Topping PA5 Review (Amplifier)

[SaltyCDogg]

You could try something like this that will deliver a lot of power into 2 ohms

AUDIOPHONICS LPA-S500NC Amplificateur Stéréo Class D Ncore 2x500W 4 Ohm - Audiophonics

Stereo amplifier based on amplification module Hypex Ncore NC502MP with RCA and XLR inputs.

www.audiophonics.fr

 

[G.R.Waters]

You gotta be kidding - you're comparing a 240W / 4ohm amp to an 83W / 4ohm amp.

Sorry, no... as I wrote I'm lost in figures. I had also an 2X EL34 22W/8hm in triode tubes plugged for a while and the sound was comparable to xa160, so I thought it was more a question of dip impedence rather than Wattage. Anyway if not one not even 2X pa5 would do?

 

[G.R.Waters]

You could try something like this that will deliver a lot of power into 2 ohms

AUDIOPHONICS LPA-S500NC Amplificateur Stéréo Class D Ncore 2x500W 4 Ohm - Audiophonics

Stereo amplifier based on amplification module Hypex Ncore NC502MP with RCA and XLR inputs.

www.audiophonics.fr

Thanks! It's within budget of 2X pa5, so it is feasible.

 

[NTK]

I've read here and there post on pa5 being able to drive certain speakers or not, not to go lower than 2 ohms and similar, so here is my case - and forgive me but I was never good at math and even if I rougly understand the notions it's still too technical for me to place down the numbers on the needed equation (which I see above) by myself.
I have Martin Logan SL3 vintage speakers (https://www.martinlogan.com/en/product/sl3) very well sounding but lacking bass strenght (no matter if near o far from front wall). In other forums it's debated wether this is their weakness or rather a consequence of lack of "juicy" amplification, with 89dB/2.83V/m but a low impedence dip of 1.5 ohms.
Currently they are fed by Advance Paris xa160 - spec. here https://productz.com/en/advance-acoustic-x-a160/p/mxrdp straight from a Topping d90se via xlr interconnets at 5.2V, never used higher than -30db attenuation for my ears health's sake.

Moving the xa160 to a second system would a Topping pa5 purchase an upgrade?
If not, would 2 combined pa5 (used as monoblock - if possible - or bi-amping woofer and electrostat separately) be?
I temporarily placed a sub for testing, but in true the room space doesn't allow it to remain, so subwoofer is not a feasible solution, altough it clearly worked well.

I can't find the sensitivity spec. or gain in Advanced Acoustic's site, so I'll have to make a (educated) guess. I'll assume your speaker amplifier gain is the same as the THX standard of 29 dB. If you run your D90SE with volume setting never exceeds -30 dB, combining with the assumed amplifier gain of 29 dB, effectively your are running your combo with a combined gain of ~1x (~0 dB) maximum.

Since the D90SE's max output (at 0 dB volume setting) is 5.2 Vrms, the output from your speaker amp will also max out at ~5 Vrms, which is ~6-7 W into 4 ohm loads. Seems to me the PA5 should provide ample headroom at your listening level.

Here is the Stereophile impedance measurements.

MartinLogan SL3 loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 5: Measurements I hate measuring panel speakers. Why? Because the usual assumptions you make when you measure a loudspeaker—that the microphone distance is large compared with the physical size of the speaker and that the mike is therefore in the speaker's farfield—are no longer true. As...

www.stereophile.com

There are a few places impedance dropped below 4 ohm. I wouldn't worry about the low impedance at >~7 kHz as the energy there with music is almost always very low. I believe the PA5 should be able to handle the other low spots at ~50-100 Hz and 1-2.5 kHz without much trouble.

 

[G.R.Waters]

I can't find the sensitivity spec. or gain in Advanced Acoustic's site, so I'll have to make a (educated) guess. I'll assume your speaker amplifier gain is the same as the THX standard of 29 dB. If you run your D90SE with volume setting never exceeds -30 dB, combining with the assumed amplifier gain of 29 dB, effectively your are running your combo with a combined gain of ~1x (~0 dB) maximum.

Since the D90SE's max output (at 0 dB volume setting) is 5.2 Vrms, the output from your speaker amp will also max out at ~5 Vrms, which is ~6-7 W into 4 ohm loads. Seems to me the PA5 should provide ample headroom at your listening level.

Here is the Stereophile impedance measurements.

MartinLogan SL3 loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 5: Measurements I hate measuring panel speakers. Why? Because the usual assumptions you make when you measure a loudspeaker—that the microphone distance is large compared with the physical size of the speaker and that the mike is therefore in the speaker's farfield—are no longer true. As...

www.stereophile.com

View attachment 188238
There are a few places impedance dropped below 4 ohm. I wouldn't worry about the low impedance at >~7 kHz as the energy there with music is almost always very low. I believe the PA5 should be able to handle the other low spots at ~50-100 Hz and 1-2.5 kHz without much trouble.

Thank you for the exhaustive, very clear answer and the link to stereophile test. In all my googling for this speakers before the purchase and in setting them up it never came as a link. Funny to see that in placing them I started 4.5m far away from listening point near the front wall and ended 10cm by 10 cm at actual 3.20m from listening point, exactly the same distance of ML factory measurements. Having read it before I would have maybe started from 3.20m and spared myself a week of attempts in search of the sweet spot.

 

[yavormoskov]

If your source's max output is high enough, you might make the PA5 clip. And you're more likely to hear upstream noise after it's amplified.

Usual advice is to turn down the amp to 0, max out the source's volume, then slowly increase the amp's output until it's a tiny bit louder than you'd ever need. At that point, you can control volume from the source without worrying about the amp.

Thank you.

 

[16cores]

(I can hear the first click under foot already but I will proceed with this post anyway....)

My PA 5 finally arrived Saturday after a two week journey from China. The Topping E50 had already arrived as well as some TRS cables from Amazon.

I hooked things up Saturday with the enthusiasm of a twelve year old on Christmas morning.

I've now had two days of listening and here are my thoughts.

The amp and DAC are connected to a Raspberry Pi W2 with a microUSB to USB B cable and a Sangean HD20 FM receiver with a co-ax and optical cables. (I had the cables on hand so why not. BTW, no difference in sound between the co-ax and optical that I can tell.)

The amp is connected to a pair of Elac Reference DBR62 speakers. 12g, braided, copper wire connecting the speakers.

Prior to Saturday, I was switching between an Aiyima 04 and 07 amps powered by a Mean Well 36 V, 7A power brick (GST 220A36-R78). Full disclosure, I have 1612 op amps in both the Aiyimas.

Completely subjective observations

The PA 5 sounds good. Very crisp, clean sound.

- Power: Though there has been doubt that it has enough power to drive the Elacs - quoting Amir from his Elac review, "So you better have a beefy amplifier to drive this speaker." the PA5 (and the Aiyimas) drives these speakers quite well.

- Having to deal with the TRS cables is a pain in the neck.

- When in idle mode, the case is slightly warm to the touch. (By comparison, the Aiyimas seem to be room temperature even when cranked up.)

- Sounds great

Do I like the set-up? Absolutely. Is it and end-game configuration? I haven't closed my Visa account just yet.

Recommendations

Would I recommend the Topping and DAC? I would, but only if you have the spare cash and want to know that you have a small system that specs out in the ethereal test zones of ASR reviews.

If you can't rationalize/ justify/ get the wife to let you drop three K on a Benchmark to know you have the biggest, baddest, kick-butt config there is, this isn't a bad runner-up, particularly if you're not worried about impressing the neighbors with how loud you can crank the music, or your buddies at how cool your $20K stereo set-up looks.

The Porsche GT3 factor just doesn't play with the Topping config.

However, if you're just getting into audiophilia or your budget is more modest, go with an Aiyima 04 or 07 with the Mean Well Power supply and a cheap RCA A-B-C selector switch for input. (For some reason - subjective- I like the sound of the 04 over the 07 but it's subtle (or imaginary).) Attach a Rasberry Pi streamer to your configutation and you're rocking.

Total spend on the Aiyimas: about $125. With the Topping, and cables, I'm at around $625. The Topping is a very nice system but not worth the extra $500 IMHO. If my budget were tight, I'd recommend putting the $500 into better speakers like the Elacs (which, btw, I am infatuated with) instead.

My .02.

(Let me take this opportunity to don my Nomex fire suit for some protection from the flames that will, I know, soon be coming my way!)

Came across this whilst looking for reviews outlining the performance of the pa5 + dbr62. Do you still use this setup and enjoy it? I have heard the speakers require more power to open up and the pa5 is rated for about 50w at 8ohm with the speakers at 6ohm. Im going to be using them nearfield with maybe 1.5-2m of space between myself and the speakers in a small to medium room so im hoping its enough. Without testing 2 amps with them its hard to know.

 

[Barry32]

I am now using the PA5 for two months or so. Since a week it's giving a little thump noise from the right speaker as I switch it off.
Do others also hear that thumb noise when switching off? Is it faulty design issue of failure of the amp?

My pre-amp is high power use (class A design) and generating lots of heat so leaving the PA5 powered on is not an option to me

 

[Toku]

I am now using the PA5 for two months or so. Since a week it's giving a little thump noise from the right speaker as I switch it off.
Do others also hear that thumb noise when switching off? Is it faulty design issue of failure of the amp?

My pre-amp is high power use (class A design) and generating lots of heat so leaving the PA5 powered on is not an option to me

I have a question.
Does the symptom appear when the power switch of PA5 is operated?
Or does it come out when the system power is operated with the master switch?

 

[cfo92130]

I am now using the PA5 for two months or so. Since a week it's giving a little thump noise from the right speaker as I switch it off.
Do others also hear that thumb noise when switching off? Is it faulty design issue of failure of the amp?

My pre-amp is high power use (class A design) and generating lots of heat so leaving the PA5 powered on is not an option to me

No noise for me when the power switch of PA5 is operated. But, there is noise when the power is cut off before the power apadtor of the PA5.

 

[Barry32]

No noise for me when the power switch of PA5 is operated. But, there is noise when the power is cut off before the power apadtor of the PA5.

When the power switch is operated there is a faint thumb noise from the right speaker.

I do not disconnect the amplifier from the power block. I do not operate a power switch on the power block.

 

[IPunchCholla]

When the power switch is operated there is a faint thumb noise from the right speaker.

I do not disconnect the amplifier from the power block. I do not operate a power switch on the power block.

I occasionally get a noise when the power is cut to the PA5 from a source besides the switch (my power strip turns off whenever my computer goes to sleep), but not when I use the switch.

 

[DWPress]

Does the symptom appear when the power switch of PA5 is operated?
Or does it come out when the system power is operated with the master switch?

I use my PA5 just for my tweeters in an active XO so amps are all on a triggered power strip. If I kill power to the system I get some scratchy grunge coming through the tweeters but nothing if I use the switch on the front of the PA5. I just turn off the PA5 first before powering everything else down and then flip the switch back up so it's ready to go next time. Not ideal, but not a deal breaker for me as the amp stack is close at hand.

 

[Bleib]

Too many pages to read, but is there a chance for a RCA version of this being released?

 

[anotherhobby]

Too many pages to read, but is there a chance for a RCA version of this being released?

I've read the whole thread and have seen nothing indicating this.

 

[Bleib]

I've read the whole thread and have seen nothing indicating this.

Too bad. Digital volume adjustment would be welcome too and a remote

 

[Barry32]

I use my PA5 just for my tweeters in an active XO so amps are all on a triggered power strip. If I kill power to the system I get some scratchy grunge coming through the tweeters but nothing if I use the switch on the front of the PA5. I just turn off the PA5 first before powering everything else down and then flip the switch back up so it's ready to go next time. Not ideal, but not a deal breaker for me as the amp stack is close at hand.

I can live with the slight thumb noise. If gets worse I'll get in touch with the shop I bought it from.
For now still very satisfied with the amp.

 

[anotherhobby]

I can live with the slight thumb noise. If gets worse I'll get in touch with the shop I bought it from.
For now still very satisfied with the amp.

I just tested my PA5 for you, paying extra close attention, and it does make a very quiet 'tick' in my speakers when I turn it on, and slightly more noticeable 'tick' when I turn it off using the front switch. I don't really hear this in normal operation though. My PA5 is also not truly 100% silent, but I can't hear anything unless I put my ear POINT BLANK against the tweeter of my Revel M105's, and then I can hear the faintest of noise.

To exaggerate the noises I just explained, I put my iPhone 12 Pro's microphone in direct contact with the tweeter grill on one of the Revel M105's and recorded the power on followed by power off 5 seconds later, and you can hear all of it since the mic is just a few mm from the tweeter.

I uploaded the audio to SoundCloud. Here is an explanation (mic point blank on tweeter the whole time):

• tick at 2s is the physical sound from 1M away of me flipping the PA5 power switch (a good reference for loudness)
• a quieter tick at 5s is from the tweeter after the PA5 is powered on
• there is a tiny increase in noise from the tweeter that can be heard from that point until 10s
• a final tick at 10s is from the tweeter when the power switch on the PA5 is turned off

https://soundcloud.com/dan-cunningham-764711364%2Fpa5-speaker-tick

 

[Eldus]

I just tested my PA5 for you, paying extra close attention, and it does make a very quiet 'tick' in my speakers when I turn it on, and slightly more noticeable 'tick' when I turn it off using the front switch. I don't really hear this in normal operation though. My PA5 is also not truly 100% silent, but I can't hear anything unless I put my ear POINT BLANK against the tweeter of my Revel M105's, and then I can hear the faintest of noise.

To exaggerate the noises I just explained, I put my iPhone 12 Pro's microphone in direct contact with the tweeter grill on one of the Revel M105's and recorded the power on followed by power off 5 seconds later, and you can hear all of it since the mic is just a few mm from the tweeter.

I uploaded the audio to SoundCloud. Here is an explanation (mic point blank on tweeter the whole time):

• tick at 2s is the physical sound from 1M away of me flipping the PA5 power switch (a good reference for loudness)
• a quieter tick at 5s is from the tweeter after the PA5 is powered on
• there is a tiny increase in noise from the tweeter that can be heard from that point until 10s
• a final tick at 10s is from the tweeter when the power switch on the PA5 is turned off

https://soundcloud.com/dan-cunningham-764711364%2Fpa5-speaker-tick

Are you using a balanced DAC?

 

[anotherhobby]

Are you using a balanced DAC?

I'm feeding it from a balanced miniDSP Flex. Behavior is identical if I unplug the input cables from the PA5, or if I switch the PA5 to use the other input that is not in use.