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Topping L30 Headphone Amplifier Review

bogi

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To @bogi I guess I'll just say this:

There are lots of people who claim that they can hear something. Most of them can't actually make a difference in a real double blind test.

In this case however, you MAY actually hear something... since the oversampled signal is being slightly degraded vs. the original.

Now you may be able to actually prefer the degraded one : it's your right ! Just like some people prefer that good old "tube sound" with lots of THD. What you can't do is pretend that it's actually better from a scientific / high-fidelity point of view. It's not and it will never be, so just drop it. That's what people in this topic are telling you, including John Yang who is arguably more knowledgeable than most of us on this matter.

Without scientific proof to back up your claims, not only nobody will believe you, but most people here will actually get bored. This is "Audio Science Review" after all, not "Audiophile Magic". And by "scientific proof" I mean either some concrete measurement we wouldn't know about, or the results of an ABX listening test that would clearly be outside of the statistical error range. Until then... ;)
You are another one who missed the point. So this answer is also for you: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ne-amplifier-review.15226/page-62#post-521855

Think a bit next time before you start writing ... and educate yourself.

> In this case however, you MAY actually hear something... since the oversampled signal is being slightly degraded vs. the original.
All your delta sigma DACs including your phone or TV are performing oversampling.

> Now you may be able to actually prefer the degraded one : it's your right !
That's about you ...

> Without scientific proof to back up your claims
You are not able to read and understand written text.

> either some concrete measurement
I provided one, it shows the opposite you are mistakenly thinking.
 

Jose Hidalgo

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@bogi yeah yeah, sure sure. Not gonna waste my time with you anymore.
Since you don't seem to understand, read this one again, it's not from me: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-e30-dac-review.12119/post-516581 . It lists some of your funny (for lack of a better word) assertions and gives them appropriate answers.
Bye.

source.gif
 

1roger

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I don't agree with either of you. I think people should proceed in two easy steps :
  1. Get a system that's as "hi-fi" as possible, in all scientific aspects and measures. That provides a stable reference.

  2. If they don't like it enough ear-wise, play with all the fabulous modern DSPs that we have to make it more suitable to their ears. Equalize it (even in V-shape if they want). Add that distinctive "tube" flavor and THD. Do whatever the hell they want, because NOW everybody can do it when a few years ago it wasn't possible yet. BUT do it always from that stable reference. Because if you don't have a stable reference to begin with, you don't know where you are or what you like. You think you know, which is very different. ;)

well that was one silly advice for a newcomer into the audio world^^ a better advice would be to visit lots of hifi shops and friends with good gear and have a listen..many times over. then get components you like the sound of... and test the full system back home - vital for your choice of speakers. 1 single well researched purchase which for most will last for years
 

GoMrPickles

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This is the data I'm here for. Also, I wanted to make everyone scroll past this on a new page.

Hell of a little amp. Hard to tell if there's a little more low end than with the THX 789, or if I have just turned up the volume. Probably the latter, but hey, I can't tell.

Edit: Dangit, the forum doesn't automatically repeat the giant image. Amir!!!
 

Jose Hidalgo

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well that was one silly advice for a newcomer into the audio world^^ a better advice would be [...]
  1. You may want to think twice before using insulting words like "silly". I disagree with you both (and I'm not the only one here judging from the likes I got for that post) but I'm not calling you names, so I strongly suggest you hold your tongue from now on.
  2. We are talking about 'hi-fi' here. If a newcomer into the audio world just wants to buy a pretty black box with shiny LEDs that makes 'good sound' subjectively, good for him but that's not necessarily hi-fi. However if a newcomer into the audio world wants to be serious about hi-fi, there is only one way, and it's step 1 of my previous post. That's not even debatable. Fidelity means 'fidelity'. This is just the endless debate between hifists and audiophiles, so don't make us start all over again.
 

Max DDD

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Inside Pics .
Well , 3 days so far , I'm impressed . It needs burn in , say 20 hours .
does better in "dc mode" , really detailed , sound stage kinda expand , deepness too , or better UnVeils (quite a lot) ... nichi green NP are usually quite good But...
can do (does) lil better with mkp bypass on nichi golds .
delta T (over ambient) ~15 C , outside case ... power consumption ~7 W.
power brick warms up too .
look at volpot :) . channel unbalance and low level usability , Top Notch , very smart adding three different levels !
As a preamp , well : very nice , detailed and dynamic like class a , very clean!
Sounds better , paired with E30 , on -9db... maybe I'll try 10k series resistors , dale , lowest Johnson noise ;)
 

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Jimbob54

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Inside Pics .
Well , 3 days so far , I'm impressed . It needs burn in , say 20 hours .
does better in "dc mode" , really detailed , sound stage kinda expand , deepness too , or better UnVeils (quite a lot) ... nichi green NP are usually quite good But...
can do (does) lil better with mkp bypass on nichi golds .
delta T (over ambient) ~15 C , outside case ... power consumption ~7 W.
power brick warms up too .
look at volpot :) . channel un balance and low level usability , Top Notch , very smart adding three different levels !
As a preamp , well : very nice , detailed and dynamic like class a , very clean!
Sounds better paired with E30 on -9

DC mode?
 

MechEngVic

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May 15, 2019
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Inside Pics .
Well , 3 days so far , I'm impressed . It needs burn in , say 20 hours .
does better in "dc mode" , really detailed , sound stage kinda expand , deepness too , or better UnVeils (quite a lot) ... nichi green NP are usually quite good But...
can do (does) lil better with mkp bypass on nichi golds .
delta T (over ambient) ~15 C , outside case ... power consumption ~7 W.
power brick warms up too .
look at volpot :) . channel unbalance and low level usability , Top Notch , very smart adding three different levels !
As a preamp , well : very nice , detailed and dynamic like class a , very clean!
Sounds better , paired with E30 , on -9db... maybe I'll try 10k series resistors , dale , lowest Johnson noise ;)
What's DC mode?!
 

BDWoody

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You are another one who missed the point. So this answer is also for you: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ne-amplifier-review.15226/page-62#post-521855

Think a bit next time before you start writing ... and educate yourself.

> In this case however, you MAY actually hear something... since the oversampled signal is being slightly degraded vs. the original.
All your delta sigma DACs including your phone or TV are performing oversampling.

> Now you may be able to actually prefer the degraded one : it's your right !
That's about you ...

> Without scientific proof to back up your claims
You are not able to read and understand written text.

> either some concrete measurement
I provided one, it shows the opposite you are mistakenly thinking.

:facepalm:
 

1roger

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However if a newcomer into the audio world wants to be serious about hi-fi, there is only one way, and it's step 1 of my previous post. That's not even debatable. Fidelity means 'fidelity'

you do realize makers of `serious` hifi equipment invest a lot of time actually listening to their designs right? ..and adjust accordingly. and then the idea is for the end user to just skip that component, as it is clearly beneath us
 

BDWoody

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better advice would be to visit lots of hifi shops and friends with good gear and have a listen..many times over. then get components you like the sound of... and test the full system back home - vital for your choice of speakers.

Agreed that speakers should be auditioned if at all possible. The rest of it, not so much. An engineered solid state box can be evaluated based on tested performance, so there should be no surprises in terms of what you're going to get.

Speaker performance is all over the place, and until it gets into your own room you will be playing much more of a guessing game.
 

Jose Hidalgo

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Yes @BDWoody ! :) That's because speakers (loudspeakers and cabinet) are something much more complicated to accurately design and master scientifically, and less predictable, than electronics.
  • Speakers are the weakest link of any hi-fi system. They are by far the less 'hi-fi' by scientific measurements. That is due to the current state of technology. We have IMHO more room for improvement on speakers than we have on electronics.
  • Speakers response depends on a lot of outside factors (room, distance to the walls, furniture...). That's why it makes sense to listen to them at your own place if possible, and/or to optimize their response with a good DRC solution. Electronics aren't dependent on outside factors, they sound the same in every room.
Speakers should always be listened to, simply because their response depends on location, and because we don't master the technology enough. Designing them is often "trial and error" : "a little more/less damping here and there"... "adjust the BR event's length (hence their tuning) by ear even though formulas say otherwise, because current formulas don't take everything into account"...

But speakers aside, any solid state box can indeed be evaluated based on tested performance. ;)
 

Nelaer

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This is both my dining table and my work table. Not the most convenient location, though have no issue with cables length.
Is it safe to use one electric socket with 3-sockets splitter: L30's power brick, 1.0A 5V charger for E30 and 180W laptop AC adapter?
All plugs aren't hot, just warm, E30 is warm and L30 is little bit warmer than E30.
 

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Vini darko

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This is both my dining table and my work table. Not the most convenient location, though have no issue with cables length.
Is it safe to use one electric socket with 3-sockets splitter: L30's power brick, 1.0A 5V charger for E30 and 180W laptop AC adapter?
All plugs aren't hot, just warm, E30 is warm and L30 is little bit warmer than E30.
Hi yes thats safe. That's probably around 200watt draw. Mains sockets can usually handle 1000watt constant draw without issue. In the UK 2000watt constant isnt an issue :D
 

Sgt. Ear Ache

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Agreed that speakers should be auditioned if at all possible. The rest of it, not so much. An engineered solid state box can be evaluated based on tested performance, so there should be no surprises in terms of what you're going to get.

Speaker performance is all over the place, and until it gets into your own room you will be playing much more of a guessing game.

Still worthwhile to start with a speaker that measures well. Then, you'll have a much better chance of getting it sounding good in your room. The old method of travelling around "auditioning" speakers in sales rooms is a road to madness really.
 
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