• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Topping PA3: subjective impressions

GGroch

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 7, 2018
Messages
1,059
Likes
2,049
Location
Denver, Colorado
Right Seklem. The SA-98E and PA-3 are approximately 50 wpc amps into 8 ohms at reasonably low distortion (ref Xulonn's thread above or TI's power figures for the amp).

The problem is not the chip. I just tested my Indeed TDA7489E amp and I can just barely hear hiss 3 inches from the tweeter, no further than that with 87dB efficiency speakers. The issue is the input gain chosen by the amp mfg, not the chip or the power. We do not know the gain setting of the SA-98E (I can find no tests). One user reviewer of the SA-98E said he could not use it above 9 O'clock on the volume or it blasted him out...so that is not encouraging. On the other hand... a very slight audible hiss bothers some people a lot more than others. I guess you do not know until you experience it.
 
Last edited:
OP
SEKLEM

SEKLEM

Active Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2019
Messages
275
Likes
326
Location
Indiana
Right Seklem. The SA-98E and PA-3 are approximately 50 wpc amps into 8 ohms at reasonably low distortion (ref Xulonn's thread above or TI's power figures for the amp).

The problem is not the chip. I just tested my Indeed TPA7489E amp and I can just barely hear hiss 3 inches from the tweeter, no further than that with 87dB efficiency speakers. The issue is the input gain chosen by the amp mfg, not the chip or the power. We do not know the gain setting of the SA-98E (I can find no tests). One user reviewer of the SA-98E said he could not use it above 9 O'clock on the volume or it blasted him out...so that is not encouraging. On the other hand... a very slight audible hiss bothers some people a lot more than others. I guess you do not know until you experience it.

My assumption was based on the lack of specifications from the manufacturer. It doesn’t inspire confidence for the buyer if that information isn’t provided.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2018
Messages
76
Likes
58
based on my past experiences with smsl products i think it should have less gain than PA3, both SA-50 and AD18 have a lower hiss on the speakers.
only thing worth investigating might be the internal build. i have found 2 different internal configurations: 1 with a 4700uF condenser, the other with 3 1000uF and some other differences. don't know which one is the latest version
 
Joined
May 29, 2019
Messages
5
Likes
0
It sounds like the difference in actual power on tap, at least for the SMSL SA-50 will be about 1/4 of the PA3 according to the numbers provided by Topping on Xulonn's thread. The SA-98E appears to be directly competitive with the PA3, in fact they use the same chip I believe, but the power output ratings provided by the manufacturer are at 10-12% THD and no SNR figures are provided, so you could be walking into just as much noise if not more.

Indeed, I see. Maybe I better start looking for powered speakers, like Swans or so, instead. Thanks.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2018
Messages
76
Likes
58
Well i don't think powered speakers would be much better.
Personally speaking cheap amps are fine if you put aside these cons like hissing. They're still worth a try, just look for models with low gain
 

GGroch

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 7, 2018
Messages
1,059
Likes
2,049
Location
Denver, Colorado
Incredible. How close will you sit/lie normally from the speakers themselves in your bedroom? If it is 4 feet or more I don't think you will notice the hiss at all. If you will be within 2 feet you may hear it...but it might or might not bother you. If you are closer than 4 feet consider amps designed for desktop use like the Micca Origain or Xtrempro 11111. Desktop amps will almost always have low gain because they know you can hear it sitting close. I have the Xtrempro and it has no hiss, sounds great (its actually an AudioEngine N22 with an optical/coax DAC built in..but you do not have to use the DAC).

Buy from someone with a good return policy. Anything Amazon Prime in the US will let you try it for 30 days, and give you free shipping on the return if you mention excess hiss as the reason.

I agree with Sir that powered speakers are not necessarily better. My JBL 306 mkII (designed for use in rooms/studios) have audible hiss. The smaller Swans HiVi X4 (designed for desktop use) have no hiss.
 
Joined
May 29, 2019
Messages
5
Likes
0
Incredible. How close will you sit/lie normally from the speakers themselves in your bedroom?

I'll be typically 1.5m (~4.9 feet) away, so maybe I should just try if the hiss is an issue. Of course, as was noted before by Seklem, the Bronze 2's have 90dB sensitivity, so maybe it's too much hiss... I'll see if I can find a store here in Europe that has the PA3 or the SA-98E and has a good return policy.

Thanks for your help, and sorry for hijacking the thread.
 

Tunnelrat81

Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2018
Messages
12
Likes
4
I can confirm that the gain difference between the SMSL SA-98E and the Topping PA3 is significant. I use the SA-98E in a ~700 sq/f drywall garage with Pioneer BS22 speakers mounted high along the back wall. When working at the nearby work bench, I typically have the volume setting at the 9 o'clock position when steaming Spotify through a CCA (at 50% volume), which is a moderate listening level. During the winter, we do a spin class in the garage and have 6-12 people on bike trainers, making quite a bit of white noise. When the class leader is running the amp directly from her microsoft surface laptop, the gain is usually closer to 12 o'clock on the dial.

I recently purchased and tested the PA3 in the same location and CCA, and to get similar volumes, the dial position was double what was required on the SA-98E, despite the amps using the same chip.

I ended up selling the PA3 (to another ASR user) because in my unscientific side by side comparisons it simply didn't sound as good to my ear (subjective impression alert :p).

-Jeremy
 

Xulonn

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
1,828
Likes
6,311
Location
Boquete, Chiriqui, Panama
My guess is that the case must be difficult to open.

Opening the PA3 was a challenge, and I obviously did it wrong since I broke the solder joints of the speaker terminals to the vertical daughterboard at the back of the case. And I still cannot remove the main board.

Topping PA3 - 2.JPG


I think I will add to my personal list of requirements for mini-components that the interior be accessible so that I - or my local electronics repair shop - can access the electronics and wiring for repair purposes such as reconnecting/re-soldering joints or replacing bulging/failed capacitors.
 
Last edited:

GGroch

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 7, 2018
Messages
1,059
Likes
2,049
Location
Denver, Colorado
OUCH! But :D for effort. I would have thought that if you unscrewed the volume control nut it would slide back. But, this explains why no one has seen the insides of the PA3 before.

The only device I could not open (without breaking something) so far has been a Loxjie D20 DAC. On it, the front black glass (plastic?) is glued on, with chassis screws behind that. It cracked when I pried it off...but is still usable.
 
OP
SEKLEM

SEKLEM

Active Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2019
Messages
275
Likes
326
Location
Indiana
Opening the PA3 was a challenge, and I obviously did it wrong since I broke the solder joints of the speaker terminals to the vertical daughterboard at the back of the case. And I still cannot remove the main board.

View attachment 27022

I think I will ad to my personal list of requirements for mini-components that the interior be accessible so that I - or my local electronics repair shop - can access the electronics and wiring for repair purposes such as reconnecting/re-soldering joints or replacing bulging/failed capacitors.

That really sucks. :(

If this is put together the same way the DX3 Pro a long allen key is required to take it apart correctly. As expansive as the DX3 Pro thread is, I don’t believe anyone has posted any nude photos of it. It’s pretty much guaranteed many of tried.
 
OP
SEKLEM

SEKLEM

Active Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2019
Messages
275
Likes
326
Location
Indiana
Snatched up a SMSL AD18 off Craigslist today. I’ve had good fortune finding nice pre-owned Chi-Fi lately. Look to see another subjective comparison and review of the AD18 in a couple weeks when I return from vacation.

E84970BC-92D5-4636-9DC0-85A0B8FF7B96.jpeg


After quickly hooking up the AD18 in the bedroom system I noted the audible hiss/noise was significantly less than the PA3. Also of worthy mention is the difference in Bluetooth connectivity. As long as the DX3 Pro is receiving power, even in standby, the Bluetooth receiver is active. The AD18 Bluetooth receiver is disabled when the unit is in standby and automatically connects to previously paired devices when powered on.
 
Last edited:

GGroch

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 7, 2018
Messages
1,059
Likes
2,049
Location
Denver, Colorado
I will be interested in learning your AD18 impressions. I owned one for a bit, but I will hold off on disclosing my objective qualitative descriptions until you report your personal subjective preferences ;)

I see FX Audio's version of the TDA7498E has internal dip switches to adjust the gain with 4 settings between 35.6 and 23.6. It has an 8200mf capacitor, 32V power supply, and socketed op amps.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2018
Messages
76
Likes
58
fx-audio recently put gain switches on some of their units which remarkable, especially on those cheap amplifiers.

the ad18 is a very cool amplifier in my opinion. the measurements aren't on point but they're also referred to the first version of the amplifier while now there's the third revision on the shelves so things might be better. other thing is that only USB input was tested while optical input might result cleaner as noticed several times on other reviews. the only con i can find is that it runs hotter than most class D amplifiers but nothing serious.
sound is ok i think, i've only used it with TV and a PS4 so no high fidelity stuff
 

Xulonn

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
1,828
Likes
6,311
Location
Boquete, Chiriqui, Panama
If this is put together the same way the DX3 Pro a long allen key is required to take it apart correctly.
That was my guess. Any idea what size hex key? (I assume is would be metric, and I could order a set of very small T-handle hex keys from Amazon with my next order.)
 
OP
SEKLEM

SEKLEM

Active Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2019
Messages
275
Likes
326
Location
Indiana
That was my guess. Any idea what size hex key? (I assume is would be metric, and I could order a set of very small T-handle hex keys from Amazon with my next order.)

I recall it was discussed in the DX3 Pro review thread, but I don’t have an off hand link to that information.

Edit: size 2mm, length 8 inches might be correct.
 

Xulonn

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
1,828
Likes
6,311
Location
Boquete, Chiriqui, Panama
I looked up the FX-Audio FX1002A, an amp with same module as the PA3's module - the TDA7498E - and it is available from AliExpress without the big brick PS (vs lower voltage wall-warts) - plus free shipping to the US - for $68. Plus, I pay no USA duty/tariff since it goes directly to a Panamanian forwarder in Miami.
FX-Audio-FX1002A.jpg

I just might order a pair of them, and use the 32vdc power supplies from my two dead Topping PA3's, and possibly sell one amp w/PS, thereby recovering a nice chunk of the money I lost on the Topping PA3's.

SMSL's version of the TDA7498E (the SA-98E) is a tiny bit less expensive at Amazon than AliExpress - $106 vs $114, and is not available without the PS. Also, the SMSL version uses a 36vdc PS, and the lower voltage (32vdc) Topping PS might be less stressful to the module.

One question bothers me though - was the failure of the PA3 due to a module defect - which would be an issus regardless of who assembled them into a case? Or was the sssembly and soldering by the packager/seller the problem? Perhaps I will find out when - and if - I get the long hex key and finish disassembly and inspection of the PA3.
 

GGroch

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 7, 2018
Messages
1,059
Likes
2,049
Location
Denver, Colorado
Xulonn, I'm sure you will do this but...be sure the FX-1002A you order has the gain dip switches...there are multiple versions of the FX-1002a and most I have seen naked do not have the switches. I would probably confirm with the Ali-Express seller directly because they are so hard to return.

I agree the amp will run cooler on 32V than 36...but I really doubt the issue you had was with the chip. Almost all of the cheap mini amps skimp on components and cooling vs the original TDA7498E demonstration board. The best built I have seen is the Indeed I referenced on your other thread, also available without power supply...but still a lot more expensive, and no dip switches.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2018
Messages
76
Likes
58
FX-1002A from audiophonics

here's a page of a FX-1002A sold in europe. as you can see it's interior it has the gain switch and also swappable op-amps (which on a cheap unit like this is useless but whatever).
as far as my electronics knowledge goes the board seems built better than other chi-fi class D amps
 
Top Bottom