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Topping PA7 Plus Amplifier Review

Rate this stereo amplifier:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 15 4.0%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 37 9.9%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 149 39.9%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 172 46.1%

  • Total voters
    373

pseudoid

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Someone should do a DIY case for it! :)
I am going to sleep folks. No fighting while I am dreaming....
I am guessing that 52V/6.5A power brick has got to be a switching power supply.
It would have been telling to have done a quick test to determine:
1. How much DC isolation (filtering) is provided by the PA7 design, and
2. How much audio-band noise is on the adapter's 52Vdc output.
A similarly spec'd power supply (~400W) may, probably, be sourced from aliexpress for reasonable pricing.

Why are there 3-pins to the "DC-IN" connector? Does the adapter provide 2 isolated DCs for L and R?
 

ernestcarl

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Why not have a look at icePower 1200as2 based one?
After all the company's description is this:

View attachment 281225


I would e-mail them.

Thanks. The price of those amps are already higher than what I'm willing to pay for, though. And I don't want to risk over-driving this speaker anyway... the 112dB continuous use case I mentioned is really mostly about just experimental testing for "shits-and-giggles". No way would I be playing that loud realistically, to be honest.
 

pseudoid

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While the average ASR member might be likely to swap preamps mulitple times over the life of their power amp...
Above statement goes against what is being said below:
Note: amplifiers are some of the least reliable audio gear due to high currents and voltages involved.
My experiences with power amps have been absolutely trouble-free, harking back to the days of a MC275.
Since the PA7's DC adapter is NOT part of its audio amp enclosure, hopefully resulting in long life.
 

anotherhobby

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My experiences with power amps have been absolutely trouble-free, harking back to the days of a MC275.
I just counted and I've owned 13 different home stereo amplifiers over the last 30 years. They have also ALL been trouble-free.
Maybe we're just lucky? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

PeteL

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I just counted and I've owned 13 different home stereo amplifiers over the last 30 years. They have also ALL been trouble-free.
Maybe we're just lucky? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The devil advocate in me would note that if your play time have been shared with that many amps It would be normal that you don't run into trouble. But jokes aside, yes a well designed power amp should last a long time without breaking in my experience too. That said, I did have a Hypex NC500 module die on me once, so yes as was saying confucius, Chi Tapen.
 

anotherhobby

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Has it come time for you to become superstitious? :rolleyes:
Ha! Most definitely not. :)
The devil advocate in me would note that if your play time have been shared with that many amps It would be normal that you don't run into trouble. But jokes aside, yes a well designed power amp should last a long time without breaking in my experience too. That said, I did have a Hypex NC500 module die on me once, so yes as was saying confucius, Chi Tapen.
No devils advocate necessary since I took no position on anything and drew no conclusions. :)
 

EJ3

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but very far difference from the spec.
Ahm, it meets the 2 volt spec. It does nicely with the:
Apt Power Amplifier 1
Apt Power Amplifier 1
(1979-1987)

8 ohm setting:

1V in = 117.9 W out

1.03V in = 125W out at 0.1% THD (still green)

1.04V in = 127W out at 0.41% THD (still green)

1.045V in = 128W out at 0.6% THD (just turning red)

1.27V 10mS peak = 54.5V peak = 38.54V RMS = 186W RMS burst power

And with the:

NAD 2200 Power Amplifier​

Date of manufacture : Jan 87 - Feb 89

POWER AMP SECTION​

Continuous output power into 8Ω * 100W (20dBW)
Rated distortion (THD 20Hz - 20kHz) 0.03%
Clipping power 140W
(maximum continuous power per channel)
IHF Dynamic headroom at 8Ω +6dB
IHF dynamic power 400W (26dBW)
4Ω 600W (28dBW)
Here is actual results:
(Hey, that doesn't meet specs either, but is it adequate)? And I can drive anything with much less sensitivity. So what if it exceeds specs? That just opens up more options...
It is power measurements where the magic of this amplifier comes to life so let's look at that with 4 ohm load first:

 
Last edited by a moderator:

linuxfan

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I might just go for one of the Buckeye amps instead.
Sure, I suppose the 500W model would do the job - $750 -
https://www.buckeyeamp.com/shop/p/hypex-ncx500-amplifier-monoblock

Why not have a look at icePower 1200as2 based one?
Well ICEpower is certainly another option, but the highest-power models are pricey, and the 500W models are no cheaper than the 500W Buckeye Hypex amplifier ...

... but if you really want to save money - with a little DIY you could assemble a 500W ICEpower amplifier for $320 for the amp board and $125 for a built-to-suit case -
https://www.parts-express.com/ICEpo...wer-Supply-Module-1-x-500W-326-204?quantity=1
https://www.ghentaudio.com/products/b265b-m1xr?VariantsId=10804
 

Sokel

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Well ICEpower is certainly another option, but the highest-power models are pricey, and the 500W models are no cheaper than the 500W Buckeye Hypex amplifier ...

... but if you really want to save money - with a little DIY you could assemble a 500W ICEpower amplifier for $320 for the amp board and $125 for a built-to-suit case -
https://www.parts-express.com/ICEpo...wer-Supply-Module-1-x-500W-326-204?quantity=1
https://www.ghentaudio.com/products/b265b-m1xr?VariantsId=10804
That's the older model not the Edge version and when it comes to diy you can do the same with an1200as2 module for a little more and most importantly you can later add another two channels for something like 150$ for a 300a2.
 

linuxfan

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Sure, the 1200AS2 is also good value when DIY'd. But it's still noticeably more expensive (and a suitable Ghent case costs $40 more). I was sticking to ernestcarl's declared parameters - monoblock, to drive a single Fulcrum RX699 public address speaker to its near-maximum power capability.
 

JktHifi

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Ahm, it meets the 2 volt spec. It does nicely with the:
Apt Power Amplifier 1
Apt Power Amplifier 1
(1979-1987)

8 ohm setting:

1V in = 117.9 W out

1.03V in = 125W out at 0.1% THD (still green)

1.04V in = 127W out at 0.41% THD (still green)

1.045V in = 128W out at 0.6% THD (just turning red)

1.27V 10mS peak = 54.5V peak = 38.54V RMS = 186W RMS burst power

And with the:

NAD 2200 Power Amplifier​

Date of manufacture : Jan 87 - Feb 89

POWER AMP SECTION​

Continuous output power into 8Ω * 100W (20dBW)
Rated distortion (THD 20Hz - 20kHz) 0.03%
Clipping power 140W
(maximum continuous power per channel)
IHF Dynamic headroom at 8Ω +6dB
IHF dynamic power 400W (26dBW)
4Ω 600W (28dBW)
Here is actual results:
(Hey, that doesn't meet specs either, but is it adequate)? And I can drive anything with much less sensitivity. So what if it exceeds specs? That just opens up more options...
It is power measurements where the magic of this amplifier comes to life so let's look at that with 4 ohm load first:

NAD 2200 stereo power amplifier power into 4 ohm audio measurements.png



We can see a kink in distortion when we hit 200 watts as the unit sails past that to produce whopping 337 watts per channel, both driven! Per design characteristics, you can have much more during momentary peaks:

NAD 2200 stereo power amplifier power into 4 ohm Peak and Max audio measurements.png


Wow, we have one kilowatt of power coming out of this amp in short duration!

Switching to 8 ohm we see similar results as 4 ohm:

NAD 2200 stereo power amplifier power into 8 ohm audio measurements.png



Sweeping the power test at 4 ohm with different frequencies shows a well-behaved amplifier:

NAD 2200 stereo power amplifier THD+N vs Power vs Frequency audio measurements.png

You do loose power in higher frequencies but that is fine since music spectrum has lower energy there anyway.

Due to the long duration of this test, the protection circuit likely backed off the high voltage rail, producing lower output levels.

EDIT: adding Lab Input Measurements
Lab Input Measurements
I was surprised that the frequency response was not flat but was relieved to see later in the thread that this is due to insertion of low and high pass filters. So here is the frequency response with Lab input that doesn't have such a filter:

NAD 2200 stereo power amplifier frequency response audio measurements.png


Response now (in green) as it should be, ruler flat to below 10 Hz, and well extending past the 40 kHz limit of this measurement.

I figured the filters may be adding some noise/distortion so re-ran the dashboard again:
NAD 2200 stereo power amplifier Lab Input audio measurements.png



Distortion doesn't change but if you look at the noise floor at 20 Hz, it is down by some 10 dB. That improves SINAD a couple of dBs, making the amplifier stand out even more!
Best vintage stereo amplifier review measurements.png



Zoomed:

1591750335920.png



And signal to noise ratio:

NAD 2200 stereo power amplifier SNR Lab input audio measurements.png



Conclusions
Nice to see innovation like this from equipment that is over 30 years old! Shame on manufacturers that produce amplifiers for much less power, more distortion and higher prices these days. No, you don't get a fancy case here and sheet metal is strictly budget category. But you are not going to sit on the amp. The guts are where it matters and NAD 2200 delivers.

NOTE: the output relay on stock 2200 gets corroded and fails over time. There are videos and DIY threads on how to upgrade the relay there to fix the problem. The unit tested here has that fix. Other than that, there are not reports of many other reliability issues even though NAD products are often said to be less reliable than other brands.

Overall, I am happy to recommend the NAD 2200. I almost gave it the highest honors but given the upgraded nature of the test unit, and the fact that used amps may have issues, I avoided that. But you could have easily pushed me to give it the golfing panther.

I think that you may have jealousy issues and just have to say something negative to make yourself feel good.
Old product but still can compete. Nice
 

laudio

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I agree with all your points. TPA3XYZ based designs are a poor choice no matter how good they can be made to measure with a resistor. Explained elsewhere.

Not sure I would agree they are poor design choice at all price points, they offer great value at the lower end.
 

charlielaub

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I agree with all your points. TPA3XYZ based designs are a poor choice no matter how good they can be made to measure with a resistor. Explained elsewhere.
Waaaa, waaa, waaaaa. Look the TPA32xx series is not perfect, but it certainly depends on why you need any why. For example, I build multichannel active loudspeakers. Below 1kHz a well designed TPA3255 is fantastic and is a route to 2 or more channels of up to about 250W@4R per channel at low cost, in a small footprint, and with low heat generation. Class-AB is not as well suited for this role. Above 1kHz a very good class-AB amp is a better option if you nit pick and choose some unrealistic test conditions, like you have previously posted about in this forum PMA. But such an amp will be larger and generate more heat. Instead I could use a Hypex amp - even their older UcD designs are quite good.

So, keep it all in perspective folks. The TPA32xx series is what it is, it's both very good and not so bad. :)
 

digicidal

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Above statement goes against what is being said below:

My experiences with power amps have been absolutely trouble-free, harking back to the days of a MC275.
Since the PA7's DC adapter is NOT part of its audio amp enclosure, hopefully resulting in long life.
I must be similarly lucky in that regard. If it weren't for other reasons (i.e. features/connections/codecs) I could still be using the first Pioneer receiver I ever owned. Although I've had a couple Emotiva sub's plate amps fail... that's be it for me. I've never had a dedicated power amp fail yet... even my 10 year old Emotiva's and a small-shop tube amp still work great.

Honestly, at this point I'm just buying new amps because I can afford to and I'd much rather replace ~230 pounds worth of "rack heaters" with 35 pounds worth of class D efficiency. My back feels this is 100% worth it, and my ears can't tell the difference. :)
 

EJ3

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I must be similarly lucky in that regard. If it weren't for other reasons (i.e. features/connections/codecs) I could still be using the first Pioneer receiver I ever owned. Although I've had a couple Emotiva sub's plate amps fail... that's be it for me. I've never had a dedicated power amp fail yet... even my 10 year old Emotiva's and a small-shop tube amp still work great.

Honestly, at this point I'm just buying new amps because I can afford to and I'd much rather replace ~230 pounds worth of "rack heaters" with 35 pounds worth of class D efficiency. My back feels this is 100% worth it, and my ears can't tell the difference. :)
The only dedicated amp that I ever had that failed did not fail because of something to do with it, it failed due to a massive power surge that actually lit up the inside of the house as if lightning had struck inside the living room. It cast shadows when it happened. And the house smelt of burning wiring. The only thing wrong with the amp was a 45 amp relay that no longer relayed. Replaced it and everything was fine.
 

Namesbuck

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I have been waiting for something like the PA7 to come out. I have a turntable and an RPI4 as my two sources. This products allows me to move to XLR for my digital audio but keep RCA for my turntable. I can switch inputs and control gain for my turntable from the power amp instead of relying on controlling two separate gain stages with my current setup (Schiit SYS and Emotiva A-100).

I would of course need to buy the matching E70 DAC which adds to the cost and I doubt would provide any perceived fidelity from my current Topping E-30.

I do like to keep my turntable grounded by running wire from it to my phono pre and then to my power amp. I am not sure if there is a single screw on the chassis of the PA7 to ground to?

I guess the main impetus for the change would be to reduce hiss when running my turntable through my current setup. Digital audio however is already plenty clean for me as-is.
 

ampguy

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I have been waiting for something like the PA7 to come out. I have a turntable and an RPI4 as my two sources. This products allows me to move to XLR for my digital audio but keep RCA for my turntable. I can switch inputs and control gain for my turntable from the power amp instead of relying on controlling two separate gain stages with my current setup (Schiit SYS and Emotiva A-100).

I would of course need to buy the matching E70 DAC which adds to the cost and I doubt would provide any perceived fidelity from my current Topping E-30.

I do like to keep my turntable grounded by running wire from it to my phono pre and then to my power amp. I am not sure if there is a single screw on the chassis of the PA7 to ground to?

I guess the main impetus for the change would be to reduce hiss when running my turntable through my current setup. Digital audio however is already plenty clean for me as-is.
Why would you have replace preamp? Looks? I also have been lucky with power amps, I gave away a perfectly working 90s Mitsubishi 100 wpc power amp as I couldn’t give it away a few weeks ago, have had a lot of 60s citation is, dynamo, McIntosh mc240, eico, etc., these would be considered overbuilt today, and the newer products made, probably aren’t designed to last more than 5 years maybe, esp if protocols like Bluetooth or other frequent changing standards are implemented.
 

ampguy

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I'd like to get a PA7, or PA7 Plus, but the measurements and marketing are confusing to me. I get that the new chipset doesn't quite meet the old PA5 measurements, although both have more power, and design should fix reliability, but why give power #'s at 10% THD? And why is the PA7 a better value than the Plus? I just can't imagine anyone who could hear the difference between a PA7 or PA7 Plus? Am I missing something here?
 
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