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Topping L30 Headphone Amplifier Review

solderdude

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You are thinking correctly about the issue. I am not sure why Topping would go for an "odd-ball" AC power supply - this is not what I would want to purchase myself.

I have already explained why Topping (John) used an AC adapter.

Audiophools shiver when they see the word SMPS and believe linear PS is better.
John uses a linear power supply in the cheap L30 and then folks start to wonder why. :)
 
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hmscott

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I find swapping AC for DC power supplies in consumer electronics a regressive technology, as everything I see moving forward will be using DC. Not only low voltage DC, but also Ultra High Voltage DC.

IDK if we will see DC replace AC sockets in the house any time soon, but we are working in that direction, I plug in almost as many LV DC cables as AC cables these days. And, most of those AC cables are to power DC power supplies that would be more efficiently served powered directly by DC.

9 Reasons Why DC May Replace AC

Perhaps I am a bit biased, considering the work of replacing AC in Datacenters has been progressing nicely:

DC Data Centers: A Necessary Paradigm Shift for Sustainability and Savings
https://www.connectorsupplier.com/d...aradigm-shift-for-sustainability-and-savings/

Data Center Power: How AC and DC Power are Used in Data Centers
https://www.datacenters.com/news/data-center-power-how-ac-and-dc-power-are-used-in-data-centers

The progress in the rest of the world has been slower, but if everyone has DC outlets in their homes, we wouldn't need power lumps in every iPhone box!

Hey, wait a minute... ;)
 
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Vini darko

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I find swapping AC for DC power supplies in consumer electronics a regressive technology, as everything I see moving forward will be using DC. Not only low voltage DC, but also Ultra High Voltage DC.

IDK if we will see DC replace AC sockets in the house any time soon, but we are working in that direction, I plug in almost as many LV DC cables as AC cables these days.

9 Reasons Why DC May Replace AC

Perhaps I am a bit biased, considering the work of replacing AC in Datacenters has been progressing nicely:

DC Data Centers: A Necessary Paradigm Shift for Sustainability and Savings
https://www.connectorsupplier.com/d...aradigm-shift-for-sustainability-and-savings/

The progress in the rest of the world has been slower, but if everyone has DC outlets in their homes, we wouldn't need power lumps in every iPhone box!

Hey, wait a minute... ;)
Hasn't dc transmition been tried? If remember rightly it's crap for nation-wide application. And you'd need a hundered different plugs for all the voltages devices use or be back to needing lumps for voltage conversion.
 

Robin L

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Hasn't dc transmition been tried? If remember rightly it's crap for nation-wide application. And you'd need a hundered different plugs for all the voltages devices use or be back to needing lumps for voltage conversion.
On the other hand, solar + big batteries makes DC practical for a lot of homes.
 

hmscott

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Hasn't dc transmition been tried? If remember rightly it's crap for nation-wide application. And you'd need a hundered different plugs for all the voltages devices use or be back to needing lumps for voltage conversion.
Nah, just like AC power in the home we'd eventually standardize on plugs and voltages.

For DC it might even be easier as this time we are all familiar enough with the benefits of standardization from the start. The HVDC is being standardized, the Datacenter DC distribution has been standardized on 48v (after Communications Standards) for now as Google's "Open Rack" Initiative contribution to Facebooks "Open Compute Project".

If you read the 9 Reasons Why DC May Replace AC above, and use the other links to track down other papers by Dr. Gregory Reed, he has authored or co-authored many interesting papers on the subject.

You can start by reading the first link I gave you 9 Reasons Why DC May Replace AC, which goes to an article Dr. Gregory Reed wrote summarizing the reasons to switch from AC to DC 130+ years after the "War of the Currents" started in the 1880's.

I don't think he would mind if I passed on his list of the 9 Reasons Why DC May Replace AC here:
https://www.electricalindustry.ca/latest-news/1018-9-reasons-why-dc-may-replace-ac

"Direct Current (DC) electric power is an emerging disruptive technological area that has the potential to stimulate economic growth, inspire innovation, increase research and development opportunities, create jobs, and simultaneously advance environmental sustainability.

DC technology and applications offer the promise of enhanced energy efficiency, improved power quality and reliability, and inherent alignment with renewable and clean energy development.

The power of direct current (DC)

DC power is beginning to evolve towards replacing AC as a worldwide standard for electricity delivery infrastructure, in many applications, based on the nine reasons listed below:

1. DC power is significantly more energy efficient than AC power.
• DC motors and appliances have higher efficiency and power to size characteristics.
• DC-based lighting (LED) is as much as 75% more efficient than incandescent lighting.
• The greater efficiency resulting from recent developments in DC converter technology allows improvements in electricity delivery over long distances.

2. DC is inherently compatible with renewable sources of energy such as solar and wind. These renewable sources generate power intermittently (when the sun shines or the wind blows), requiring storage (batteries) in some applications as part of the system in order to provide reliable supply, and also require a power conversion interface to the grid. Solar PV is inherently a DC energy supply, as are batteries, making DC a more naturally compatible interface.

3. Energy storage integration is enhanced. Energy storage is required to improve the capacity utilization of renewable energy supplies. Most energy storage technologies are DC-based (primarily in the form of battery technologies), creating opportunities for improved integration efficiencies and reduced operating losses.

4. Electronic equipment operates on DC power. There is a loss of 5% to 20% when AC power is converted to DC power. The increasing reliance on electronic equipment creates a greater need for DC power. Eliminating these conversion losses from AC to DC will become even more important, and will motivate a shift to DC power, and require advances in new power conversion technologies.

5. DC and Hybrid AC/DC micro-grids are being developed. Micro-grid applications can effectively integrate local power generation with the main power grid to effectively serve defined end-use loads; improve reliability, especially under disturbance event conditions; and create opportunities to buy and sell (net metering) power to minimize energy costs to the consumer.

6. The technology needed to gain the advantages of DC power in data centers, homes, and communities is making significant advances.

• DC power is already in use at the “bottom of the pyramid,” for example in rural India and China, because the national (AC) power grid does not reach there. Four states in India are experimenting with providing DC power to homes; a 2014 initiative that is created and led by a partner in the Business of Humanity® project, with the financial support of the Central Government in India.

• Also, the most significant new consumers of electric power today are the companies (Google, Apple, Visa, etc.) at the “apex of the pyramid,” which operate computer data centers and server farms. They need DC power because electronics require DC power. New developments for DC applications are creating investment in local DC power generation in order to ensure 24/7 reliability with zero downtime, and improve the efficiency of supply.

• Electric vehicles use DC (battery) power and their batteries can be charged using DC power in a small fraction of the time needed for charging using AC power. In Europe, smart villages that use DC power are being designed, and electric vehicles are envisaged as part of the storage system for renewable power.

7. New technologies support clean, local, distributed generation of DC power. Solar, wind, second-generation clean biomass, and innovative, low-cost fuel cell designs that use natural gas are ideal for green, local power generation. DC infrastructure will help to better improve the integration of such resources into the grid, and enhance their overall economic and environmental value proposition.

8. Many new long-distance transmission lines in the U.S., China, India, and Europe are moving toward ultra-high voltage DC (HVDC). In the U.S., the new transmission lines from major wind and solar farms in the mid-west and western states are being planned as HVDC, in addition to an emergence of HVDC merchant transmission projects throughout the county. There already are approximately 20 HVDC systems in operation in the U.S. and Canada. All of China’s new high voltage transmission is planned as HVDC, with dozens of systems already in operation and over 20 new systems in planning stages. Europe is expanding and upgrading much of its transmission infrastructure with HVDC being a significant part of their plans, including interconnection of nations and continents. HVDC transmission is cheaper than AC at a certain distance for power delivery, because of recently developed disruptive technologies involving power semi-conductors. Other esoteric technical reasons (such as elimination of the “skin effect” that arises with AC) and reduced losses through advanced power converter designs motivate the shift to DC transmission. Moreover, the investment for HVDC transmission is less because the gauges (thickness) of the wires can be smaller, and because one less wire is required (two poles for DC vs. three-phases for AC). Therefore, many of the major reasons why the world went with AC at the turn of the 20th century are no longer relevant. Today there are strong economic reasons and sustainability-related incentives to invest in DC infrastructure.

9. In China and Europe, new cities and villages are being envisioned that will be entirely DC powered. In green-field applications, from resource and delivery infrastructure to end-use applications, complete DC system concepts and operation are being considered in many developing parts of the world. As we look to electrify more remote parts of the globe, there are many advantages to employing DC infrastructure.

"Gregory Reed, PhD, is the Director of the Electric Power Initiative in the Swanson School of Engineering at the University of Pittsburgh, Director of the University’s Center for Energy, and Associate Professor of Electric Power Engineering in the Swanson School’s Department of Electrical & Computer Engineering. He is also the Director and Technical Lead of the Grid Technologies Collaborative for the U.S. Department of Energy's National Energy Technology Laboratory, and an inaugural member of the National Academies of Science and Engineering's Energy Ambassador Program. In addition to these roles, he is the owner and principal consultant of Power Grid Technology Consulting, LLC. "
Now, how many reasons were there? o_O
Why Southern China Broke Up Its Power Grid - IEEE Spectrum
What’s more, says Gregory Reed, a DC expert at the University of Pittsburgh, HVDC can act as a firewall against cascading failures such as the Northeast blackout, which plunged 50 million people from Ontario to New Jersey into darkness in 2003. CSG’s AC breakup, he says, is pointing the way toward more resilient power systems. “They are doing what we should have embarked on in the [United States] and Canada a long time ago. Our AC synchronous networks are huge—way too large, in my opinion.”

"No country has gone as far with HVDC as China has. It operates more than 20 HVDC lines that deliver hydro, coal, and wind power from the nation’s interior to its eastern megacities. In southern China, five HVDC lines carry about 26 gigawatts of hydropower from mountainous Yunnan province to the coastal factories of Guangdong, meeting more than one-quarter of that province’s electricity demand.

"It was this concentration of HVDC transmission that prompted the regional grid operator, Guangzhou-based China Southern Power Grid Co. (CSG), to take an unprecedented step: breaking up its AC grid."

Wait! What? That article was from 2016! Is China is going to HVDC for all of its power distribution?

World's First HVDC Grid Enabled in China
https://www.tdworld.com/grid-innova...71926/worlds-first-hvdc-grid-enabled-in-china
Delivery of wind energy through network-based architecture will ensure more stable and reliable electricity to meet higher demand during Beijing 2022 Winter Olympic Games

IDK how these projects progressed during Covid-19 shutdowns, but in 2018 there were plans to continue to phase in VSC-HVDC in 2020/2021 for the 2022 Olympic games.

Article comment: "The Zhangei 500KV DC Grid main players: SGCC did the system design/engineering. The project has 4 VSC-HVDC suppliers , 6 DC breaker suppliers, 2 P&C suppliers, 4 converter transformer vendors."
 
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fredristair

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20 ohm = 3.2W with 2.86V input.
1.6W using a 2V DAC.

Most likely you will never reach 1.6W peaks in practice (digital file 0dBFS, volume control at max and high gain, no EQ)
Thanks greatly for the reply. You are extremely knowledgeable.

I will say that I'm surprised that with the E30 the output drops from 16 ohms at 2.6W output to 20 ohms at 1.6W output.
 

solderdude

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I will say that I'm surprised that with the E30 the output drops from 16 ohms at 2.6W output to 20 ohms at 1.6W output.

It doesn't.
in 16 ohm = 2.6W, in 20 ohm = 3.2W but this can only be reached with a minimum input voltage of 2.86V which most DACs do not reach.
 

fredristair

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It doesn't.
in 16 ohm = 2.6W, in 20 ohm = 3.2W but this can only be reached with a minimum input voltage of 2.86V which most DACs do not reach.

This post got me confused for a second.

To summarize:

The E30 outputs at 2V. John Yang acknowledged earlier in the thread that the specs were done with a higher output volt dac. He stated that the E30 through the L30 can do 2.6W at 16ohm. Originally provoking this admission, Amir found that the L30 can do 1W at 32ohm (2V dac). And in your findings - the E30 would output 1.6W at 20 ohms. Correct?

Thoughts anyone on the ability of the L30 to drive a pair of LCD-X (EQed and not EQed?). I want a different, cleaner (relatively inexpensive) flavor with my LCD-X and don't feel like getting a THX 789 or THX One aaa. Regards ya'll. Amazing forum!
 

solderdude

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solderdude

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Thoughts anyone on the ability of the L30 to drive a pair of LCD-X (EQed and not EQed?). I want a different, cleaner (relatively inexpensive) flavor with my LCD-X and don't feel like getting a THX 789 or THX One aaa.

LCD-X = 108dB/V (92dB/mW) and you can reach 5.6V (using the E30) = 123dB peak SPL. With some EQ to compensate and using -5dB pre-amp gain you can still reach 118B SPL in the non-EQ'd frequencies and 121dB SPL in the EQ'ed parts.

No need to have more power on tap.
 

solderdude

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solderdude

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Okay thanks for the explainaiton :)

Maybe this:
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B005EWBJPO/ref=cm_sw_r_wa_apa_glt_i_RECHRYFDRD1MFS6QXVT2
It says 1500mA max but I think 15v 1000mA should be possible with it.
And It says AC to AC

No... when in the article's page or data sheet the word DC is mentioned and/or regulated they are not suitable

profitec MW 924 EUP Universal Steckernetzteil DC 9V 12V 13,5V 15V 18V 20V 24V / 1500mA max.

When you want a spare order one from Topping.
 
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