Have you tried getting those Kantos about 10' Apart from each other and listening to them that way? That seems like huge overkill for a near field (2' from your ears) set up, polus the sub 8! lol
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TOPPING MX3s
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Hatto
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What I mean is it's theoretically IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to notice any difference between analog signals reproduced using 44.1kHz and 96kHz sampling, if signal D/A conversion is performed properly.
It is well proven by the Shannon-Nyquist sampling theorem that, any analog signal can be reproduced perfectly (i.e 100% exact copy of the analog signal that was sampled) once the sampling reaches the Nyquist rate, which is twice the highest frequency of the analog signal: 2 times 20kHz for non-superhuman hearing.
So if a music track is stored as a digital file that is sampled at 40kHz, the original analog music track can be recreated 100% accurately without any loss of information. Same is true for any sampling rate above 40kHz say 48kHz or 96kHz or 192kHz. Sampling rate does not have any effect on the analog signal once past 40kHz.
Once the analog signal is reproduced perfectly, there is no way of knowing if the sampling was 40kHz or 192kHz anymore. 40kHz is perfect and perfect is perfect, as 100% is 100%. There is no "better than perfect".
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Hatto
Active Member
Hearing some difference between 16-bit vs 24-bit is still a stretch for most people, but it is within the realm of possibility. That would be a more plausible explanation to any perceived differences than sampling rate.
I can't really get them father apart unfortunately. I tried the YU2 version, but I just didn't like how they sounded as much. These seem to blend really well with the sub8. I guess I didn't think it was so bad since you see people using even larger speakers on their desktops and rocking like 10" subs lol. Over all, it seems like there are a lot of 4" speakers people using for computer use like the Edifiers, Micca RB42, Elac BS41, etc.
That makes sense for sure. I guess my question is why do they even bother to build in these higher sampling rates to the DAC then? Just for bragging rights?
Hatto
Active Member
It goes something like this:
Common human hearing is up to 20kHz. But may be there are some people can hear a little (say 10%) above that or we just want some headroom for errors, which brings the Nyquist rate to 44kHz. Put just a little more for any further errors (because why not) and that brings us to 44.1kHz.
44.1 is not only an "ugly" number but also not one-to-one compatible with visual frame rates used in video production, mainly 24fps.
- If only we could have something like 48kHz to go with 24fps.
+ Done!
- OK, now I want double that so I can work in peace (without worrying about clipping, dynamic range compression etc.) when editing digital music files.
+ Fine. There you go 96kHz.
- Wait, did I say double? I meant quadruple!
+ Sigh! Well here you are 192kHz
Anything after that is beyond me.
Higher sampling rates make sense for digital editing of sound files to provide more flexibility in dynamic range, cherry picking and error correction etc but once the editing is complete and music is ready to be consumed, 40kHz is all we need. Yet, we get 44.1kHz to satisfy the audiophile lust for the overkill. However, the lust still remains unsatisfied once they hear that professionals are using higher sampling rates to handle editing headrooms and audiophiles throw a fit saying "but, but, but pros are using higher sampling rates, now I want to listen at those sampling rates WAaAaAagh!".
Audio equipment manufacturers oblige, seeing there's a market for that.
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I use those size in my front room! I can't imagine getting that close to them. I already use like .75 watts total! lol But you couldn't get some speaker stands and put them off a little each side? It would jsut be interesting how it would sound to you.
Like, as in, you will probably never hear THD+N lower than 1%, but we want .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%
Hatto
Active Member
Back on topic, I just tried both power on/off and switching inputs on MX3s. No pop in any of them.
I just realized your tag says oregon, hello fellow PNW friend! I'm in Vancouver, WA. Did you just get your MX3S today? I feel like it's a nice unit.. but it should really be a little closer to the 150-170 mark.
Hatto
Active Member
Hi fellow PNWer.
Hah! We're probably half an hour drive from each other.I got it on April 2nd if I recall correctly. That's exactly what I thought and paid $169 on Amazon during a Topping sale by the end of March. My thinking was that I can pay $150 for the MX3s and splurge an extra $20 on early adopter privileges.
I believe it'll fall back to that price range eventually, but for right now Loxjie A30 and Topping MX3s are the prime contenders filling the "small AIO stereo amp" niche under $200 and MX3s is the most recent one, so I can't really blame them for a small premium. Or Topping may be even offering some extra value through superior specs worth $20-30 extra as well.
It was on sale for 169.00 just recently, on Amazon. However, it is a DAC, Preamp, and Amp. If it tests clean, that's a good deal, even at 199.00.
ohnonotagain
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Has anyone who owns one of these tried sending it DSD or DoP over each of the inputs? The AK4377 DAC supports DSD and DoP but it's not mentioned in any of Topping's material.
ohnonotagain
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I was curious as to whether anyone's tried, because it's possible that the DAC would just accept the DoP input and play it back correctly, given it has support for DoP playback. I don't think that's possible because the datasheet seems to suggest that the DAC has to be manually put into DSD mode, and that would mean Topping would have to explicitly implement support for it in their firmware, and if they had then presumably they'd highlight it in their marketing material. Still, if any owners could give it a go to confirm one way or another, that'd be great!
Zek
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If the input is limited to 192kHz, then even the lowest DSD64 file cannot be played as DoP because it must support 176kHz rate.
ohnonotagain
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Possibly. You’d expect it would support 176.4kHz as that’s less than 192kHz and being a multiple of 44.1 it’s a standard frequency, but the spec doesn’t confirm it, and I have seen DAC units support only the multiples of 48kHz, so it is possible that it’s not supported.
In any case, it looks like all the inputs pass through the QCC3040 Bluetooth controller, and that’s probably where the DSP is. So a DoP bitstream may not get to the DAC intact.
In any case, it looks like all the inputs pass through the QCC3040 Bluetooth controller, and that’s probably where the DSP is. So a DoP bitstream may not get to the DAC intact.
I just mailed them.
PurpaSmart
Member
I wonder how this compares to the Loxjie A30.
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