Topping PA3s Review (Desktop Amplifier)

[sarumbear]

Cool , so you have been engineering it 2.5 years. Is it so hard?

Ignorance is bliss but sarcasm when have no idea on the subject is rude.

 

[sarumbear]

Thanks for the explanation, I will be looking forward to your design. As a small challenge, this is the same/similar kind of measurement on a small class AB amplifier with TMC compensation. I hope you will get better . I tried to keep the same scaling as @amirm for fast comparison.

View attachment 156842
(BTW I need more than 7 minutes for a single plot, these 4 plots take more than 30 minutes)
-----------------------

and Topping as per the review>

@pma I asked earlier but you may have missed it. What is that small amplifier make & model and new cost you are referring, please? Without knowing it it’s not possible to understand the point you are making. I hope you will agree.

 

[Yevhen]

Ignorance is bliss but sarcasm when have no idea on the subject is rude.

In my case ordering of the complex multiplayer board with integrated heat spreader for the ICs takes up to 9 months. And then another 9 months if something goes wrong. Plus months in the reliability lab. So 2.5years from idea to industrialized product is not so bad

 

[noel_fs]

Hmmm.... Come on!

For your inspiration, Boulder 3050 monoblock

View attachment 156832

are those specs actually real

 

[Tangband]

Hard to know the implementation's SINAD without the manufacturer telling. Genelec states 0.05% of THD at 1/8 of the available power and the generated speaker noise separately (x dB(A) SPL at 1 m). Neumann specifies its amplifier power at fixed THD+N (i.e. "Output power woofer amplifier (THD+N with limiter deactivated: 0.1%)" for the KH120A) and self-generated noise in the same fasion as Genelec (at 10 cm, though).

Thats true for the older Genelecs, like 8040 with chip amp amplifiers, where the spec is 0,05%.

https://assets.ctfassets.net/4zjnzn055a4v/67DMY6rUTSKsIwIM2iEWSw/ab188eec8e0e536eeae580f2968fd576/8040b_8050b_en_fi_opman_e.pdf

The newer ones, like 8340 with class D amplifiers have less than 0,01% THD at maximum output.

https://assets.ctfassets.net/4zjnzn055a4v/6tQDwmoSO9RpdITny6Mx6O/25f2fde0c87eb7767a7eaac4d2ff0efe/8340A_opman.pdf

 

[Oukkidoukki]

Ignorance is bliss but sarcasm when have no idea on the subject is rude.

I apologize. Tried to joke but there is language wall.

 

[sarumbear]

There’s still not enough data to calculate SINAD but their stated values show very low levels of distortion and inaudible noise levels.

 

[Tangband]

This is poor, again, same as for many cheap class D amplifiers.

View attachment 156836

Unfortunately, Hypex Ncore and Purifi remain the only well behaving class D amplifiers. Still a lot to learn, @JohnYang1997 .

What do you think about this tpa3255 with pff . Is it still bad ?

JL ELectronics Sylph-D200 Amplifier Module Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the JL Electronic's (JLE) Sylph-D200 stereo amplifier module built on top of TI's TPA3255 amplifier IC. Depending on the configuration you pick, the module costs US $130 to $170. You can read more about it here...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[antcollinet]

Probably because they have a euro distributor and not a UK one, so it's euro price, - vat, + UK vat shipping and duty. So basically the same cost of goods, don't blame topping, blame the gammon twats who wanted brexit.

While brexit is painfully obviously a shit show - I don't think it can be used to justify this price difference.

VAT between UK and germany is only 1% difference (19 in DE, 20 in UK). UK duty for audio kit is 0%, so that would put shipping (in bulk) from germany to UK at £23 per piece. Seems unlikely.

 

[sarumbear]

I apologize. Tried to joke but there is language wall.

Thank you for taking the time to explain.

 

[NiagaraPete]

Sells for 199.00 CDN free shipping plus HST 13%. Looks like a good candidate for a garage system.

Topping PA3s MA12070×2 Fully Balanced Class D Power Amplifier 80W×80W RCA/TRS Input Desktop HiFi 2 Channel Power Amp Home Audio Amplifier (Black) : Amazon.ca: Electronics

Topping PA3s MA12070×2 Fully Balanced Class D Power Amplifier 80W×80W RCA/TRS Input Desktop HiFi 2 Channel Power Amp Home Audio Amplifier (Black) : Amazon.ca: Electronics

www.amazon.ca

 

[ModDIY]

Seems like a pretty good deal for 2 x MA12070 with a balanced entry. I am expecting another amp with 2 MA12070s, if this one had been released just before, I would have been interested in buying it.

 

[Helicopter]

Thanks Amir.

John, looks like a good product, but my favorite thing about it is that it isn't the one we are waiting for.

I love the way Topping has been using TRS in the small platform gear.

Pricing looks fine to me across markets. I look at some comparative prices before drawing conclusions. Your money goes further in some places than others.

 

[sseppala]

I agree that we shouldn't compare products that aren't in the same price range ore maybe more, in the same "Price per Watt" range, but hey whether it's class AB, whether there is a different feedback topology, error correction, and such, it's of course interesting to note but in the end all have the same job to do. It's not how you get there, it's how good, and that include how energy efficient, you are at amplifying an audio signal. I don't think we can only compare class D or other topology separately, in the end the expected result is the same.

I agree that topology as such does not matter if all other things are kept equal. Class AB is to me just so synonymous with lower efficiency that I didn't elaborate it further. I mentioned the error correction only because in my view it makes the Neurocrome Modulus amplifiers something more than Chipamp, as which the original comment categorized it in my view. Although, he might have meant the "LM3886 Done Correctly"-board, which I did not remember. I probably should be more precise.

 

[pma]

I agree that we shouldn't compare products that aren't in the same price range ore maybe more, in the same "Price per Watt" range, but hey whether it's class AB, whether there is a different feedback topology, error correction, and such, it's of course interesting to note but in the end all have the same job to do. It's not how you get there, it's how good, and that include how energy efficient, you are at amplifying an audio signal. I don't think we can only compare class D or other topology separately, in the end the expected result is the same.

I agree, an amplifier is a "black box" for the common end user (not for the designer). It has the input, it has the output, and it is supposed to amplify the signal, to yield an amplified copy of the input signal at its output, regardless the load used. We can more or less approach this "ideal" and the only way how to prove it is a wide set of parameters and measurements to confirm how successful we were in this effort. It is absolutely unimportant what is inside that black box, should it be class B, AB, D, H, G or whatever, the only measure are the results and the results are to be compared, not fixed to certain topology or class of operation. If some topology is inferior in some parameters, here namely nonlinearity, then why not to admit it and name it clearly.

 

[OverTheAir]

I hope the reliability of this PA3s is better than the two TP22 I have. Early in their life, with very minimal use for one of them, both started to introduce random crackle into the output including full loss of one or other channel on occasions. Opened them up but too many component options, including too many capacitors, to try swapping out for a fix. Pity because they are otherwise fine for my use when they settle into a mode where the crackle stops occurring.

On a somewhat related note I hope all electronics manufacturers are being very careful where they source components from during these shortages to avoid inadvertent use of the likely rise of counterfeit components in circulation.

 

[Vict0r]

Thanks for the review! This looks like a great little amp for passive desktop media speakers. Before I went the active monitors route, I used a Topping TP22 with a set of Wharfedale Diamond 9.1's and I had little to complain about for the total sum of $150 invested. I like Topping gear. I still have that little TP22 and it still works fine. Must be more than 10 years old now?

 

[sq225917]

Tony if the stock is held bonded in Europe then it could legally be only UK vat, plus other charges, not necessailly double vat, if its held in a none bonded warehouse then its cost of goods plus shipping and insurance plus uk duty and vat on top of the European price. So figure 50-60 quid on a 200 item.

If they have a bonded warehouse it could be less European vat...if. for sales of finished goods within Europe that's an unlikely business complexity and expense as it only offers the business a tiny benefit for a small % of sales.

Its what the people wanted, they voted for it.

 

[antcollinet]

Tony if the stock is held bonded in Europe then it could legally be only UK vat, plus other charges, not necessailly double vat, if its held in a none bonded warehouse then its cost of goods plus shipping and insurance plus uk duty and vat on top of the European price. So figure 50-60 quid on a 200 item.

If they have a bonded warehouse it could be less European vat...if. for sales of finished goods within Europe that's an unlikely business complexity and expense as it only offers the business a tiny benefit for a small % of sales.

Its what the people wanted, they voted for it.

Yes - of course. So Uk should pay 20% vat plus shipping. Germany just pays the 19% vat (if we assume shipping is already paid to Germany.

So the if UK duty is zero rated, then the only difference in cost should be shipping to UK. That doesn't justify the price increas.

In reality - Amazon acts as a distributor in any case. It is not normal for amazon warehouses to need an intermidiate distributor - so I would expect shipping to be direct from China to the UK warehouses. So in fact I'd expect shipping costs to UK to be the same as to EU.

Price in that case should be the same, and unaffectd by Brexit.

 

[sarumbear]

I can’t find PA3s on Amazon UK. Can anyone post a link please? Thank you.