Gotcha, I can continue to sit back and enjoy the music, now free of the "I wonder if"
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Topping L30 II Review (Headphone Amp)
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Not having any other equipment for comparison it was simply an unknown coupled with blissful ignorance and the desire to explore. I am now content I can ignore any upgrades for some time.
As mentioned, apparently your headphones simply do not require an extra power the L30 II is providing.
The amp remains transparent in this case. The output clarity of JM20 is 112dB SiNAD at 2Vrms, the output clarity of SU-1 is 116dB SiNAD at 2Vrms. I don't think you will find a person here who would claim to hear the difference of 4dB SiNAD, at least not in 110+ range, although to be fair, you won't be reaching 2Vrms, and JM20 won't output it to HE400se anyway.
I mean, either that or you need a graphene coated brass cable raisers
No difference in sound quality can be expected.
Both pairings are great choices, as far as the reliability is o.k.
Are there any polls? Reliability issues with these devices?
At least some Topping Power amps have not the best score here.
I would definitely spend the extra $20 to get an L50 over the L30 II, just to have the stack have the same width dimensions as the E50.
The real question for me is whether the E50/L50 combo is worth the extra $120 over the E30 II Lite/L30 II combo. Personally, I don't think so, but I think it depends on your priorities and for some people it will definitely be worth it to have a balanced connection between DAC and amp and an AES/EBU single-ended connector if you have or plan to get a corresponding cable.
Having both the E30 II and E50, the E50 is a more resolving DAC than the E30 II/E30 II Lite, and a more enjoyable listen.
About the headphone amp, I don't personally have the L50, but I do have the L30 II - I believe the L50 it's essentially the same thing as the L30 II, but missing the lowest gain setting (-14dB?). Oh, and 50 also has a balanced input (not important).
I have quite a range of things from Topping - right now they're my amplifiers, headphone amplifiers, and DACs. I had a couple other DACs from other companies, one broke and I gave one away.
I don't know how trained your ear is, how picky you are, and which headphones you're going to use/if you plan to upgrade them (and how far), but I will recommend this:
If you're planning on using this stack for a bit and then upgrading later, I'd suggest foregoing the L50/L30 II for the L70 headphone amplifier immediately, to go with the E50. Though the sound quality/character between all three is almost exactly the same, the L70 has a relay switched resistor network volume control vs. the pots in the 50/30. Yes, testing has been done on device balance over their range of volume settings, and generally the pots are pretty good. But they do, in fact, vary. When listening through higher end headphones from companies that try to match the frequency response and balance between the L/R drivers, this overall small difference (from the potentiometer), is the threshold from listening and thinking "nothing wrong with this!" and stepping up to "this is amazing!!"
I think the L70 is about $140 USD more than the L50 - it's worth it.
If you absolutely can't swing the extra cash, I'd suggest getting the L30 II with the E50. Yeah, they're different sizes unfortunately, buuuut....
What you can do with the L30 II to bring it up really really really close to the L70 in the balance department, which you can't do with the E50 is this:
For your listening, you adjust the L30 II's gain setting to the lowest possible for the level you want. Then you turn the volume up all the way and use the E50 in preamp mode to cut the level to your desired volume level.
In my experience, as long as you raise the L30 II's pot to maximum level, its balance becomes nearly identical to the L70's
Sure, you'll lose some dynamic range and SNR, but the E50 has that to spare. Having the above equipment, and having done the above (including a variation with an even better source), that's my recommendation and why.
Someone is goi
Fair warning: I’m going to rehash the standard ASR response for all of this. I’ll be brief about it since you’ve probably seen it all before.
Amir measured both. They measure almost identically, other than a little more harmonic distortion -125dB down and a touch more jitter, again down > -120dB. S/N, IMD, broadband distortion are all the same.
Is it your contention that artifacts 120dB below the signal cause this worse resolution, or do you believe that measurements don’t tell the whole story? And of course, do you have level matched blind tests, or how do you account for sighted bias in your comparisons?
Citation needed. At any rate I tend to have the pot at max volume and control with the digital volume knob on my computer. To my ears this is indistinguishable from using the pot directly.
…ng to challenge me on these assertions, aren’t they?
raif71
Major Contributor
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Appreciate your subjective tests. I myself have L30/L30II/L50 and they are all basically unused and their respective boxes except for the L50 which will get a play from time to time. I prefer instead using the Asgard 3.
I'm more concerned with the THD+N vs Frequency graphs for the E30ii and E50
E30II - "Good" according to Amir . Also Amir about E30ii THD+N vs F "Not state of the art but still very good."
E50 - "Extermely low" according to Amir.
Am I interpreting this correctly? :
While this is Amir's personal interpretation, it's clear that transparency varies from person to person, and others may interpret it differently. I would love to have two DACs and run blind tests, but I suppose neither I nor anyone else has the time or willingness to do that.
Anyway, just to be on the safe side, I ordered the E50 and L50.
Quick question: Is it good idea if I pair my SMSL RAW MDA 1 DAC with Topping L50 headphone amp? I’m planning to test them together, as I’ve found that the MDA1 has an excellent DAC when pairing my studio speaker monitors, while the headphone amp could be better for my taste.
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solderdude
Grand Contributor
Amir said nothing about transparency.
The E50 simply has better signal fidelity and both DACs can easily be considered transparent.
Sure.
That said... the SMSL already has a more than capable headphone amp in it so there is no need for an L50 and won't be 'better' with the L50.
A question could be which headphones you want to drive with it.
Note: this all has nothing to do with the L30-II though.
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If we lived in the same city I'd invite you over and I'm sure we'd have a lot of fun.
I was actually more kind to the E30 II than I would have been if I was...unfiltered. But I was (and always am) filtered, trying to avoid drama while still communicating my thoughts (we are all filtered to varying degrees and to different extents in our many environments- it's normal). Anyway, I communicated E50 > E30 II. And I stand by that statement: it is.
I can't always explain why I can tell the difference in sound characteristic between two amplifiers or DACs. But when I can tell the difference, I can tell the difference. Some gear can have an issue which presents itself only in certain circumstances, and other gear can be so bad it makes whatever you're trying to play, totally its own.
I'm too tired to write an essay on abstract ideas this morning. If you were in my city I'd invite you live to see me blind select the E30 II, E50, and D90 III Sabre.
My estimated odds after time:
After 3 minutes with the 3 DACs, probably 85% I'd have identified all 3 correctly.
After 10 minutes with them, 97%. And after a day with my library I'd bet 3 months salary.
Also fun info you might not know - an excellent recording isn't necessary to discern DAC/amp differences. Watching a variety of people talk on YouTube can be VERY informative (in its own way - the ear needs training). Distortion on the voice can be helpful too - maybe the distortion is a complex set of harmonics or the harmonics are all louder than they'd usually be in natural sounds. Basically hearing the difference of the distortion. Anyway, you probably believe nothing of this so I'm going to stop lol
Earwax
Active Member
I bought this L30 ii and paired it with the E30 ii Dual dac chip.
The above image says it all. Wow serious purity and current combo...
I'll do a listening test using the SU1 DAC that has only 1 dac chip and report back if it is even in comparing of the above mentioned impressions.
From Amirm's measurement data to me it does sound like it is just as it is rated,... far above the rest of the headphones amps measured on this forum.
To be clear I have not listened to every headphone amp only a handful combo DAC headphone amps of the ones above the middle area.
Topping DX1 & DX3 pro plus, SMSL D100, SMSL D12.
SMSL D10, Fosi Audio DS1 & DS2.
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Hi guys -- forgive me if this is a dumb question, but would the L30 ii be a good match with MOTU M4, UltraLite Mk5, and/or RME BabyFace Pro FS to get a better/second headphone amp for critical listening?
It seems like a no brainer $150 with great specs, but I haven't read the entire thread to see if there are issues.
I would connect to outputs on the audio interfaces to get second headphone amp when I'm away from the studio. (Studio equipment is RME UFX III BTW, I'm satisfied with headphone amp there.)
If not, what headphone amp do you recommend for 300 Ohm headphones (Sennheiser HD600/650/6XX) connected to the above audio interfaces?
It seems like a no brainer $150 with great specs, but I haven't read the entire thread to see if there are issues.
I would connect to outputs on the audio interfaces to get second headphone amp when I'm away from the studio. (Studio equipment is RME UFX III BTW, I'm satisfied with headphone amp there.)
If not, what headphone amp do you recommend for 300 Ohm headphones (Sennheiser HD600/650/6XX) connected to the above audio interfaces?
Whatever you connect it to, L30 II does the job as long as you don't overdrive it. Meaning you won't fed it a signal way above 2Vrms. There is no rocket science beyond this really. It is actually fairly decent at connecting sources below 2Vrms, because its max output of 13Vrms is a bit of an overkill compared to say Atom Amps which are 9Vrms (4.5Vrms per 1Vrms), not to mention the original L30 which had 9Vrms output, but at 3Vrms input (3Vrms per 1Vrms).
I use HD600 myself, the current production grey/gunmetal one, and I generally find it maxed out at around 6-7Vrms. I have developed a taste for running it off $30 Douk U3 which has 7.2Vrms on tap, whereas running the headphone out of 5Vrms Creative G6, or Douk U3 limited to 4.5Vrms (fed from 1.25Vrms source), was not as fun. The increased output power of L30 II does not make any particular change, but there is a difference in treble between those 2 amps (L30 II is smoother, yet better extended, this could be explained by a slight roll off in U3 if it was combined with increased high frequency distorion content I guess).
My only ever qualm with L30 II is it always runs warm, even when there is no signal present. Likewise you can feel some warmth off PSU even when L30 II is turned off.
Roland68
Major Contributor
The L30/II and L50 are powered by a simple external AC transformer without any additional electronics, not a power supply. Therefore, the devices are always connected to the mains.
The switch only turns off the control and outputs, not the internal power supply section and the actual HPA. A switchable socket/strip can be used for this.
What is this libelous tort?! My L30 II is white-hot with rage! His adapter's hottest spot is only 20.6C above ambient... hahahaha
My main headphones right now, HD 650s are 250 ohms so they don't draw too much current, and even at their loudest I don't think I drive them to more than 100mW/ch (RMS)
It doesn't sound like you're saying it gets hot though, just that it is hot. Constantly. You didn't say "hot", outright, but you did say "warm" - I'm thinking how "warm" does something have to be, to be "annoying"?
jcarys
Active Member
I have both the original E30/L30 and the E50/L50. I bought the second set because I wanted them for another system, not that I had any issues with the first.
I can tell absolutely no difference between the two DACs. I think the L50 is a bit better than its predecessor, just because it can handle slightly more needy headphones. I would have preferred if it was truly balanced, and had all three output connectors, so I may eventually make another change. Let's see how the DX5 II tests when it's finally released. One box would also fit my workstation a bit nicer.
I can tell absolutely no difference between the two DACs. I think the L50 is a bit better than its predecessor, just because it can handle slightly more needy headphones. I would have preferred if it was truly balanced, and had all three output connectors, so I may eventually make another change. Let's see how the DX5 II tests when it's finally released. One box would also fit my workstation a bit nicer.
Interesting... I have the E50 and E30 II. I definitely prefer the E50 over the E30 II - the 30 is just extremely fatiguing to me... Maybe the old E30 was better than its successor!
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