Topping L30 II Review (Headphone Amp)

[MC_RME]

For example, WolfX-700 told measuring more than about 95 dB requires a low-noise amplifier:

Amir acknowledged the possibility of higher numbers through a low-noise amplifier when reviewing Pre90, but the method was not changed to keep consistency.

Yep, the AP can only measure around -118 dBu, which is around -94 dB at 50 mV. -118 dBu is the self noise of the analog input of around 1µV, and the APs are specced like that. So without additional preamp or changes in the measurement setup I am not aware of how to measure -100 dB.

 

[oscar_dziki]

They just killed the market. WOW. Shut up and take my money!!!

 

[oscar_dziki]

60Hz from the AC ps i guess a switch mode ps would rise the price. If you can hear it pls let me know (;-)

Nothing, that BS Audio power regenerator wouldn't fix

 

[Stokdoof]

Time for a new analyser i guess for future products..

 

[jasonhanjk]

Low gain is worse than medium gain. Overall is a very good (spec) product.

 

[Stokdoof]

Great implementation of the Headphone chip TI TPA6120A2. No reason to go discrete any more. Well done @JohnYang1997 .

Yes indeed to the analog designers of the chips and the teams around them used in the great measuring products deserve a little more credits, I think. Now it sometimes looks like the Topping design team does all the work but in fact a lot of work is done designing the integrated circuits.

 

[Feargal]

I'd be interested what the power consumption is, especially in the "off" position (if any).

 

[audiofun]

The 100db 50mv SNR looks like an error.

You can clearly see from power-performance graph that is not the case.

Without noise amplification Ap cannot go that high

 

[BR52]

Yes indeed to the analog designers of the chips and the teams around them used in the great measuring products deserve a little more credits, I think. Now it sometimes looks like the Topping design team does all the work but in fact a lot of work is done designing the integrated circuits.

You are right. Specially if you read the TI application notes !!

 

[JohnYang1997]

Low gain is worse than medium gain. Overall is a very good (spec) product.

Low gain is measured worse here because the volume position is set at maximum. This is OK as a test but in real world use you wouldn't do that as you would switch to higher gain settings already.

The reason for the higher noise is because when the pot is set a maximum the noise is set by the high attenuation resistor and the high value of pot. When you use at say less than 12 o'clock the noise will be largely diminished to 1/4th or lower. And that's also why the noise floor is the same when the pot is set to nil for both low and mid gain settings.

 

[Carlo2AC]

I was really excited on the specs, that amount of distortion free power inside that little box is amazing!
But that channel imbalance makes it a no to me unfortunately

 

[Atanasi]

The reason for the higher noise is because when the pot is set a maximum the noise is set by the high attenuation resistor and the high value of pot. When you use at say less than 12 o'clock the noise will be largely diminished to 1/4th or lower. And that's also why the noise floor is the same when the pot is set to nil for both low and mid gain settings.

What is the difference between the pot and the gain switch? They both set resistor values and gains add up, don't they?

 

[JohnYang1997]

What is the difference between the pot and the gain switch? They both set resistor values and gains add up, don't they?

The high gain sets the gain for the amplifier circuit. The mid gain essentially has no extra attenuation and no extra gain in the amplifier circuit. Low gain has an extra attenuation resistor to attenuate the signal before the amplifier circuit.

 

[Jimster480]

Resistor ladder volume control, for one! And more inputs/outputs, EXT90 Input Extension option, ..

Resistor Ladder Volume control is amazing honestly. I don't have an A90 but it was one of the reasons I was interested in it. Volume control is PERFECT basically. Really cool stuff.

 

[Jimster480]

Measured performance is rarely the issue with Topping and obviously this is unsurprisingly excellent. I think the real test will be build quality and reliability over time, hopefully this has moved closer to the impressive measurements! Great achievement either way even if there is little real world consequence/use of the improved performance.

I said it in the other thread and I will say it here. My Topping stuff is literally ~5+ years old (DX7 5 years old in 3 weeks, D30/A30 5 years 4 months old) and nothing has any issues or failures. Other than the USB on the DX7 (which is my fault and not Topping). The OLED screen on the DX7 isn't as bright as it once was but that is OLED tech and not Topping... have no complaints after 5 years of almost daily listening.... I would say over 10000 hours listening on the DX7. Still kicking ass and taking names. Cleaner than all the DAPs, Audiophile phones and most every other device that has crossed my desk in the past 5 years (with the exception of the D50/D50S) .
The D30 has been driving my HiVi Swan M10 and it does a great job of that! Pretty sure I can't hear a better DAC on those speakers anyway (or most speakers to set the record straight). My A30 has seen the least usage of the 3 units... and I sold my 2nd A30. The one I have now unfortunately has a chinese PSU and requires a step-up converter to use it.
No complaints here.
Friends who have bought Topping devices also haven't had any issues. Also years of listening without a problem.

 

[Jimster480]

So I could buy these, come up with a silly name, stick it in a case with sharp edges, lots of screws, and silly controls and sell them for $14k?

Let's make a new company. Maybe call it LOWING instead and we just take Topping stuff and put it in "witchcraft" cases and sell for 14k and then make youtube videos about the extensive designs lmfao

 

[Jimster480]

This is great to see. Thanks so much for all you do!

Quick question re: hard-to-drive headphones like the Stealth: If you can get them to play through an amp to the volume you like to listen to, are you necessarily hearing the best the phones have to offer? Is it possible to reach comfortable listening volume and still be missing bass response or other characteristics of the sonic picture? Trying to figure out if I need to buy one of these to upgrade my HD800 experience. Thanks again!

Definitely. You will hear more highs and not enough lows if you don't have enough current. So you can feel like it "drives them" but really its not hitting its real performance capabilities.

 

[Jimster480]

Topping needs to produce a streamer (oled display please), dac, headphone amp, pre amp xlr outs (for my active speaker) roon ready/airplay/Bluetooth all in one with best in class measurements, I’d certainly be interested. As small as possible, nice remote control and a user gui that is the equal of my iPhone

Don’t want much do I?

Isn't that part of what the M50 is supposed to be?

 

[BR52]

Isn't that part of what the M50 is supposed to be?

More like Matrix m2 or x2 I guess. Price.......

 

[TK750]

I said it in the other thread and I will say it here. My Topping stuff is literally ~5+ years old (DX7 5 years old in 3 weeks, D30/A30 5 years 4 months old) and nothing has any issues or failures. Other than the USB on the DX7 (which is my fault and not Topping). The OLED screen on the DX7 isn't as bright as it once was but that is OLED tech and not Topping... have no complaints after 5 years of almost daily listening.... I would say over 10000 hours listening on the DX7. Still kicking ass and taking names. Cleaner than all the DAPs, Audiophile phones and most every other device that has crossed my desk in the past 5 years (with the exception of the D50/D50S) .
The D30 has been driving my HiVi Swan M10 and it does a great job of that! Pretty sure I can't hear a better DAC on those speakers anyway (or most speakers to set the record straight). My A30 has seen the least usage of the 3 units... and I sold my 2nd A30. The one I have now unfortunately has a chinese PSU and requires a step-up converter to use it.
No complaints here.
Friends who have bought Topping devices also haven't had any issues. Also years of listening without a problem.

I don't doubt you and this is why it's so hard to get an accurate representation of. Obviously people are more likely to report on things going wrong than if everything is working fine. Also if you sell a lot more devices than other companies you are going to get a lot more reports (don't know but I would imagine Topping are probably one of the top selling brands, at least in the budget market). On the other hand there has been the widely reported PA5 issues, but how widespread are they really? As well as the original L30 problems. It's difficult to really get an accurate picture without knowing exactly how many are sold and returned and comparing to other manufacturers, which is not something I would expect Topping or others to disclose.

A lot of this impression is based on the number of anecdotes of failure one runs into on their various trawls around forums and audio sites on the internet. Not to mention if you type into google '(x brand) problems' I'm sure you'll find a lot of results for more or less every manufacturer of anything. This is probably not very accurate, but on the other hand if you keep on seeing a certain brand/product appearing and not others it's fairly natural to form some sort of opinion, regardless of how accurate it may be and whether one has considered other contributing factors.