• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Topping LA90 Review (Integrated Amplifier)

Rate this amplifier:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 35 4.4%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 50 6.2%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 193 24.1%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 524 65.3%

  • Total voters
    802

restorer-john

Grand Contributor
Joined
Mar 1, 2018
Messages
12,579
Likes
38,280
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
Amir seriously needs to completely pull the pin on unqualified Topping review recommendations before reliability/functionality data has flowed in.

To not do so, absolutely obliterates any credibilty he has so desperately attempted to obtain here on ASR, especially when we see product after product failing the most basic of tests in the real world.

We have Topping gear with only one function button that doesn't work...:facepalm:

Everyone was warned by those of us with more than a few years out of university, and stars in their eyes.
 

voodooless

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 16, 2020
Messages
10,225
Likes
17,801
Location
Netherlands
Damn, there really is a gap between their engeneering and their build consistency we can see it through a wide range of their products on the whole forum as users give their feedbacks.
I doubt these issues are related to production consistency. Rather it’s an engineering and design problem. The focus here clearly is objectively performance. Reliability seems to be a secondary concern.
 

restorer-john

Grand Contributor
Joined
Mar 1, 2018
Messages
12,579
Likes
38,280
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
I doubt these issues are related to production consistency. Rather it’s an engineering and design problem. The focus here clearly is objectively performance. Reliability seems to be a secondary concern.

Objective performance includes reliability and functionality.

Who cares if your car does 0-60 in 2.1 seconds if it explodes the second time you drive to the corner store to buy some milk?
 

Talisman

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 27, 2022
Messages
897
Likes
2,546
Location
Milano Italy
I do not know if this problem is real and on a large scale, but if it were, the sinad values should not be considered, you cannot compare a Lamborghini with a dragster, the Lamborghini runs thousands of km, turns in curves, brakes etc.
The dragster just takes a shot and melts the engine. Should we say that the dragster is a better car?
 

Tusoli5

Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Messages
15
Likes
31
Amir often states that he can't assure long term reliability in his testings. He only show measurements of their functions.
On this he is pretty clear.

The unit he tested didn't show any flaws while in use so he can't advocate for or against its reliability with other users that deal with issues. One doesn't make the rules by itself.

Muchmore, a company can take a stand and speak about its consistency when they are confident or not to advertise it enough to be true. If they don't, there is a reason for a predicted delta of bad products they accepted to deal with, within their ingeneering, build problems.
 
Last edited:

jjmanda

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2020
Messages
79
Likes
120
I got a response from Topping through the retailer (Aoshida Audio). They recommended I update the firmware and provided a link to the new file. The update went smoothly, but did nothing to resolve the issue. A return was initiated, now I'm out return shipping + duties/taxes for a defective product. Lesson learned.
Topping sent me a firmware update to try out too.
Now where is that USB type C cable? One didn't come with the LA90 package and I don't seem to have one.

I'll let you know if the firmware works as soon as I go to Best Buy and get a USB type C cable.
 

Billy Budapest

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 11, 2019
Messages
1,810
Likes
2,674
I just changed my vote to “poor” based on the reports of units failing within a few days of purchase. Topping needs to trace the root cause asap.
 

sarumbear

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
7,604
Likes
7,314
Location
UK
Reading between the failure reports it seems to me there is software issue, possibly not caused by an electronic part failure.
 

restorer-john

Grand Contributor
Joined
Mar 1, 2018
Messages
12,579
Likes
38,280
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
Reading between the failure reports it seems to me there is software issue, possibly not caused by an electronic part failure.

Software, firmware, electronic component failure, poor design, it really doesn't matter. The products is/are failing in numbers a week or two after release. It's just not ready. I'd go back to the drawing board before the brand and what little reputation it has, is wiped out completely.
 

Dj7675

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 12, 2019
Messages
2,116
Likes
2,781
Topping marketing completely botched up the pricing. LA90 should have been priced $400-500 range. The SINAD 120 should have been something to build upon. And again I feel if a PA90 is in works, it should be <$600 mono blocks.

That’s my opinion. This way topping continue with the disruptions. (Just continuing for a wishful thinking…..so younger generations take up to this hobby : price/performance)
It is always interesting to me when people comment on product pricing and what it should be... There are a lot of variables when it comes to pricing. One is cost... this includes R&D, parts, manufacturing, advertising etc etc as well as quantity of items sold. As consumers, we can certainly evaluate if a product is worth buying at a given price or not, but to say it “should have been priced in the $400-$500 price range seems a bit pointless to me.
We on the outside have no idea what kinds of costs are associated with the design/building of this product, in particular in a post COVID world. In the end it is what it is and the marketplace will decide. Remember companies build things to make a profit and there isn’t anything wrong with that.
What we have here won’t appeal to everyone (nothing does). But we have SOTA performance within its limits. In the end, as prices get higher, things like durability, longevity, warranty, support, and features become more and more important.
 

sarumbear

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
7,604
Likes
7,314
Location
UK

VMAT4

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 25, 2018
Messages
937
Likes
743
Location
South Central Pennsylvania
Damn, there really is a gap between their engeneering and their build consistency we can see it through a wide range of their products on the whole forum as users give their feedbacks.
An audiophile component should be able to work several days/weeks /years under different loads without starting to show any problems. It should take years until its power buttons/ leds/ screens /power show any faulty situation.

Going for 800 to 1000$ price range when they were around 350$ (maximum on their whole products a few years ago) really starts to scream this kind of attention to their build quality.
This is also needed by their high level of engeneering and for the clients market they are aiming. They have to match their achievements through their build quality.
A strong reliability of the product is highly important just after its achievement to be able to enjoy its use for me to be able to buy it.
Otherwise it is pointless and trust in their company/products crumbles down no matter what their measurements quality can be.

How do you consider this side of their whole products? Are you ok with it anyway? How could topping show us that they can give a bettter reliability in their next products that will ensure us to enjoy their achievements?

This may be a bigger problem. Under the Chinese model, wouldn't numerous brands be manufactured at the same factory? So, could we posit
that we should see this reliability issue across the board on similar electronics coming out of Shen Zhen Province? And is that the case? Pretty much?
I don't know but I've not had any problems with my Topping equipment.
 

Slayer

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Mar 3, 2021
Messages
583
Likes
859
things like durability, longevity, warranty, support, and features become more and more important.
Some if not most, might say, it's the most important.
But we have SOTA performance within its limits.
Yes, but this to some, should be the secondary factor for purchasing an audio component
but to say it “should have been priced in the $400-$500 price range seems a bit pointless to me.
I can understand the sentiment in this statement. However, as consumers, many if not most of our purchases are made by deciding if the product's value is on par with price to performance ration when compared to other products in the market.
Give me a product that performs rather well, (maybe not tops of SINAD chart) that has a reputation for longevity, build quality and support, and you will have me as a customer.
Remember companies build things to make a profit and there isn’t anything wrong with that.
Absolutely correct. But when it becomes obvious that said companies are more worried about hitting certain numbers on a test chart, churning out knew products with just the slightest variations to impress consumers vs quality control and making sure you have a product that be considered reliable. Then this is where you have a problem with said companies.
There also seems to be a trend with certain companies (won't mention which, since most of us are already aware of) where reps are quick to jump in and join discussions when the product is being reviewed and has favored well in testing. Yet as soon as issues begin to arise, they scurry off without a peep, rarely to be heard of again until they release another knew product with great SINAD numbers.

It's easy for companies to start out strong, but without product reliability, they won't be around long.
 

Enkay25

Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
96
Likes
89
It is always interesting to me when people comment on product pricing and what it should be... There are a lot of variables when it comes to pricing. One is cost... this includes R&D, parts, manufacturing, advertising etc etc as well as quantity of items sold. As consumers, we can certainly evaluate if a product is worth buying at a given price or not, but to say it “should have been priced in the $400-$500 price range seems a bit pointless to me.
We on the outside have no idea what kinds of costs are associated with the design/building of this product, in particular in a post COVID world. In the end it is what it is and the marketplace will decide. Remember companies build things to make a profit and there isn’t anything wrong with that.
What we have here won’t appeal to everyone (nothing does). But we have SOTA performance within its limits. In the end, as prices get higher, things like durability, longevity, warranty, support, and features become more and more important.
I totally agree with that line of thought. And yes that’s always the rationale behind every company.

But let’s see: what could have been the response to LA90 if it was priced $499? (The PA5 costs $349)
When I say this, I have also considered the pricing and performance history of Topping and its products….and how it earned more pricing power due to the ‘SINAD’ performance. The contextual background is also how I referenced this price considering the offerings from Topping competitors (or perhaps sister companies of major ODMs) like SMSL, SABAJ, Loxjie, Gustard etc.
 

amper42

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 21, 2020
Messages
1,582
Likes
2,284
Software, firmware, electronic component failure, poor design, it really doesn't matter. The products is/are failing in numbers a week or two after release. It's just not ready. I'd go back to the drawing board before the brand and what little reputation it has, is wiped out completely.

Topping has never had the engineering gift of reliability or vision on how to make all parts of each device work equally well. It's more about getting the next product out, beating the SINAD number and pushing forward. Rotation of product releases is the company's vision of success. For me reliability, compatibility and function are just as important as SINAD and in some cases more. There's no need to buy from a company with product reliability issues.

Topping should be providing free shipping on warranty repairs. At least for the first year. There is no reason a customer should be responsible for return shipping in this situation. It's bad enough when products aren't well tested before release. It's worse when customers are guiena pigs and bear warranty shipping costs.
 
Last edited:

mocenigo

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 8, 2018
Messages
1,274
Likes
1,034
Topping has never had the engineering gift of reliability or vision on how to make all parts of each device work equally well. It's more about getting the next product out, beating the SINAD number and pushing forward. Rotation of product releases is the company's vision of success. For me reliability, compatibility and function are just as important as SINAD and in some cases more. There's no need to buy from a company with product reliability issues.

Topping should be providing free shipping on warranty repairs. At least for the first year. There is no reason a customer should be responsible for return shipping in this situation. It's bad enough when products aren't well tested before release. It's worse when customers are guiena pigs and bear warranty shipping costs.

In the case of the L30 they responded quite well. They do care about their reputation, so if there a problem, I am confident they will find a reasonable solution.
 

dmc

Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2022
Messages
5
Likes
59
Topping LA90 First Impressions Followup...

I mentioned in my earlier review that the amplifier is a "little deaf". I run the LA90 in LOW input gain mode, which gets a 12db noise floor improvement over HIGH gain. (It's all unhearable anyway...) The A90 and my MOTU Ultralite AVB have more than enough output level to drive the LA90 in LOW mode to as high an SPL as I can tolerate. The Podcaster has lower output levels, but is only used for intelligible rather than immersive sound, so I don't need the high gain in that case.

Finally sorted out the subwoofer send. I was somehow picking up hum by feeding both reduced level speaker outputs into the same stereo line isolation transformer enclosure (which has two transformers inside). Using two mono transformers in separate enclosures eliminated the hum. I also switched to using the Klipsch wireless subwoofer interface, but while that reduced the hum, it did not eliminate it. So now both sides of the speaker outputs are isolated (not connected to ground or each other), and the sub is silent except when called upon. Note that the amplifier itself has no ground reference other than what comes in on the XLRs, as the power supply has a 2-wire AC plug.

Someone asked about quiescent power consumption: Using an electrician's meter (Fluke T5-1000) , I measured 0 amps in standby, and .1 amps turned on but quiet, at 121 volts 60 Hz. That means actual consumption is 0 - .1 amps in standby, and .1 to .2 amps turned on but quiet.

At the risk of invoking some failure demon, my LA90 is just fine, thank you, after 5 days of continuous power on, and a bunch of hacking around the speaker terminals. And Jeez, people, if you don't like the price just don't buy one.

cheers,
dmc
 
Top Bottom