Topping Mini 300 Amplifier Review

[capslock]

Yeah I don't know what a composite in this instance means, all I see that he gets really good performance doing whatever he's doing, and I also see Topping is getting more or less the same with whatever they're doing which is much better than what others (Fosi, Ayima Douk etc) are doing with their regular PFFB designs.

Composite means wrapping having a fast inner feedback loop around the power amplifier and wrapping the feedback of a precise control amplifier (usually an op amp) around it. The challenge is that the gain of the control amplifier must be rolled off well before the gain hits 1 to avoid oscillations. As class D amps and their output filters are slow, the gain of the control amplifier needs to be rolled off very steeply, e.g. 5th order.

 

[delta76]

Do you mean “If there is an expensive one, why buy a cheap one?”, is it?

Buy a proven one. Or at least from company with track records of reliability and long term support.

Don't buy new toys (DAC, amp, preamp whatever) every year because FOMO and oh, your old toy has broken down and repair is not an option

 

[DVinylfan]

I voted 'great' for the review and the amplifier.
Put this thing in a 30kg matt black box with dangerous fins and Greek lettering and a five figure price tag and listen to the audiophiles say how 'it's actually very good value'.

 

[Haskil]

Buy a proven one. Or at least from company with track records of reliability and long term support.

Don't buy new toys (DAC, amp, preamp whatever) every year because FOMO and oh, your old toy has broken down and repair is not an option

I've had a small Class D amplifier under my TV for five or six years, and I'm eagerly waiting for it to break down so I can buy a more powerful one, but it's holding up perfectly: it still works as well as the day I bought it. I got it for around fifty euros from Audiophonics.

And I also have a Topping DX3 Pro headphone amplifier/DAC that's been on every day since I bought it, about three years ago. It's also still going strong.

 

[somebodyelse]

Given we already have balanced inputs, how difficult world it have been to allow bridged mode?

It's already bridged, using the TPA3251's BTL mode (Bridge Tied Load) like most of these TPA325x based amps. Some use the PBTL mode (Parallel Bridge Tied Load) but that's only really an advantage with unusually low impedance loads - it provides more current, but no more voltage swing.

 

[OldTimer]

Buy a proven one. Or at least from company with track records of reliability and long term support.

Don't buy new toys (DAC, amp, preamp whatever) every year because FOMO and oh, your old toy has broken down and repair is not an option

There are only 2 devices which are SMSL PO100AK as DDC and Fosi Audio V3 as Amp. In the middle of them, there is an old integrated amp as DAC and Pre-Amp with so many digital and analog inputs including phono. Thank God, it’s been 4 years the SMSL is still alive and 3 years the Fosi still running nice and crisp.

Sometimes I forget to turn of the Fosi because I used to ignore switch power off because the old integrated amp power off automatically after no signal in a few minutes. And the SMSL used to fall to the floor quite often because so small after I pull/move my iPad.

Hopefully they won’t broken in 5 years at least, I’m satisfied. I bought both devices after I read this forum, AudioScienceReview.com. You can read my past messages along with photos.

 

[antcollinet]

Their efficiency falls with load according to TI's sheets though and at normal listening levels is directly comparable.

This didn't sound right so I went looking for a specific class AB amp efficiency curve. Couldn't find anything but did find this "generic" comparison which pretty much matches what I believed to be the case. If we take "normal listening levels" to be in the 1 to 5W region, then class D is around 50% (matching TI's data sheet) compared with around 10% for class AB - if this curve is typical.


EDIT - found the third chart from a yamaha amp which pretty much confirms the generic one.

https://thesnowfields.com/manuals/Yamaha%20P2200.pdf

 

[delta76]

I've had a small Class D amplifier under my TV for five or six years, and I'm eagerly waiting for it to break down so I can buy a more powerful one, but it's holding up perfectly: it still works as well as the day I bought it. I got it for around fifty euros from Audiophonics.

And I also have a Topping DX3 Pro headphone amplifier/DAC that's been on every day since I bought it, about three years ago. It's also still going strong.

There are only 2 devices which are SMSL PO100AK as DDC and Fosi Audio V3 as Amp. In the middle of them, there is an old integrated amp as DAC and Pre-Amp with so many digital and analog inputs including phono. Thank God, it’s been 4 years the SMSL is still alive and 3 years the Fosi still running nice and crisp.

Sometimes I forget to turn of the Fosi because I used to ignore switch power off because the old integrated amp power off automatically after no signal in a few minutes. And the SMSL used to fall to the floor quite often because so small after I pull/move my iPad.

Hopefully they won’t broken in 5 years at least, I’m satisfied. I bought both devices after I read this forum, AudioScienceReview.com. You can read my past messages along with photos.

And we can have multiple counter examples of devices failing within months, or bugs that never get fixed. The only thing that should matter is statistics. How many percent failed within first year. How many hiccups and annoyances owners see. Etc.

 

[TNT]

19+20 kHz show

I wish you would have chosen to extend the chart one more step to the left, i.e. include zero to 1k, as 1k is a very interesting frequency for the difference tone and as it presented now, its just on the edge of maybe visibility. Why create a possibility for a doubt?

//

 

[RandomEar]

This didn't sound right so I went looking for a specific class AB amp efficiency curve. Couldn't find anything but did find this "generic" comparison which pretty much matches what I believed to be the case. If we take "normal listening levels" to be in the 1 to 5W region, then class D is around 50% (matching TI's data sheet) compared with around 10% for class AB - if this curve is typical.

I think most people overestimate the typical average power output of their amps. If you listen at 75 dB with a speaker offering an efficiency of 86 dB/(m*W) and sit 3 m away from your speaker, you need 0.11 W of power. In that region, amp effieciency is garbage for all classes and is dominated by idle power consumption. So in the end, that is what counts for the majority of people: Idle consumption.

Mathematically, this is of course also the reason efficiency drops towards zero for small power outputs.

 

[TurtlePaul]

I wish you would have chosen to extend the chart one more step to the left, i.e. include zero to 1k, as 1k is a very interesting frequency for the difference tone and as it presented now, its just on the edge of maybe visibility. Why create a possibility for a doubt?

//

The chart goes all the way down to DC? You can count the spikes at 5k, 4k, 3k, 2k, 1k and DC.

 

[Wickers]

The E50 is objectively perfect, so what is there to wait for in a review of MK2 since the odds of it being less than even more objectively perfect is next to none?

The E50 II is the first DAC that includes the new AK4497S chip. Since this is Asahi Kasei’s latest development (and it also appears together with the amplifier in the demo photos), it might actually be interesting. At least that’s what I think.

 

[Sokel]

This didn't sound right so I went looking for a specific class AB amp efficiency curve. Couldn't find anything but did find this "generic" comparison which pretty much matches what I believed to be the case. If we take "normal listening levels" to be in the 1 to 5W region, then class D is around 50% (matching TI's data sheet) compared with around 10% for class AB - if this curve is typical.


EDIT - found the third chart from a yamaha amp which pretty much confirms the generic one.

https://thesnowfields.com/manuals/Yamaha%20P2200.pdf

View attachment 501482

View attachment 501483

View attachment 501496

The Yamaha results can't be compared as it's a 200W/8 Ohm continuous (or 400w bridged at 16 Ohm! ) so its PSU (no matter if SMPS or linear) alone makes it difficult.
Also, the results are for 120V mains where efficiency is lower (that at higher levels though, example from mine) :

Moreover, we can't blanket classes in general, the best is usually Purifi (as amp modules alone) at all loads and system losses (hence the good reputation of the class)
Of course it wipes the floor with my icepower ones at normal levels (1-5W, correct) where my efficiency is negative (1200as2 eat 30W at idle doing nothing and 0.3W at standby) despite the class.

Key is power, we have to compare similar power abilities to be fair but still, high power ones can be negative, no matter the class.

 

[antcollinet]

1200as2 eat 30W at idle doing

That is 0%, not negative

 

[Sokel]

That is 0%, not negative

As a percentage, correct.
I'm talking electricity bill
5W usefull-25W waste .

 

[trevor_bartram]

I bought a Fosi V3 Stereo (32VDC) a couple of Black Fridays ago for $70 as a backup amp. I tried it out, it sounded fine, so I boxed it up & put it the closet. I believe this Topping Mini 300's performance beats the Fosi?

 

[forart.it]

Glad to own one, anyway rear I/O should be arranged like:

 

[somebodyelse]

started with DACs so the screen isn't blocked when you adjust settings/volume, then carried over to Amps for a consistent look

It started before DACs. When Quad did it with the 34 preamp in '82 it didn't even have a CD input - the first CD player was released the same year. The reasoning was the same though - consistency with the FM4 tuner which had the knob to the right of the display. Others already had the volume knob on the right - Rotel's RA840, Meridian's 101 preamp and probably a load more and earlier.

 

[Haskil]

And we can have multiple counter examples of devices failing within months, or bugs that never get fixed. The only thing that should matter is statistics. How many percent failed within first year. How many hiccups and annoyances owners see. Etc.

We also see this with devices from major brands that have been established for decades: irreparable breakdowns, products not supported, bugs not fixed, endless updates to correct what was damaged in a previous update... and so on and so forth...

 

[TurtlePaul]

The Yamaha results can't be compared as it's a 200W/8 Ohm continuous (or 400w bridged at 16 Ohm! ) so its PSU (no matter if SMPS or linear) alone makes it difficult.
Also, the results are for 120V mains where efficiency is lower (that at higher levels though, example from mine) :

View attachment 501506

One thing to be careful about is comparing total system efficiency to amplifier efficiency. Every practical home amp in the world consists of an AC/DC converter and a DC powered amplifier section. The TPA datasheet and the wikipedia pic above are only amplifier stage efficiency with no assumptions about PSU. That ICE power chart is total system efficiency.

Most class D amps are just shy of 90% efficient and sit behind PSUs that are also just shy of 90%. The total system result is thus typically 75-80% at full load. Class B (& AB) have a 78.5% theoretical maximum (falling to mid-60s with real-world PSU), so most real world class D including PSU are just at or above the theoretical max for linear amps.

Instead of looking at % efficiency at low loads, I would proposed that the most useful metric is “on but idle” power draw measured in watts. Every amp has falling efficency at low loads, but what is really happening is the power usage tends towards idle and isn’t correlated with load at low levels. Then also show amplifier power burn in watts at 50 watts into 4 ohms (wall power - 50) to show loaded behavior.