Topping LA90 Review (Integrated Amplifier)

[Billy Budapest]

Last time I tried to do this, I blew up an amplifier

That’s called the “John Atkinson effect.” LOL. Although he has a track record of destroying equipment under test.

 

[amirm]

Only complaint would be weird connectors???

FYI those connectors are actually quite flexible. You can use either XLR or 1/4 inch plugs.

 

[DDF]

I don’t think anyone denies that the “race” to decrease noise and distortion surpassed audibility ages ago. However, the pursuit of perfection is human nature (or perhaps a human failure). Advancing the state of the art wherein manufacturers are held to measurable scientific criteria is a more worthy goal than ripping off consumers with snake oil that can only be evaluated on the basis of pseudoscience and magic.

Speakers contribute the most distortion to the audio playback chain but not the most noise. Most people find noise more objectionable than distortion. While distortion can be rationalized as “coloration,” there are no positive attributes to noise. It’s just garbage.

To your first point, that's really a false comparison. High SINAD is also a more worthy goal than sleeping naked in the snow. The point is that manufacturers perfecting excess SINAD while giving insufficient focus on reliability and product testing before release (as evidenced by user feedback here), are not doing the customer a service. This is on topic due to the trend for overly tight packaging (heat) reflected in the LA90 and noted failures with the other amp.
To your second point, speakers do contribute audible noise as rub and buzz, and it typically well exceeds electronic noise. See Klippel, MLSSA incoherency index etc. It takes an active signal to produce it. The far more prevalent electronic noise is due to ground loops and leakage currents, not electronic self noise, and there is no evidence manufacturers are improving designs to be resilient against that, and its not tested here either.

 

[amirm]

Sorry if I should know the answer, but is there a measurement of instantaneous peak output (for transients) when playing at a "normal" output level (e.g., something like 1W)? That seems to be a recurring concern for people given the amplifier's moderate output rating, and I don't see that it is ever addressed.

I provide the burst power rating for that reason. That is the power rating on the right:

 

[DesertHawk]

Isn't the dollar pretty strong against the Euro these days? Maybe not such a bad time for Apollon or Audiophonics for those in the US.

LOL. Maybe. I haven't checked. It's been a long time since I have even thought about traveling to Europe. That said, if I was getting a purifi or Hypex, I'd start with Buckeye.

 

[amirm]

The point is that manufacturers perfecting excess SINAD while giving insufficient focus on reliability and product testing before release (as evidenced by user feedback here), are not doing the customer a service.

There is no data to back "insufficient focus on reliability and testing" in this product. You all need to stop speculating this way. Maybe it is reliable. Maybe not. You get to talk about that when there are enough samples and data out there. Not now.

 

[AudioArchitech]

I can but we need to standardize on what that means. Last time I tried to do this, I blew up an amplifier that had no such track record in actual use in that manner.

Cool, let's figure out a standard. With the PA5, I think just leaving it on for a while is all it would take How about commenting on your PA5? Is it still working good?

 

[amirm]

Also, I searched like crazy but am not able to find the link again, I recently read an article about shabby power connections in amps being this way by design, cannot reproduce the technical motivations, sorry.

??? The power terminal is of the screw kind which is quite secure. I am not seeing this as any weakness.

BTW, the power supply never got warmer than room temp in all of my testing.

 

[amirm]

Cool, let's figure out a standard. With the PA5, I think just leaving it on for a while is all it would take How about commenting on your PA5? Is it still working good?

Yes, it is working perfectly although I don't use it full time. I pull it out for specific testing of other products (like the power regens).

 

[AudioArchitech]

Maybe leave it on for around 60 days and see if yours develops the dreaded static noise...

 

[Billy Budapest]

To your second point, speakers do contribute audible noise as rub and buzz, and it typically well exceeds electronic noise.

If you are talking about mechanical noise from a speaker—like an out of spec spider causing a voice coil to rub—that’s an entirely different phenomenon. It’s not noise you hear emanating from the diaphragm reproducing music, but instead from the pistonic action of the voice coil rubbing. In other words, it’s extraneous to the signal.

As far as “buzz” from a speaker, if certain speaker topologies use transformers, then it’s possible vibrations between the laminations can cause hum, but again, that is mechanical noise. Again, extraneous to the diaphragm reproducing the signal.

 

[amirm]

Maybe leave it on for around 60 days and see if yours develops the dreaded static noise...

That kind of testing goes beyond the scope of what I have room for, or can easily accommodate.

 

[Talisman]

There is no data to back "insufficient focus on reliability and testing" in this product. You all need to stop speculating this way. Maybe it is reliable. Maybe not. You get to talk about that when there are enough samples and data out there. Not now.

This is generally true of any new release, however, given the problems, acknowledged by Topping (I refer to answers given to owners with the problem on a left channel, found in the pa5 thread) with a product that had aroused similar enthusiasm a few months ago, and considering the cost of this amplifier which is more than double the pa5, the doubts about the reliability I think are legitimate. This is already an important cost for an amplifier, it is no longer the boxes like A07 that if they break after three months are thrown away with a light heart.

 

[DesertHawk]

For anyone complaing.
1st. Purify unit with nice preamp will cost double of that so why you crying when its not fair comparison?
2nd. Just, because its no use for your case. Move on and buy Audiophonics purify, not everything is made for your majesty.
P.S why I have to pay double for Purify + Preamp for worse performance when my room is small or my listening setup is desk!?
Only complaint would be weird connectors???

I don't want to speak for everyone but I think it's a question of ideal amp use and price point. At this price, I think it's fair to compare to purifi and Hypex builds. You say worse performance but minimally worse (and possibly not audibly worse). And it's not exactly fair to say you have to spend alot on a preamp. Depending on your application, your dac might be all the preamp you need and you might need/want that dac regardless.

The counter argument would be to say there are no amps in this power range that can provide near the quality for significantly less cost. I think people would argue that you can find amps in this power range that are less expensive and whose quality differences wouldn't be audible. Frankly, I don't know and don't really care. If I needed a amp of this size, la90 would be the first I look at. If I need (want) more power then first would be purifi or Hypex.

And no one is making you pay double.

 

[amirm]

This is generally true of any new release, however, given the problems, acknowledged by Topping (I refer to answers given to owners with the problem on a left channel, found in the pa5 thread) with a product that had aroused similar enthusiasm a few months ago, and considering the cost of this amplifier which is more than double the pa5, the doubts about the reliability I think are legitimate. This is already an important cost for an amplifier, it is no longer the boxes like A07 that if they break after three months are thrown away with a light heart.

I don't know how it is legitimate to already raise concerns on a completely different amplifier and design. A generic concern of that kind is fine which should just translate into waiting to buy. Not asserting that there is reliability issue for sure as the poster did. Even for PA5 we don't know what the failure rate is relative to the total sales of the product.

 

[DDF]

I don't know how it is legitimate to already raise concerns on a completely different amplifier and design. A generic concern of that kind is fine which should just translate into waiting to buy. Not asserting that there is reliability issue for sure as the poster did. Even for PA5 we don't know what the failure rate is relative to the total sales of the product.

I stated this product had a risk due to its very tight packaging and Topping's trend for insufficient testing as evidenced in other products reviewed here. I find when people start putting words in my mouth, the discussion is not in good faith, so I'm bowing out.

 

[muslhead]

This is generally true of any new release, however, given the problems, acknowledged by Topping (I refer to answers given to owners with the problem on a left channel, found in the pa5 thread) with a product that had aroused similar enthusiasm a few months ago, and considering the cost of this amplifier which is more than double the pa5, the doubts about the reliability I think are legitimate. This is already an important cost for an amplifier, it is no longer the boxes like A07 that if they break after three months are thrown away with a light heart.

i see, its guilty until proven innocent. Got it

 

[Deleted member 46664]

My crazy uncle Zado used to race cars. One day lamenting the crappy performance of my company car I asked him how he got so much power out of his engines and ended up winning races ... his answer: "It only has to last for a quarter mile". Of course my car had to take me all over southern Ontario and still get me home for supper. It was a lesson in reliability that's pretty hard to ignore and to this day I still value reliable, stable equipment over the latest golly gee whiz blinky thing on the market.

Unfortunately after a rather disappointing time with a Topping DAC and now the PA5 mess going on in other threads... Topping itself has a big question mark behind it's name. Here is the LA90 another breakthrough product... but is it like the PA5, designed for the quarter mile at the expense of reliability?

"Topping?" what the heck?

It's wonderful that you've gained two of the top four slots in Amir's picket fence ... but at what cost?
Will people still be using your products in 10 years?

 

[renaudrenaud]

Discussed about the amp with my wife. She told me we don't care a lot this one, the important fact is Topping is able to produce this kind of amplifier and it's a proof of great engineering. And me wife is always right.

 

[HiFidFan]

I don't get those that claim this amp for desktop use case.

For $800 one can get (2) Kali IN-8s with 140w of tri-amped power. Lots of other active speaker options for $800 or less/pair. For a couple hundred more, step up to Dynaudio etc.