Topping PA5 Review (Amplifier)

[DanielT]

I mean one needs to run the say 80Hz at some 6, 12, 18, 24 etc slope for the low pass filter (LPF), and then a similar scheme for the high pass.
Otherwise you have the woofer voltage peaks that the MR/Tweeter are riding on, and you gain nothing.


So is 2x topping and a MiniDSP more than just a pair of Hypex?
And then you also need the funny cables. So 350 + 350 + MiniDSP, + “funny cables” + speaker cables.

Whereas 2x FA122 is twin 125W so about 950 USD.

Hypex FusionAmp FA122

Hypex FusionAmp FA122

www.madisoundspeakerstore.com

So I think in our scenario it is a pretty cogent argument to have the FA122 mounted on the back of the bookshelves, rather than using a pair of the Topping PA5.
No speaker cables, and the same cost of less cost going with the Hypex with built in DSP.

If talk about a three way then the FA123, FA253 or FA503 gives 3 NCores with one being a smaller tweeter power (100W)… Then it is no contest that the Hypex wins over the PA5 in cost.

At least, in my real case, most of the reason for the post is to see if the Hypex makes sense in the scenario I mentioned.
(It is certainly not an attack.)



I sort of believe you, but without some screen shot of a voltage trace It is hard to be 100% sure.

I would probably roll those books shelf speakers off a 12 db/oct at 60-80Hz, or 100 Hz at 6 dB... Because any low notes, that the speakers cannot really play, is where the huge voltage swings drive the output to the rails.

Fun to think of different solutions. Hypex, it definitely makes sense. What you say is undeniably interesting.. Thanks for the tips on crossover frequency for books shelf speakers.

It is, in Sweden in any case, recognized demanding speakers. Qln One. Maybe hard to believe when you see them. But sealed, completely crazy with stopping / moff. I put one of them (see attached picture, the white speaker Qln) on a one JPW P1. Big difference between the JPW-Qln speakers in terms of sensitivity and driving them. To Qln advantage, speaker boxes with very little resonances. Qln absolutely needs a sub. I'm working on a couple of simpler DIY subwoffers now. I wIll connect them with Qln at the beginning of next year.

You were quite right those where the QLn would really feel good to be unloaded below 80-100 Hz. The amplifier that run the Qln would "breathe" easier then. By the way, this does not only apply to me and my speakers. It can be something to think about for anyone who has tripod speakers/books shelf speakers.Combination them and active sub and sensible integration with LP-HP filters.

Edit:
I can add that I am currently playing older uncompressed, not loudnessed CDs. It undeniably places its demands on speakers and amplifiers.

 

[pma]

It is, in Sweden in any case, recognized demanding speakers. Qln One. Maybe hard to believe when you see them. But sealed,

It happens, sometimes. 20 years ago I had the speaker shown below. 2 way, closed box, with incredibly low sensitivity of some 82 - 83 dB/2.83V/m. It needed at least 2 x 100W amplifier even in a 20m2 room. And more for classical music.

 

[DSJR]

Slightly off topic, but what speakers did you pair it with? And how would you describe the sound signature? Did you feel it lacked bass or the treble was too bright?
Thanks.

I used Harbeth 30.2-XD's which are quite neutral on axis these days I feel (nothing remotely like the originals tested here once, nor the LS5/9 ancestors). I played them at admittedly moderate levels while I did some turntable work (what I was there for in Covid times) and subjectively, it sounded just like all Rega amps from memory, slightly 'lively' but 'engaging' and nothing obviously 'wrong' with it. The thing is, if you hear one Rega amp, I feel you've heard them all apart from power output (I believe the basic design permeates all the models) and phono stage refinements and so on and subjectively, they're definitely a 'family.'

The mauling it received here caused great sadness this end and a final realisation that my ears aren't good if ever they were and that standards have seriously moved on even at this price level (the rather compromised internal layout is pretty inexcusable today and all for a narrow deep 'footprint' - sorry Rega). I can't ever see them going the PA5-style route any time soon, but maybe research into smps or similar these days wouldn't hurt for starters if it's done right...

 

[DanielT]

It happens, sometimes. 20 years ago I had the speaker shown below. 2 way, closed box, with incredibly low sensitivity of some 82 - 83 dB/2.83V/m. It needed at least 2 x 100W amplifier even in a 20m2 room. And more for classical music.

View attachment 173604

Sorry regarding my OT, just one more comment then I promise not to write more about my stuff.

Check this out. They Qln together with my Fostex 600. It is serviced and recaped. A little more than normal listening volume.

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/fostex/600.shtml

According to Qln:
Sensitivity: 86 dB, dB/2.83V/m.
Ohm 4
Bullshit. There must be lower sensitivity . Though it may be due to the music I play with now. I will test to play some streamed completely crazy loudnessed even thick porridge music. I will see what happens when I play that crap later.

Although it sounds really good now I think. The shape of the speakers. They are heavy, few resonances. I can pull on a lot with volume without getting "sore ears". Should indicate relatively low distortion. Can I guess. Hm, when I think about it, maybe I should investigate how loud I actually play.

 

[Walter]

At 1W RMS, with something like classical music at a crest factor (dynmamic range) of 18-20, that 1 watt RMS is almost 100W peak.

At 5 watts sustained, with old-school (pre loudness wars) music you would still be having peaks over 100W.

So the sustained power almost doesn’t matter, except maybe for sub woofers and rap music. It is all about how much clipping is happening and if it is clipping in a distressing way or not.

Yes, just saying what measurements I take into consideration.

 

[anphex]

First impression: IT'S TINY! SO VERY TINY!
I instantly plugged into my NuVero 170 front speakers to look for glaring differences.
First noticable thing is the low gain of 19 dB compared to Hypex with 29 dB.
Also I tried hitting some unholy dB levels of music and sine sweeps to make out any clipping but couldn't hear any, despite my speakers being 85dB/1Watt spec.

I will compare it to the Hypex in Denon Pure Direct mode a while and then decide which amp I choose for front and which one for surrounds.
Oh, and I just used a cheap RCA-RCA cable with two RCA-TRS(unbalanced)plugs to connect it to the Denon 3700. No noise, no issues, everything's fine.

 

[BoredErica]

First impression: IT'S TINY! SO VERY TINY!
I instantly plugged into my NuVero 170 front speakers to look for glaring differences.
First noticable thing is the low gain of 19 dB compared to Hypex with 29 dB.
Also I tried hitting some unholy dB levels of music and sine sweeps to make out any clipping but couldn't hear any, despite my speakers being 85dB/1Watt spec.

I will compare it to the Hypex in Denon Pure Direct mode a while and then decide which amp I choose for front and which one for surrounds.
Oh, and I just used a cheap RCA-RCA cable with two RCA-TRS(unbalanced)plugs to connect it to the Denon 3700. No noise, no issues, everything's fine.

Cute bunny!


Okay for pa7 I'd like a remote please.

 

[Matias]

Okay for pa7 I'd like a remote please.

PA5 was a home run of a release... for a desktop amp.

I am also very curious of the future "PA7 or PA9" amps what they achieve in measurements, conveniences (such as remote, inputs, etc), size and price.

 

[anphex]

So far, not much audible difference, but I am actually a little more comfortable with the PA5 than with the NC400. It may be full placebo or the slightly improved THD+N because of the higher pre out output, maybe even the improved switching frequency (460 Khz vs 600 Khz) and it's damping.
I am gonna go ahead and use the Hypex for now as surrounds and calibrate my system anew with Audyssey. Who knows, maybe I'll sell the Hypex and get a second PA5 if the ~100 Watt don't make me run into problems in some movies.

 

[Prana Ferox]

Thanks to the immediate response! therefore the maximum power at 8ohm is 85w. are 85w real?

Watts are by definition real, if you're including the reactive element you would give the value in VA

:V

 

[mike70]

Check with a blind test ... you need to adjust the output levels the best as you can.

Maybe you have a big surprise. In general, levelled amplifiers are indistinguishable, unless they're out of work with the speakers / room acoustics.

 

[mario_rouge]

Watts are by definition real, if you're including the reactive element you would give the value in VA

:V

For example Aiyima declares 300w for its A07 but we know that with the supplied power supply (32v 5A) it does not reach 60w / 70w 8ohm. Does the pa5 have the watts declared by Topping? Sorry again for my ignorance.

 

[voodooless]

For example Aiyima declares 300w for its A07 but we know that with the supplied power supply (32v 5A) it does not reach 60w / 70w 8ohm. Does the pa5 have the watts declared by Topping? Sorry again for my ignorance.

All that data is in the review. It makes about 48W at 8 Ohm.

 

[bravomail]

Got my PA5 and here are short impressions.
Speaker posts seem solid this time - no funny business, rotation etc.
PS connection/cable has a captive screw nut. So u can screw tight ur power to the amp. Not sure if it's a plus or a minus, but it sure added to the cost.
Why do they have 2 inputs and a switch for them - is also beyond me, and it also added to the cost.
I tested with my Windows 10 PC, foobar2000 in push WASAPI 32 bit mode, FLAC files, Topping E50 USB input/balanced TRS output in Pre mode/Filter1, Cable Creations cheap TRS cables, PA5 amp, JBL A170 tower speakers.
For context, some of my comparisons will be drawn between Topping PA5 and AIYIMA A07.
Gain is low, so u better turning ur volume up.
Temperature of PA5 case is just slightly warm (A07 stays stone cold for me on 24V10A PSU). I wonder if there is a mechanical/thermal connection between the case and radiator. I'd wait on comments from DIYers on both thermal pads and replacing PSU with lower voltage one. But temp is just "slightly warm". Not getting to "hot" territory at all. I wonder if @amirm can take temp camera picture of Topping PA5 inside.
Sound is very clean/transparent, u can call it "clinically clean" , so u can maintain ur proper audio-hygiene , no hiss from speakers at all even with ear next to it.
Bass and subbass is rendered from speakers a little cleaner (compared to A07).
Busy music passages of mids are "not muddy" (unlike Sabaj A20a), they r clean, but still no good layering of A07, maybe chip deficiency of TPA3251 vs TPA3255, maybe there is a compression (?) in A07 bringing up hidden details, or that slight FR bump in higher freqs in A07, maybe there is interaction with JBL A170 speakers being pushed too hard in low freqs and muddying waters. Still somehow, for me, A07 comes on top here. Take this whole passage as a subjective note. You mileage and experience could be completely different.
I did 3d binaural test based on TheVerge NY city video. It works well.
Overall: was my mind blown? Not really, in fact, you'll find PA5 sound "unobjectinable", it's not in the way of your music - completely transparent? A07 kinda adds its own "fun flavor" to it. Speakers do not hiss - so there's that. Keeper? You bet!

 

[Moosi]

If your SabajA20a sounds somehow "muddy" you have a problem with AC noise seeping in from the mains. Do you live in Europe?
I can hear echoes over echoes on mine after modding it with N30 Ferrite to the ACins. It's as clear as a mountain river filled with distilled water.

 

[bravomail]

If your SabajA20a sounds somehow "muddy" you have a problem with AC noise seeping in from the mains. Do you live in Europe?
I can hear echoes over echoes on mine after modding it with N30 Ferrite to the ACins. It's as clear as a mountain river filled with distilled water.

offtopic - no, it's not power. I'm in US. and A20a is a fine choice. just personal preference for A07.

 

[WonkyDonkey]

Hi, forum noob here.

So let me get this straight; with the actual sensitivity of my Forte IIIs being 95dB/W and sitting at 3.1m (10'1") then I'd be hitting 105dB(SPL) at the listening position off 10W and that's not accounting for the room contribution. The 85W @ 4 Ohms, insufficent for many on here are about 65W more than I could actually ever use and that doesn't take into account the Fortes handing over to the 15" subs at 80Hz....

The 19dB gain means I'll be able to turn my pre-amp up 10dB for a given listening level which would match the equally low gain of my subwoofers - 19dB gain works for some of us!

This is before I even countenance the vastly lower distortion and vastly higher dynamic range, and vastly lower noise floor compared to 120W valve monoblocks that would sell on for 4x the price of the Topping?

In my head I can't think of a reason not to hit 'buy', even before I consider all of the other system changes that released capital would set in motion?

Russ

 

[anphex]

Oooh I just got one channel to shut down. Seems like LFE movie effects are too heavy of a load for it at 85dB/1watt speakers. Exact movie and time was Shang-Chi at 01:00:08 when a character is kicking down a wall.
It was about a little quieter than cinema level.

Then I'll switch back to Hypex for front and use the PA5 for surrounds just as I originally intended.

 

[ModDIY]

If your SabajA20a sounds somehow "muddy" you have a problem with AC noise seeping in from the mains. Do you live in Europe?
I can hear echoes over echoes on mine after modding it with N30 Ferrite to the ACins. It's as clear as a mountain river filled with distilled water.

Perfectly agree, the Sabaj A20a isn't muddy at all across the frequency spectrum. I compared it with a few amps and speakers, the A20a is very detailed and the soundstage is quite wide with good depth. Ultra silent with RCA and XLR.

 

[0bs3rv3r]

How do you measure "muddy" ?