Topping LA90 Review (Integrated Amplifier)

[Mike_Trueman]

To bring this particular topic to a fitting conclusion, I'd like to point out a very dirty and obscene American joke involving peanut butter and jam. The joke only works in English and is easy to find on Google .

Back to the pinned LA90 review...

Yeah pinned! that is what i wanted to say... but my English is not that good

 

[Sal1950]

Yeah pinned! that is what i wanted to say... but my English is not that good

No problem, lots of forum software refer to it as Sticky.

 

[krsnik02.abel]

I love those data based reviews! No audiophile voodoo mambo jumbo!

You check for multi tone distortions which should represent quality of outgoing sound.

I have a beginner question. If you have two amplifiers with the noise / distortion level below hearing level, will they objectively sound the same if all other system components are the same?

 

[staticV3]

I have a beginner question. If you have two amplifiers with the noise / distortion level below hearing level, will they objectively sound the same if all other system components are the same?

Besides noise and harmonic distortion, other aspects exist that can affect sound audibly.

For example: frequency response, crosstalk, phase response.

Though if two Amps measure below the audibility threshold across a thorough set of tests, and both are used within their intended operating range (not pushed into clipping), then they will be indistinguishable to the ear.

 

[krsnik02.abel]

People say that this amplifier sounds this way and other that way. Do I understand correctly that these differences are basically faulty errors in processing (distortions, frequency response, crosstalk, phase response etc) or are these distortions done on purpose to promote some type of sounding?

 

[staticV3]

People say that this amplifier sounds this way and other that way. Do I understand correctly that these differences are basically faulty errors in processing (distortions, frequency response, crosstalk, phase response etc) or are these distortions done on purpose to promote some type of sounding?

When people say that, in 9/10 cases there are no actual differences and what they perceived was caused by a slight difference in playback level and/or a variety of cognitive biases like expectation bias, sunk cost fallacy etc.

For a fair and meaningful comparison, it is absolutely vital that A: both Amps are precisely level-matched using a voltmeter and B: the person is unaware which Amp is currently playing.

 

[krsnik02.abel]

So basically if you make sure both good amps output same volume then they would sound the same?

 

[staticV3]

So basically if you make sure both good amps output same volume then they would sound the same?

Yes.

If two Amps are audibly different even in a controlled test, then at least one of them has a design flaw.

It's not an Amp's job to impart its own sound onto your music.

 

[somebodyelse]

If two Amps are audibly different even in a controlled test, then at least one of them has a design flaw.

Or at least one is being operated outside their limitations, usually for power output or load impedance. Sensitivity to variations in load impedance is arguably either a design flaw or a limitation. These days we mostly see it in Class D amps that don't have post-filter feedback, but it's also why low damping factor used to be an issue, usually with valve/tube amps. The effect is to give peaks or dips in frequency response with loads that have significant load impedance variations over the frequency range.

 

[Sal1950]

I love those data based reviews! No audiophile voodoo mambo jumbo!

You check for multi tone distortions which should represent quality of outgoing sound.

I have a beginner question. If you have two amplifiers with the noise / distortion level below hearing level, will they objectively sound the same if all other system components are the same?

Here's a good one,

"In controlled double-blind listening tests, no one has ever (yes, ever!) heard a difference between two amplifiers with high input impedance, low output impedance, flat response, low distortion, and low noise, when operated at precisely matched levels (±0.1 dB) and not clipped."
Peter Aczel (https://www.biline.ca/audio_critic/critic1.htm)

Check out the whole link.

 

[krsnik02.abel]

Here's a good one,

"In controlled double-blind listening tests, no one has ever (yes, ever!) heard a difference between two amplifiers with high input impedance, low output impedance, flat response, low distortion, and low noise, when operated at precisely matched levels (±0.1 dB) and not clipped."
Peter Aczel (https://www.biline.ca/audio_critic/critic1.htm)

Check out the whole link.

Love it, would be better if they added links to those blind tests not just state

 

[Sal1950]

Love it, would be better if they added links to those blind tests not just state

Well Peter passed away in 2017 so I can't ask him
But I don't know of anyone that has come forward to prove him wrong..

 

[krsnik02.abel]

Well Peter passed away in 2017 so I can't ask him
But I don't know of anyone that has come forward to prove him wrong..

It should be the other way around… If you state something you need to prove not someone disprove.

Anyone has sources for such blind tests of amplifiers???

Btw I just found some Atoll DAĆ and Hegel H95 reviews here… I’m so disappointed that these old European brands that value themselves so much are stuck 20-30 years back with the designs. But since no one was checking so they could produce bad products and sell on the myths… they are all going down…

I wish I found this page before I made my first purchases. Good thing that at some point I moved to buying only used ones as I understood ill be changing.

 

[somebodyelse]

Anyone has sources for such blind tests of amplifiers???

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-files-recorded-for-download-disclosed.25646/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/catalogue-of-blind-tests.8675/

 

[Sal1950]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-files-recorded-for-download-disclosed.25646/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/catalogue-of-blind-tests.8675/

Really good stuff there, thanks for putting up the links.

 

[Sal1950]

Btw I just found some Atoll DAĆ and Hegel H95 reviews here… I’m so disappointed that these old European brands that value themselves so much are stuck 20-30 years back with the designs. But since no one was checking so they could produce bad products and sell on the myths… they are all going down…

That's what happens when "no one was checking".

 

[mocenigo]

Btw I just found some Atoll DAĆ and Hegel H95 reviews here… I’m so disappointed that these old European brands that value themselves so much are stuck 20-30 years back with the designs. But since no one was checking so they could produce bad products and sell on the myths… they are all going down…

If a product sells, you do not change it. You make perhaps a SE version, or you update something and give it a new name, but why reengineer it if this does not have an immediate impact on sales? This is the business version of “if it ain’t broken, don’t fix it.”

At some point this stops working though. When Amir retires, I think somebody else will have to pick up the job. Measurements — as in a complete (or maybe complete-ish?) set of measurements, not a single data point – are making many audiophiles reconsider what they actually need.