not a lot of power is being delivered to the speakers (I have two 100W speakers at 4 ohms and I can keep the volume knob at maximum despite the declared 400W of the amps) despite the gain controls being set correctly. I would like to know if using this pre 90 of the topping I would be able to have more gain to be able to drive even more powerful speakers than those I currently have.