Topping L30 II Review (Headphone Amp)

[shuppatsu]

I have the L30 II and have zero complaints. It's also been around for long enough without significant complaints that it is likely to be reliable--something that cannot be said for many Topping amplifiers!

If I were in the market I'd probably go for the Atom 2 this time around. Less power but both have more than enough for anything not esoteric. Made in the USA, and with perhaps the finest reputation for customer support in the industry. As opposed to Topping, which shipping costs make support uneconomical if you don't live in China.

Another option is paying an extra $20 for the L50. Slightly more powerful and less potential for ground loops if you have a DAC with balanced output.

 

[askrilla]

Just got a L30 II that I'm feeding a Focusrite 2i2 3rd gen into via headphone output. The sound quality however is worse than without the amp, direct into headphone out (more muddy, less sound stage), which doesn't make sense given the massive increase in power. I'm waiting on another TRS->RCA cable in case that's the issue, but any other potential reasons I'm getting these results?

 

[ButHowDoesItSound?]

Just got a L30 II that I'm feeding a Focusrite 2i2 3rd gen into via headphone output.

You're double amplifying. You have to use the line outputs, not the headphone output.

 

[Lambo1985]

Just got a L30 II that I'm feeding a Focusrite 2i2 3rd gen into via headphone output. The sound quality however is worse than without the amp, direct into headphone out (more muddy, less sound stage), which doesn't make sense given the massive increase in power. I'm waiting on another TRS->RCA cable in case that's the issue, but any other potential reasons I'm getting these results?

If you are using the line outputs of your 2i2 to connect to active monitors/speakers, the L50 would be the headphone amp you'd want to get. The L50 has both RCA & TRS passive passthrough outputs. You would connect the 2i2 line outs, balanced TRS, to the L50. Then, you'd connect the L50 passthrough outputs to your speakers. When the L50 is off, the signal would be routed from your 2i2 to your speakers.

 

[staticV3]

Just got a L30 II that I'm feeding a Focusrite 2i2 3rd gen into via headphone output. The sound quality however is worse than without the amp, direct into headphone out (more muddy, less sound stage), which doesn't make sense given the massive increase in power. I'm waiting on another TRS->RCA cable in case that's the issue, but any other potential reasons I'm getting these results?

Do not connect balanced Line out (XLR/TRS) to RCA, as this will result in increased noise, distortion, and DC offset from your 2i2:

Need Help Choosing Compact Computer Speakers

because after the speakers the screen monitors start (the screen monitors above them). Another possibility is to place the speakers above the monitor, using a VESA arm or a mic arm. That's what I would do, although it kinda restricts your speaker choice to ones who have VESA mount points or...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[fws]

You're double amplifying. You have to use the line outputs, not the headphone output.

Imo double amping should not cause such an issue. While not optimal, it usually is fine if both gain stages are clean and output level doesn't exceed input sensitivity. Further more, 2i2 3rd gen maxes out around 1Vrms from Headphone Out, so I'm not even sold if that could pass as double amping as there probably is no considerable amp stage (no idea, but whatever buffer/driver there is, could it be the specific issue?).

 

[askrilla]

If you are using the line outputs of your 2i2 to connect to active monitors/speakers, the L50 would be the headphone amp you'd want to get. The L50 has both RCA & TRS passive passthrough outputs. You would connect the 2i2 line outs, balanced TRS, to the L50. Then, you'd connect the L50 passthrough outputs to your speakers. When the L50 is off, the signal would be routed from your 2i2 to your speakers.

View attachment 511414

Do not connect balanced Line out (XLR/TRS) to RCA, as this will result in increased noise, distortion, and DC offset from your 2i2:

Need Help Choosing Compact Computer Speakers

because after the speakers the screen monitors start (the screen monitors above them). Another possibility is to place the speakers above the monitor, using a VESA arm or a mic arm. That's what I would do, although it kinda restricts your speaker choice to ones who have VESA mount points or...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Thank you for the responses. Seems like the issue then is probably the TRS to RCA. I will be be giving one last try today with a different headphone out cable (TRS to dual rca) and also line out (dual TRS to dual rca to check double amping issue) just to ensure that this is the case, but will likely get the L50 for the balanced in/out.

Another solution would be to replace the 2i2 with a Topping E2x2. I only need to drive Arya Organics, so is the amp overkill?

 

[staticV3]

Another solution would be to replace the 2i2 with a Topping E2x2. I only need to drive Arya Organics, so is the amp overkill?

Most likely yes.

 

[Roland68]

Thank you for the responses. Seems like the issue then is probably the TRS to RCA. I will be be giving one last try today with a different headphone out cable (TRS to dual rca) and also line out (dual TRS to dual rca to check double amping issue) just to ensure that this is the case, but will likely get the L50 for the balanced in/out.

Another solution would be to replace the 2i2 with a Topping E2x2. I only need to drive Arya Organics, so is the amp overkill?

You could also go a different route and get an SMSL D1 or SU-1 DAC for the L30 II.
In terms of sound, that's already an endgame combination; after that, you'd only really need more power, which is only necessary for a few headphones.
The D1 fits perfectly on the L30 II and only requires very short RCA cables (10-20cm).

 

[askrilla]

Most likely yes.

As in the headphone out power from the 2i2 is sufficient? Or the E2x2 would be? I know the 2i2 headphone out is quite weak at 27mW at 32 ohms, and Arya Organics are easy to drive, but I was getting conflicting info on power demands of planars even if volume was fine.

You could also go a different route and get an SMSL D1 or SU-1 DAC for the L30 II.
In terms of sound, that's already an endgame combination; after that, you'd only really need more power, which is only necessary for a few headphones.
The D1 fits perfectly on the L30 II and only requires very short RCA cables (10-20cm).

Unfortunately I need a setup with an audio interface as I produce music and don't want to switch audio devices in Ableton for recording vs. playback. I was thinking about just getting a standalone DAC/amp combo but the L30 II seemed like the cleaner solution to avoid switching devices and utilize my existing interface... at least I thought it was.

 

[staticV3]

As in the headphone out power from the 2i2 is sufficient? Or the E2x2 would be?

The latter.

 

[Jimster480]

As in the headphone out power from the 2i2 is sufficient? Or the E2x2 would be? I know the 2i2 headphone out is quite weak at 27mW at 32 ohms, and Arya Organics are easy to drive, but I was getting conflicting info on power demands of planars even if volume was fine.



Unfortunately I need a setup with an audio interface as I produce music and don't want to switch audio devices in Ableton for recording vs. playback. I was thinking about just getting a standalone DAC/amp combo but the L30 II seemed like the cleaner solution to avoid switching devices and utilize my existing interface... at least I thought it was.

But every software should have an option for input device and output device. All of my systems run in this manner. And once you set it, then it's set forever.

 

[Lambo1985]

Thank you for the responses. Seems like the issue then is probably the TRS to RCA. I will be be giving one last try today with a different headphone out cable (TRS to dual rca) and also line out (dual TRS to dual rca to check double amping issue) just to ensure that this is the case, but will likely get the L50 for the balanced in/out.

Another solution would be to replace the 2i2 with a Topping E2x2. I only need to drive Arya Organics, so is the amp overkill?

I have both the L30 II & the 2i2 3rd gen. I experimented with your set up to see if I got similar results. I did. Even when halving the volume pot on the 2i2 headphone amp. The L30 II just sounds worse. So, its not the cable that's the issue.

Since you use the 2i2 as an audio interface (as I thought) for producing music, the L50 is your best bet.

 

[askrilla]

But every software should have an option for input device and output device. All of my systems run in this manner. And once you set it, then it's set forever.

My concern with setting different input and output devices was latency as well as if I am playing along to a track, the timing could be off. But if it's negligible, maybe a DAC/amp combo output would be best to complement the interface.

I have both the L30 II & the 2i2 3rd gen. I experimented with your set up to see if I got similar results. I did. Even when halving the volume pot on the 2i2 headphone amp. The L30 II just sounds worse. So, its not the cable that's the issue.

Since you use the 2i2 as an audio interface (as I thought) for producing music, the L50 is your best bet.

Appreciate you testing this out. Out of curiosity, did you try the line out as well? I'm waiting for the cables to arrive to try myself this evening. Regardless though, even if I find that the line outs sound better, I would then run into the second issue of my studio monitors not being able to connect to the L30 II correct (RCA output to TRS/XLR input)?

I'm guessing the L50 should eliminate any balance issues that are degrading the sound because it's TRS to TRS rather than TRS to dual RCA (or dual TRS to dual RCA with the line outs). Or could the interface itself just not be playing nice with Topping's amplifier, and I either need to replace it with the E2x2 and call it a day, or combo it with a DAC/amp?

 

[Lambo1985]

Appreciate you testing this out. Out of curiosity, did you try the line out as well? I'm waiting for the cables to arrive to try myself this evening. Regardless though, even if I find that the line outs sound better, I would then run into the second issue of my studio monitors not being able to connect to the L30 II correct (RCA output to TRS/XLR input)?

I'm guessing the L50 should eliminate any balance issues that are degrading the sound because it's TRS to TRS rather than TRS to dual RCA (or dual TRS to dual RCA with the line outs). Or could the interface itself just not be playing nice with Topping's amplifier, and I either need to replace it with the E2x2 and call it a day, or combo it with a DAC/amp?

I tried connecting the 2i2 to the L30 II with unbalanced mono TS to RCA, and its works as it should. Sounds better/cleaner than phones connected to the 2i2 HP out. As staticv3 mentioned, you don't want to use TRS to RCA for an unbalanced connection. You want to use unbalanced mono TS to RCA (or RCA to RCA, with RCA to TS adapters on one end to connect to 1/4 outputs/inputs). Because of its design and functionality, I would use an L50 with an audio interface if I needed a separate HP amp. Not the L30 II.

If you are happy with the 2i2 performance as an interface with your computer & daw, and just need a more powerful HP amp, then you don't need a new audio interface. Just a HP amp. Getting a new audio interface to solve just a HP amp problem, introduces more points to consider. For example, round trip latency numbers are worse for the E2x2 than the 3rd gen 2i2, and that would be one of my main considerations when it comes to an audio interface (I need less than 5ms, or else I feel it when recording. YMMV).

As for getting a separate DAC/Amp combo, that would be annoying and impractical. You'd have to switch between the 2i2 and dac/amp in your daw. You'd have to use one or the other, exclusively. However, if you had an interface with digital outs (coax or optical), then it makes sense. Because then you could connect your interface to the DAC/AMP, and leave your audio interface operating, as is, for input & tracking, and use the dac/amp for monitoring (with the benefit of keeping the interface RTL). The 2i2 does not have a coax or optical out.

 

[askrilla]

I tried connecting the 2i2 to the L30 II with unbalanced mono TS to RCA, and its works as it should. Sounds better/cleaner than phones connected to the 2i2 HP out. As staticv3 mentioned, you don't want to use TRS to RCA for an unbalanced connection. You want to use unbalanced mono TS to RCA (or RCA to RCA, with RCA to TS adapters on one end to connect to 1/4 outputs/inputs). Because of its design and functionality, I would use an L50 with an audio interface if I needed a separate HP amp. Not the L30 II.

If you are happy with the 2i2 performance as an interface with your computer & daw, and just need a more powerful HP amp, then you don't need a new audio interface. Just a HP amp. Getting a new audio interface to solve just a HP amp problem, introduces more points to consider. For example, round trip latency numbers are worse for the E2x2 than the 3rd gen 2i2, and that would be one of my main considerations when it comes to an audio interface (I need less than 5ms, or else I feel it when recording. YMMV).

As for getting a separate DAC/Amp combo, that would be annoying and impractical. You'd have to switch between the 2i2 and dac/amp in your daw. You'd have to use one or the other, exclusively. However, if you had an interface with digital outs (coax or optical), then it makes sense. Because then you could connect your interface to the DAC/AMP, and leave your audio interface operating, as is, for input & tracking, and use the dac/amp for monitoring (with the benefit of keeping the interface RTL). The 2i2 does not have a coax or optical out.

View attachment 511508

Thank you this is super clear and helpful.

I've also tried now on my end, but I still think the phones directly into HP out sounds the best. Line out using TS RCA cable into the L30 II is better than HP out TRS to dual RCA with amp, but no amp still dominates. Not sure if I just don't have the ear for this, but directly into HP out no amp sounds the clearest to me with no issues, and there aren't better dynamics, wider sound stage, deeper bass, or anything with the amp, which is making me second guess even getting an amp in the first place. Would using a TS to RCA neuter things that much vs. TRS to TRS?

Definitely going to be returning the L30 II unfortunately and will try out an L50, but I'm a bit skeptical now. I know there's the constant debate of what is enough, e.g. is sufficient volume enough, or do you need more current/power, but also amps coloring or not coloring sound, so trying to figure out where I stand in all this. Agree with you separate DAC/amp potential headache, but was hoping to hear anecdotes of it being a smoother process than I thought it would be. And finally re just getting an interface, I think it is a good one shot solution, but to your point, I didn't realize the latency difference would be that significant.

 

[Lambo1985]

Thank you this is super clear and helpful.

I've also tried now on my end, but I still think the phones directly into HP out sounds the best. Line out using TS RCA cable into the L30 II is better than HP out TRS to dual RCA with amp, but no amp still dominates. Not sure if I just don't have the ear for this, but directly into HP out no amp sounds the clearest to me with no issues, and there aren't better dynamics, wider sound stage, deeper bass, or anything with the amp, which is making me second guess even getting an amp in the first place. Would using a TS to RCA neuter things that much vs. TRS to TRS?

Definitely going to be returning the L30 II unfortunately and will try out an L50, but I'm a bit skeptical now. I know there's the constant debate of what is enough, e.g. is sufficient volume enough, or do you need more current/power, but also amps coloring or not coloring sound, so trying to figure out where I stand in all this. Agree with you separate DAC/amp potential headache, but was hoping to hear anecdotes of it being a smoother process than I thought it would be. And finally re just getting an interface, I think it is a good one shot solution, but to your point, I didn't realize the latency difference would be that significant.

Either you need a HP amp, or you don't. If you don't hear an improvement with the L30 II, and don't need the extra clean power for more volume in your phones, then you don't need an extra HP amp. The L50 sounds exactly like the L30 II, and these are some of the most clean/transparent/powerful HP amps available. With the L50, you'll have a better, pro audio connection with balanced TRS cables and passthrough for your speakers, but that's about all you'll notice. A different/better DAC may improve things a tiny bit, but I'm not sure you'd even notice the difference with a different DAC. You also have to take your headphones into account. Depending on how they synergise with your dac & amp, and how much detail your ears are able to extract from them, this also makes a difference. I have Arya Stealth's but I never use them for music production or critical listening (I rarely use them at all, actually). However, I do know that my Stealths sound better to me when I use them with a Ifi Zen Can amp (as opposed to a L30/L50) and that's because that amp has a bit of crosstalk & distortion that makes the headphones more pleasant to listen to, and here at ASR, crosstalk & distortion in an amp could be considered lousy performance. Maybe different headphones is what you need. It really does depend on what you are trying to achieve.

 

[Ahmonge]

Not sure if I just don't have the ear for this, but directly into HP out no amp sounds the clearest to me with no issues, and there aren't better dynamics, wider sound stage, deeper bass, or anything with the amp

It seems that you dpn't need a headphone amplifier. In my opinion, if you want to improve the sound, spend your money on buying better headphones.

 

[fws]

I've also tried now on my end, but I still think the phones directly into HP out sounds the best.

Just a thought, but have you tested L30 II with anything else than your 2i2? To see if the unit you have actually works properly (and if it is, if there is an improvement for the headphones).

 

[askrilla]

It seems that you dpn't need a headphone amplifier. In my opinion, if you want to improve the sound, spend your money on buying better headphones.

I am very happy with the headphones already - just trying to ensure I wasn’t leaving any performance on the table due to the HP out power.

Just a thought, but have you tested L30 II with anything else than your 2i2? To see if the unit you have actually works properly (and if it is, if there is an improvement for the headphones).

I was thinking about this, but unfortunately don’t have any other equipment. Have decided to try out the L50 and if that doesn’t improve anything, no amplifier will be fine for me. FWIW, I had someone blind test and they agreed that HP out directly was better than line out with amplifier - they described the former as much clearer which I agree with.

It’s just fascinating that an amp would make the sound worse so maybe you’re onto something and the unit was just bad or the 2i2 just doesn’t play nice with going to RCA/unbalanced outputs. At worst I would’ve expected equivalent performance, but the slightly worse sound is what’s confusing here.