Topping PA5 Review (Amplifier)

[Pulkass]

I have 50 sq metres treated room. 600 watts per side. 3 amps. 3 way. Electronic X over. Hi Def.

 

[sarumbear]

Don't shoot me here, but isn't it about distortions coming down into the audible frequency range? There's often non musical 'stuff' at 20 - 30kHz (I remember it being a side effect of SA-CD when that was an 'interesting' format). I'd also respectfully suggest it may help ascertain the stability and competence of the design, but don't hold me to it Whatever, amps with bad IMD figures (19 and 20kHz) back in the 80's definitely seemed to have a sonic 'character,' liked or not...

I wouldn't be "shooting" you if you had not said the following with certainty instead of your version above

Sure, let's see a 18+19 kHz IMD and we will know.

 

[cheapsoundguy]

Just got my PA5 yesterday. Hooked it up this morning. So far listened to "Hotel California," Pavarotti "Rigoletto," "Someone Like You," and Dean Martin Christmas album.

Paired with SMSL M400 DAC via balanced XLR driving new B&W 702 S2 2.0 speakers. Previously was using Outlaw M2200 monoblocks. I was annoyed by the hiss I could hear from the monoblocks -- even when the SMSL vol was set to zero.

With the PA5, there is zero hiss. Overall, I can hear few other sonic differences. Their is perhaps *slightly* more detail overall.

Volume is not a problem at all. I can easily fill my 35x20 ft room with these speakers and the PA5. (Speakers are 90db sensitivity I believe).

Overall, I think it's an incredible amp, especially for the price. Crazy small as well. Roko remote for scale.

 

[BoredErica]

Sure, let's see a 18+19 kHz IMD and we will know. Especially at about -40 dB where actual music content is. Until then it is speculation.

Nonlienearity at frequencies up to 20 kHz create difference intermodulation tones in audio band that are situated at subtraction of two frequencies or more complex in case of more frequencies. You cannot oversimplify the way you did. This amp’s high frequency linearity is poor. It is not true that distortion measurements have to be made only with 20 kHz BW. Lot of poor understanding may be seen in these non professional discussions.

Did pma ever follow up to this?


I'm going through pages 130-134 in this thread and we're going from 'this amp is very potentially trash' to 'wow upgrading to this amp from an even worse amp is a waste of time and money unless you need features/power/looks'. Lots of controversy, people don't agree if this amp has met transparency quite a while back or if it's a giant question mark. Not often do I see such differences of opinion on whether something is transparent or not here (well if we take out the people who don't believe in measurements).

 

[Paco De Lucia]

Did pma ever follow up to this?


I'm going through pages 130-134 in this thread and we're going from 'this amp is very potentially trash' to 'wow upgrading to this amp from an even worse amp is a waste of time and money unless you need features/power/looks'. Lots of controversy, people don't agree if this amp has met transparency quite a while back or if it's a giant question mark. Not often do I see such differences of opinion on whether something is transparent or not here (well if we take out the people who don't believe in measurements).

I think the broad consensus of the people who have actually taken delivery of one is of satisfaction apart from a loose speaker terminal and one chap who can't get the gain required for his speakers. I'm happy with mine after a week of listening.

 

[asoka]

True

From my point of view coming from my smsl da9 and my wharfedale linton with upgraded crossovers ...I have no noise problem with da9 and really I don't want a more revealing one on the top end...da9 coupled with my adi2 dac it is more than enough really more Also on da9 if I want I could alter the sound by the mean of included dsp...also this is valid for the adi2dac.
If I want to change de amplifier I want one that will be faster than da9 with much improved dynamics and less analytic with more relaxed bass and low mids well represented.

 

[Paco De Lucia]

True

From my point of view coming from my smsl da9 and my wharfedale linton with upgraded crossovers ...I have no noise problem with da9 and really I don't want a more revealing one on the top end...da9 coupled with my adi2 dac it is more than enough really more Also on da9 if I want I could alter the sound by the mean of included dsp...also this is valid for the adi2dac.
If I want to change de amplifier I want one that will be faster than da9 with much improved dynamics and less analytic with more relaxed bass and low mids well represented.

You possibly may have shot yourself in the foot by modding the lintons

 

[asoka]

You possibly may have shot yourself in the foot by modding the lintons

So So The difference it is as between an muffled wooden barrel and some hires speaker...also tell night and day I enjoy the mod but with the downside of being so revealing you just need to steer away from bad recordings...now they are not old winil songs heaven because will not hide anything some test just recorded but it is not ok because was recorded with just an samsung note 8...the clarity is down 5 steps the bass exagerated and the room eco also bad. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/psjvcpk0s5mzuu3/AAAQna1XmfKE9ZK5UGovB6mba?dl=0

 

[cheapsoundguy]

I've spent another hour listening to the system with the PA5. I would say compared to the Outlaw M2200 it is even more revealing and treble forward. For my setup, I consider it a bit of a side-grade compared to the M2200. With my B&W speakers, I really didn't need/want more treble. I do like how the background is dead black however. With more neutral speakers, the amp would be exceptional I think.

 

[Eggs Ackley]

I've had mine for 11 days now, enough time to make a judgement. With my old Klipsch Fortes it sounds wonderful. The Fortes are completely stock and original from 1985 and over the past 37 years I have had and used perhaps a dozen different amps and receivers....class a tubes, class a/b and d solid state stuff, you name it. The Fortes have never sounded so good. The bass and treble range and level of detail has improved, it is as if they have finally reached their full potential with this amp. I'm using an E50 DAC in preamp mode with the PA5 wide open and it is dead quiet at idle. I know none of what I'm saying is scientific but those are my impressions none the less.

 

[DWPress]

I picked up one of these as well for a second house system. I haven't listened to it yet, was musing about using it for tweeters in my active XO and since my system is all torn apart anyway (Okto fried in a power surge) so I started hooking it up. I didn't get very far - the speaker binding posts spun around and couldn't connect speaker wire for worries of how it was attached on the backside.

I opened it up and the nuts holding the binding posts weren't even finger tight. Fixed it with a wrench but new owners might want to check this out before using. Remove 4 screws, pry off the volume pot and retaining nut on the shaft and it's an easy fix if you've got the right size open ended metric wrench.

 

[Prana Ferox]

Did pma ever follow up to this?


I'm going through pages 130-134 in this thread and we're going from 'this amp is very potentially trash' to 'wow upgrading to this amp from an even worse amp is a waste of time and money unless you need features/power/looks'. Lots of controversy, people don't agree if this amp has met transparency quite a while back or if it's a giant question mark. Not often do I see such differences of opinion on whether something is transparent or not here (well if we take out the people who don't believe in measurements).

I think there's less genuine concern than you may be thinking.

The upgrade question was whether it was worth the money to upgrade from another modern amp with similar power and already essentially inaudible noise/distortion (and a different feature set.) That becomes a question of diminishing returns, and there are probably other parts of the signal chain that would have more impact - or just spend the money on more music to enjoy.

 

[Eggs Ackley]

or just spend the money on more music to enjoy.

Maybe some of the best advice I've ever seen on any Hi-Fi forum.

 

[Papaya_X]

I picked up one of these as well for a second house system. I haven't listened to it yet, was musing about using it for tweeters in my active XO and since my system is all torn apart anyway (Okto fried in a power surge) so I started hooking it up. I didn't get very far - the speaker binding posts spun around and couldn't connect speaker wire for worries of how it was attached on the backside.

I opened it up and the nuts holding the binding posts weren't even finger tight. Fixed it with a wrench but new owners might want to check this out before using. Remove 4 screws, pry off the volume pot and retaining nut on the shaft and it's an easy fix if you've got the right size open ended metric wrench.

How did you find the PCB build quality and solders ?

 

[bravomail]

I have a question for experts about incoming voltage and volume from E50 to PA5 over balanced. I tried googling but could not come to a definitive conclusion. Pls feel free to challenge/update any points.
1. E50 supplies peak 2Vrms over single ended (RCA) and 4Vrms via balanced -according to specs I just read.
2. PA5 can accept max 2.6Vrms (input sensitivity) on its balanced-only inputs - without clipping - according to specs I just read.
3. What will be my max allowed volume level (displayed in -dB) in E50 to avoid clipping, aka to supply 2.6 Vrms ?
4. Will it be (4-2.6)/4 to percent to dB? 35% will be -9dB? or -2dB?

I looked here https://lasercalculator.com/db-percent-converter/
and here http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-thd.htm

Per this

Percent volume increase to decibels

If I want to raise the volume of a track by 10%, how do I figure out how many decibels to raise it by? Does that change based on the original volume of the track?

sound.stackexchange.com

I got -3.74 = 20*LOG10(0.65)

 

[antcollinet]

I got -3.74 = 20*LOG10(0.65)

That is spot on - assuming the dB reading on the DAC is accurate. Bear in mind also 2.6Vrms assumes a sine wave, with a sqrt(2) relationship between rms and peak. (Peak voltages are what hit clipping). If you were to measure real music, then it will be clipping at a different RMS voltage.

However unless you're in a big room a long way from inefficient speakers, then just keep the volume below "ears bleeding" level and you will be fine.

 

[DWPress]

How did you find the PCB build quality and solders ?

Everything else seemed nice and tight - any other bolted bits + the quality of the connections.

Just a little QC issue, I'm sure my unit is not indicative of the rest shipped, just wanted to let folks know to check before using.

 

[bravomail]

That is spot on - assuming the dB reading on the DAC is accurate. Bear in mind also 2.6Vrms assumes a sine wave, with a sqrt(2) relationship between rms and peak. (Peak voltages are what hit clipping). If you were to measure real music, then it will be clipping at a different RMS voltage.

However unless you're in a big room a long way from inefficient speakers, then just keep the volume below "ears bleeding" level and you will be fine.

With these findings u never want to run E50 to PA5 in DAC mode then. Only in Pre mode with -4 to -10dB setting.
The same does not apply to my E50 to L30 connection, as L30 can accept more than 2Vrms over RCA. The question is - should I feed it with TRS-balanced-to-RCA cables? And would be the Pre volume setting in that scenario on E50? Will extra 2Vrms be lost to RCA conversion?

Found here https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-l30-headphone-amplifier-review.15226/page-50
Apparently u can feed 25Vrms to L30 in low gain! omg

 

[pma]

I opened it up and the nuts holding the binding posts weren't even finger tight

They should have been glued from the factory. Even the very cheap AIYIMA do so. Topping has a lot to learn regarding quality, this is unacceptable with the $350 little box.

 

[MarkWinston]

Ive been using the PA5 for a week and Im comparing it exclusively to my DA9 and the way more expensive Rotel RC1572 MKII pre and RB1552 MKII power combo which is known to be very revealing throughout the entire spectrum. Speakers used were the Diamond 12.2, R200 and the OG LS50. Dacs used are the SMSL SU9, SU9N and Sanskrit 10th MKII. Build quality is fine, Ive got no issues with it but its really not good looking to me. I like how the DA9 looks better, especially with that sexy lcd screen.

First I tried it with LS50 and right away I noticed it has more control over it compared to the DA9, especially in the bass department. The LS50s will start sounding beefy with the right amount of power (and amp for that matter), with the PA5 it sounded like the 130 watts Rotel, which is surprising as hell. Make no mistakes, the DA9 can power the LS50s but it just doesnt have that kind of body the LS50 produces with more powerful amps. They do suck the living daylights out of amps, especially for their size. So there, bass wise, its as good as my Rotels, which is way more expensive and powerful.

Mids, especially with vocals and guitar plucks were sharp and defined, and it had body and meat in em. The DA9 in comparison sounded leaner but still not as defined which is a shocker to me. Again, in this regard, it sounded more like the Rotel than the DA9. All this coming from a small box like that. This shit is neck and neck with the Rotel till this point although the Rotel sounds a wee bit meatier.

Now we get to the upper registers and this is where I was floored. The DA9 is no slouch when it comes to the higher frequencies but the PA5 made it sound like the DA9 was veiled all these while. Even the Rotels, which I consider revealing af, didnt have the sparkle like PA5. I was hearing nuances in the upper frequencies I wasnt hearing before. The saliva of Etta Cameron in Motherless Child was clearer than ever, the birds chirping in What A Wonderful World by Kat Edmonson sounded so life like and holographic I was looking around for actual birds! I kid you not, this amp is no joke.

Soundstage and instrument separation was also fantastic, better than the DA9 but not as wide as the Rotels. Its higher and deeper though, it can throw bell tolls, bird chirps, clock ticks and door squeaks deeper and higher than what the Rotels can. Clean is the word, VERY CLEAN.

For 350, I would buy this amp again, over and over again. The DA9 nearly made me sell my Rotels if not because of the power hungry LS50s, now its a done deal with the PA5. John, come up with a PA9 already!!!