Topping L30 Headphone Amplifier Review

[Deleted member 27758]

All of this “synergy” stuff is a lot of wasted time and money in my opinion. Use a transparent DAC/amp and EQ the cans to your liking. You’ll save yourself some major headaches in the long run.

I can't totally agree here, L30/E30 was praised as very transparent combo, but it just doesn't play well or gives enough juice for certain headphones. You can play around with EQ to kill annoying peaks, but it kills the goodness of utopia as well. With planar the big difference was in bass, less impactful/loose with quicker roll-off, better amping brought tight/well extended bass. With EQ we could increase the amount of bass(which as well altered the rest of the frequencies negatively), but quality of it was still poor.

Now the main thing why it got my attention as on paper L30 blows Luxman p1u out of the water, but that was far from truth in real life scenario. This led to an interesting discussion on my local forum where guys are basically saying that test are being done on dummy loads to play in favor for their specs, while headphones are very different and can play in less favorable way or even point out to amplifier issues.

I'm not a technical guy and I dumped my rumblings based purely on listening which in my scenario failed with Utopias and few other cans. There is even a thread on SBAF where they performed tests with real headphones which may/may not confirm my listening experience.

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/oh-shit-sinad-can-suck-my-s.11175

Either way I'm happy that I've decided to test Utopias with different gear as I was regretting my purchase, though my wallet will be crying soon. If you are happy with L30 stick with it, I'll keep mine as a backup most likely. Music should be a priority and for that you actually do not need much

 

[shoto]

Hi

I would also like to ask about the SBAF thread for Topping L30.

I have same issue with L30 and my planar magnetic headphones lacking in the bass, I dont know how to describe it, less control? I dont know if it's imagined or not but it is very easy to notice.
I have used a speaker amplifier with these planar headphones also and bass is much better, the problem with this amplifier is quiet hissing noise.
I stayed using L30 because I thought it was distortion from speaker amplifier causing a difference, with recent SBAF thread on L30 could there be a real problem with L30 that does not show in normal testing?

 

[USER]

I just want to say to all the SBAF folks joining us in this thead: welcome! I am glad you are engaging with us and asking good questions and are curious enough to see what we say. I look forward to more of this in the future.

 

[THW]

I can't totally agree here, L30/E30 was praised as very transparent combo, but it just doesn't play well or gives enough juice for certain headphones. You can play around with EQ to kill annoying peaks, but it kills the goodness of utopia as well. With planar the big difference was in bass, less impactful/loose with quicker roll-off, better amping brought tight/well extended bass. With EQ we could increase the amount of bass(which as well altered the rest of the frequencies negatively), but quality of it was still poor.

Now the main thing why it got my attention as on paper L30 blows Luxman p1u out of the water, but that was far from truth in real life scenario. This led to an interesting discussion on my local forum where guys are basically saying that test are being done on dummy loads to play in favor for their specs, while headphones are very different and can play in less favorable way or even point out to amplifier issues.

I'm not a technical guy and I dumped my rumblings based purely on listening which in my scenario failed with Utopias and few other cans. There is even a thread on SBAF where they performed tests with real headphones which may/may not confirm my listening experience.

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/oh-shit-sinad-can-suck-my-s.11175

Either way I'm happy that I've decided to test Utopias with different gear as I was regretting my purchase, though my wallet will be crying soon. If you are happy with L30 stick with it, I'll keep mine as a backup most likely. Music should be a priority and for that you actually do not need much

My question is why are you expecting the amplifier to be anything other than wire with gain? IMO if it changes the sound it is a fail. And yes the FR measurements of the Audezes I have seen indicate that they don’t sound good out of the box and generally have a sucked out 2-5 kHz region

If I were you I would treat SBAF with a massive grain of salt, weren’t they the ones who made the claim that the HD 650 can basically scale to infinity (a ridiculous claim if you apply even a semblance of logic to it)?

This is also assuming you are actually hearing what you claim to be hearing.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I can't totally agree here, L30/E30 was praised as very transparent combo, but it just doesn't play well or gives enough juice for certain headphones. You can play around with EQ to kill annoying peaks, but it kills the goodness of utopia as well. With planar the big difference was in bass, less impactful/loose with quicker roll-off, better amping brought tight/well extended bass. With EQ we could increase the amount of bass(which as well altered the rest of the frequencies negatively), but quality of it was still poor.

Now the main thing why it got my attention as on paper L30 blows Luxman p1u out of the water, but that was far from truth in real life scenario. This led to an interesting discussion on my local forum where guys are basically saying that test are being done on dummy loads to play in favor for their specs, while headphones are very different and can play in less favorable way or even point out to amplifier issues.

I'm not a technical guy and I dumped my rumblings based purely on listening which in my scenario failed with Utopias and few other cans. There is even a thread on SBAF where they performed tests with real headphones which may/may not confirm my listening experience.

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/oh-shit-sinad-can-suck-my-s.11175

Either way I'm happy that I've decided to test Utopias with different gear as I was regretting my purchase, though my wallet will be crying soon. If you are happy with L30 stick with it, I'll keep mine as a backup most likely. Music should be a priority and for that you actually do not need much

Hi. Hopefully we can get this peacefully.
The issue is the test setup. The measurements point, the cables, the connectors, the load all can have profound effect on the matter.
It's apparent that the connectors are different. XLR has separated left right return/cold signal.
By simply twisting the 6.35mm plug, it's possible to replicate the faulty channel he's measuring. Instead of looking for possible caveats and places to improve test setup, he immediately think L30 must be broken and must be crap.

One needs something like this to split the cable to the load and the cable to AP. So the sensing point is directly at the output. Adding 10cm of cabling or measuring at a different point will give much worse result.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Hi

I would also like to ask about the SBAF thread for Topping L30.

I have same issue with L30 and my planar magnetic headphones lacking in the bass, I dont know how to describe it, less control? I dont know if it's imagined or not but it is very easy to notice.
I have used a speaker amplifier with these planar headphones also and bass is much better, the problem with this amplifier is quiet hissing noise.
I stayed using L30 because I thought it was distortion from speaker amplifier causing a difference, with recent SBAF thread on L30 could there be a real problem with L30 that does not show in normal testing?

The measurements done on SBAF is with poor test setup. Please refer to my last post. It takes some know how to do measurements correctly.

 

[JohnYang1997]

With proper setup, you certainly can reach these results.

 

[shoto]

Is this with a 32 ohm headphone or dummy resistor?

 

[JohnYang1997]

Is this with a 32 ohm headphone or dummy resistor?

Dummy resistor. But 32ohm headphone will measure the same before headphone is severely clipping. The issue is the voltage division caused by added cabling as output impedance and the nonlinearities of the load. By proper test setup this should be eliminated.

 

[faheem]

My question is why are you expecting the amplifier to be anything other than wire with gain? IMO if it changes the sound it is a fail. And yes the FR measurements of the Audezes I have seen indicate that they don’t sound good out of the box and generally have a sucked out 2-5 kHz region

If I were you I would treat SBAF with a massive grain of salt, weren’t they the ones who made the claim that the HD 650 can basically scale to infinity (a ridiculous claim if you apply even a semblance of logic to it)?

This is also assuming you are actually hearing what you claim to be hearing.

Yeah Sbaf are special. They have 3 obsessions HD650, Schitt and Amir.

 

[ReaderZ]

My question is why are you expecting the amplifier to be anything other than wire with gain? IMO if it changes the sound it is a fail. And yes the FR measurements of the Audezes I have seen indicate that they don’t sound good out of the box and generally have a sucked out 2-5 kHz region

If I were you I would treat SBAF with a massive grain of salt, weren’t they the ones who made the claim that the HD 650 can basically scale to infinity (a ridiculous claim if you apply even a semblance of logic to it)?

This is also assuming you are actually hearing what you claim to be hearing.

Because we are talking about headphone amps and they have volume pot!

 

[virtua]

I wouldn't be surprised if most people who are experiencing a lack of bass or harshness with the L30 came from amplifiers which have a higher output impedance, which can affect the damping factor and tilt a headphones frequency response towards the bass.

 

[Pdxwayne]

I wouldn't be surprised if most people who are experiencing a lack of bass or harshness with the L30 came from amplifiers which have a higher output impedance, which can affect the damping factor and tilt a headphones frequency response towards the bass.

I have L30 and indeed I found that both my headphones (previous one was Philips Fidelio X2HR, current one AKG K371) have the tilt towards harshness and lack of bass.

At least for stereo amp and speakers, there is an article describing the possibility of tilt toward treble:
https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/ap...KwHM2ZqkqRlb7LVNrQNXnHOC2-OKx3nRoCMagQAvD_BwE

@JohnYang1997, do you have the L30's "damping factor vs freq" chart available?

Thanks!

 

[JohnYang1997]

I have L30 and indeed I found that both my headphones (previous one was Philips Fidelio X2HR, current one AKG K371) have the tilt towards harshness and lack of bass punch.

At least for stereo amp and speakers, there is an article describing the possibility of tilt toward treble:
https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/ap...KwHM2ZqkqRlb7LVNrQNXnHOC2-OKx3nRoCMagQAvD_BwE

@JohnYang1997, do you have the L30's "damping factor vs freq" chart available?

Thanks!

The real world measured output impedance is flat at 0.06Ohm including connector impedance. Use this number to divide 32ohm, 50ohm etc you get the damping factor.
It's actually the opposite, higher output impedance usually leads to higher relative response at f0 in the bass frequency. You can add eq to taste.

 

[solderdude]

do you have the L30 damping factor vs freq chart available?

You are probably referring to the noise made by the SBAF guru who actually made the HUGE discovery that the L30 has an output resistance of around 0.1 ohm.
When I calculate the back EMF of the Grado and use an output resistance of around 0.1 ohm (most likely the measurement guru has a plug + socket in there to tap the signal from, correlates exactly (within a few dB) from the measured 'increased distortion' values by the all discovering measurement guru.
Case solved. b.t.w. @JohnPM (of REW fame) already hinted the great leader towards the reason. Voltage division due to the driver producing back EMF and its impedance v.s. output R.

 

[virtua]

The real world measured output impedance is flat at 0.06Ohm including connector impedance. Use this number to divide 32ohm, 50ohm etc you get the damping factor.
It's actually the opposite, higher output impedance usually leads to higher relative response at f0 in the bass frequency. You can add eq to taste.

Yeah, this is what I was getting at with my comment before - I think a lot of people might just be used to amplifiers which have a higher output impedance - which might be raising sub-bass regions as a function of the lower damping factor which changes the overall frequency response balance, then coming to the L30 which has an ideal output impedance (very low) they are shocked to hear what their headphones are actually supposed to sound like in ideal conditions.

So they might see it as harsher high frequencies or lacking bass, but in reality that's how the headphone is supposed to sound, whereas before it sounded tilted more towards bass but actually it was a function of the poor damping factor.

Better to just use EQ to preference.

 

[JohnYang1997]

View attachment 139246

There's some cable resistance in it. But yeah still around 0.1Ohm.

 

[Pdxwayne]

There's some cable resistance in it. But yeah still around 0.1Ohm.

Do we need to care about the cable resistance of the cable from L30 to headphones?

 

[THW]

Yeah, this is what I was getting at with my comment before - I think a lot of people might just be used to amplifiers which have a higher output impedance - which might be raising sub-bass regions as a function of the lower damping factor which changes the overall frequency response balance, then coming to the L30 which has an ideal output impedance (very low) they are shocked to hear what their headphones are actually supposed to sound like in ideal conditions.

So they might see it as harsher high frequencies or lacking bass, but in reality that's how the headphone is supposed to sound, whereas before it sounded tilted more towards bass but actually it was a function of the poor damping factor.

Better to just use EQ to preference.

i also like knowing that when something does not sound good, I can safely say any fault with my system is out of the question and I can rightfully throw out bad source material and find better music or get better headphones.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Do we need to care about the cable resistance of the cable from L30 to headphones?

In the real world. You just don't want to care too much. I would say it doesn't matter too much although the technically it's affecting performance. But at the end of the day distortion of transducer is much higher. For IEMs with wonky impedance curve, it can be an issue. For high impedance headphones it shouldn't be an issue. Although in 2019 I did blind test different cables with Stellia which has extreme impedance bump in the low frequency, most of the others are not anywhere close to this.

Add a bit of eq and it should be all fine.