Topping L30 Headphone Amplifier Review

[odyo]

I don't mind discrete. I don't like the notion of 'discrete class A'. Why manufacturers always put discrete and class A together. Class AB is more than fine. Discrete can achieve better performance than ICs. I like when it does and hate it when it doesn't.

Any plans for your personal discrete amplifier projects?

Yeah i was about to ask the same question

 

[JohnYang1997]

Any plans for your personal discrete amplifier projects?

I have been designing for quite a few months now. I'll let it mature first. There was even a tube hybrid design with 0.00005% best case THD.

 

[Veri]

I have been designing for quite a few months now. I'll let it matures first. There was even a tube hybrid design with 0.00005% best case THD.

Yeah let it mature. Still A50s and A30 Pro coming up etc. We'll wait

 

[Jave]

My E30 and L30 arrived today. Everything works well, and very happy with the usabilities, functionalities, build and sound quality of the stack so far. No issue with the RCA sockets. Various cables that I have, including the braided Fanmusic cables that Apos included with the stack, fit just right. Temperature of the L30 stays at about 36C after using it for over an hour (measured using an infrared thermometer). E30 is about 34C. After months of research for a desktop audio setup, it's time to relax and enjoy music
View attachment 81496

Nice! And what is the ambient room temperature?

 

[solderdude]

Nice! And what is the ambient room temperature?

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ne-amplifier-review.15226/page-46#post-505996

 

[JohnYang1997]

Amir measured the pro ican. It seems fine. Not superb like your l30 but not snake oil type of deceptive product. Measuring decent.

''Discrete class a'' thing interesting to me. Different approach. What do you think about that ? I don't know how power delivery works between amp and headphone. I guess headphone demands power from amp, amp delivers needed power with agility ? How it works with class a though Sorry for muddying the topic.

BTW, it seems the zen can measures much worse than pro ican according to the spec. Pro ican does measure pretty well.

 

[MechEngVic]

OK, measured RCA plugs.

RCA outer shell standard dimension is 8.25mm

Topping D30 measures 8.175mm

Topping L30 measures 8.1mm

Definitely next-to-insignificant, but to some of us, noticeable.

 

[JohnYang1997]

OK, measured RCA plugs.

RCA outer shell standard dimension is 8.25mm

Topping D30 measures 8.175mm
View attachment 81647
Topping L30 measures 8.1mm
View attachment 81648
Definitely next-to-insignificant, but to some of us, noticeable.

I just measured a few. Lowest value is 8.18mm. 8.1mm is surely much lower than 8.25mm.

 

[MechEngVic]

I just measured a few. Lowest value is 8.18mm. 8.1mm is surely much lower than 8.25mm.

I measured several others an they all fall below 8.25

I just measured a few. Lowest value is 8.18mm. 8.1mm is surely much lower than 8.25mm.

SORRY, I counted my caliper wrong: (please guys correct me if i'm wrong, can't find my digital)

Topping D30 is 8.35mm
Topping L30 is 8.20mm

Looking through google search results of anywhere between 8.2mm to 8.4mm

So John, our 8.2 and 8.18 sound a lot closer.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I measured several others an they all fall below 8.25

SORRY, I counted my caliper wrong: (please guys correct me if i'm wrong, can't find my digital)

Topping D30 is 8.35mm
Topping L30 is 8.20mm

Looking through google search results of anywhere between 8.2mm to 8.4mm

That shouldn't really cause any problem. Because since last December, I had done over 100 PCBs myself and soldered using this exact part. Never had any issue with connectivity. Not as tight as some other ones, yes. But some one said it was cutting out. I'd say that's issue of cable. This can certainly happen that the cable has been plugged onto some oversized and stretched out. But still I had been using old, new, all different cables with no issues.

 

[MechEngVic]

Here's one I grabbed from my parts bin:

That shouldn't really cause any problem. Because since last December, I had done over 100 PCBs myself and soldered using this exact part. Never had any issue with connectivity. Not as tight as some other ones, yes. But some one said it was cutting out. I'd say that's issue of cable. This can certainly happen that the cable has been plugged onto some oversized and stretched out. But still I had been using old, new, all different cables with no issues.

Agreed. Still can't believe how awesome this little amp is!

 

[aHaidc]

I have been designing for quite a few months now. I'll let it mature first. There was even a tube hybrid design with 0.00005% best case THD.

Topping's Tube Hybrid design would be worth waiting for

 

[MadMan]

RE: DMS, and other subjective influencer/reviewer types...potential hidden biases aside, I'm pretty sure most of them are in the process of damaging their hearing, or already have, possibly quite severely. They listen way too loud way too often, I'm certain of it. Part of their 'job', unfortunately, is to get views, clicks on affiliate links, and hype going; if they say something controversial, it makes them money too. If they say something non-sensical like 'you need high gain for this headphone' (said in a recent review of the HD600/650 wrt the Atom amp) or 'you need ten watts for headroom to make a lower-sensitivity headphone 'come alive' (for a few notorious headphones), it stirs up the click/view money hypetrain.

Unfortunately, the web influencer/reviewer culture quickly devolved into the same thing the internet helped us avoid at first, the old media publication advertiser money motivation.

Latest update. E30 and L30 will not be changed. We will just contact all the sellers to change specifications. The output power with 2V is just what it is. Take it or leave it. What's so important about it. L30 doesn't need the power to take the crown. There are many more details for better experience. It's perfect as it is.

Well, thank god for that. I was worried reading through the thread and things were getting crazy. Changing a DAC to 3V output for the sake of the amp seemed silly and would cause its own set of problems, as did all the craziness about changing gains on the L30 or other amps. All anyone wanted in the first place was clear 'real world' specs. Given that you recommend E30 (2V output) with the L30, it only makes sense to for the manufacturer to provide those specs. As you can see below, it can and does cause confusion, like it or not. While consumers should be reasonably knowledgeable, it's easy to overlook details too.

The imagination of the reviewer. If he can imagine the less powerful amp is the more powerful, despite the availability of specifications saying otherwise, I'm sure he's capable of imagining all sorts of other differences.



Topping power output @ 32Ω: 2300mW
Atom power output @ 32Ω: 1000mW

I like to firmly grab my knob lol. But yeah it's a little slick since it's smooth plastic.

lol. Is there some law that says you have grab the knob at 9 and 3 0'clock ? Just use 11 and 7 0r 12 and 6 For real though, I reached toward mine without thinking about it, and 9 and 3 felt really awkward because I had to twist my forearm and wrist, 11 and 7 was 'natural' because I just reach out with my hand at about a 45 degree angle. *I see you got a different knob anyway

Is anyone using the L30 as a preamp? I'm using a Heresy as a preamp now and have got noise problems that I can't solve, driving a Crown XLS 1500 power amplifier. I have used other preamps and haven't had this sever a problem with them. I know I can go to a balanced preamp/DAC and have it be silent because I have an older TEAC with volume control and balanced outputs that is dead quiet in the same installation. I just wanted a better DAC and then got the Heresy.
I'm wondering if the sensitivity to noise might be caused by the Heresy using a complex 8 opamp circuit for each channel, so I'm considering ordering an L30 to see if that is better. I also have an older headphone amp from Nuforce that is lower in noise even though it has higher gain than the Heresy, so I'm pretty sure it's not just the installation (I'm very sure the Nuforce doesn't measure anywhere near as low in noise as the Heresy).

I am using it as a preamp, no noise problem. What is the noise exactly ? Hiss ? Ground loop ? Iirc the Crown amps (maybe not your model) have input gain settings for 'pro' or 'consumer'...did you set that correctly ? It does sound as if the Crown is just noisier with single-ended input at least.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Well, thank god for that. I was worried reading through the thread and things were getting crazy. Changing a DAC to 3V output for the sake of the amp seemed silly and would cause its own set of problems, as did all the craziness about changing gains on the L30 or other amps. All anyone wanted in the first place was clear 'real world' specs. Given that you recommend E30 (2V output) with the L30, it only makes sense to for the manufacturer to provide those specs. As you can see below, it can and does cause confusion, like it or not. While consumers should be reasonably knowledgeable, it's easy to overlook details too.





lol. Is there some law that says you have grab the knob at 9 and 3 0'clock ? Just use 11 and 7 0r 12 and 6 For real though, I reached toward mine without thinking about it, and 9 and 3 felt really awkward because I had to twist my forearm and wrist, 11 and 7 was 'natural' because I just reach out with my hand at about a 45 degree angle. *I see you got a different knob anyway



I am using it as a preamp, no noise problem. What is the noise exactly ? Hiss ? Ground loop ? Iirc the Crown amps (maybe not your model) have input gain settings for 'pro' or 'consumer'...did you set that correctly ?

The only thing that's bothering me was the asking for headroom with 2V input for output power. The amp itself is capable of doing that, all the headroom is there. What's the point of having higher output but what people do is having 3V input or higher gain but dialing back volume control.
Not mentioning at 16Ohm, 2V input will give 2.2W. smh.
Anyway, have a nice day.

 

[raif71]

RE: DMS, and other subjective influencer/reviewer types...potential hidden biases aside, I'm pretty sure most of them are in the process of damaging their hearing, or already have, possibly quite severely. They listen way too loud way too often, I'm certain of it. Part of their 'job', unfortunately, is to get views, clicks on affiliate links, and hype going; if they say something controversial, it makes them money too. If they say something non-sensical like 'you need high gain for this headphone' (said in a recent review of the HD600/650 wrt the Atom amp) or 'you need ten watts for headroom' (yes, really) to make the headphone 'come alive', it stirs up the click/view money hypetrain.

Unfortunately, the web influencer/reviewer culture quickly devolved into the same thing the internet helped us avoid at first, the old media publication advertiser money motivation.



Well, thank god for that. I was worried reading through the thread and things were getting crazy. Changing a DAC to 3V output for the sake of the amp seemed silly and would cause its own set of problems, as did all the craziness about changing gains on the L30 or other amps. All anyone wanted in the first place was clear 'real world' specs. Given that you recommend E30 (2V output) with the L30, it only makes sense to for the manufacturer to provide those specs. As you can see below, it can and does cause confusion, like it or not. While consumers should be reasonably knowledgeable, it's easy to overlook details too.

Unfortunately some sources (especially classical) do need that extra headroom at 0db but hey, I just flick gain to +9db and I get that extra headroom, no problem. Having said that, is there an inexpensive dac with good measurements that do provide 3V SE (or more) output ? Thanks

 

[JohnYang1997]

Unfortunately some sources (especially classical) do need that extra headroom at 0db but hey, I just flick gain to +9db and I get that extra headroom, no problem. Having said that, is there an inexpensive dac with good measurements that do provide 3V SE (or more) output ? Thanks

Actually you can stack two L30s together to get the extra gain if you really want. You still get better than 120dB SINAD with both on high gain.

 

[MadMan]

The only thing that's bothering me was the asking for headroom with 2V input for output power. The amp itself is capable of doing that, all the headroom is there. What's the point of having higher output but what people do is having 3V input or higher gain but dialing back volume control.
Not mentioning at 16Ohm, 2V input will give 2.2W. smh.
Anyway, have a nice day.

Well, I did mention headroom myself, at least as a reason people think more power = better. Plus, all other things being equal, why not more power ?

Headroom for speakers and instantaneous amp output is a known thing, but speakers are a different beast given that the 'headroom' power quickly gets out of control for them for a number of reasons that don't apply to headphones. (The example I recall is average listening volume 'peaks' taking 500W+ which was well beyond the average power). It would be something interesting to investigate at least, I wish I had the instruments to do so.

 

[Veri]

Actually you can stack two L30s together to get the extra gain if you really want. You still get better than 120dB SINAD with both on high gain.

Will there be D30 pro with 'Pro' level high voltage DAC output?

 

[JohnYang1997]

Well, I did mention headroom myself, at least as a reason people think more power = better. Plus, all other things being equal, why not more power ?

Headroom for speakers and instantaneous amp output is a known thing, but speakers are a different beast given that the 'headroom' power quickly gets out of control for them for a number of reasons that don't apply to headphones. (The example I recall is average listening volume 'peaks' taking 500W+ which was well beyond the average power). It would be something interesting to investigate at least, I wish I had the instruments to do so.

The key is 'using 2V input to evaluate headroom'. That's not headroom. Headroom is internally in the amp how far away from voltage clipping and current limiting.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Will there be D30 pro with 'Pro' level high voltage DAC output?

D30pro has 2.5V for RCA and 5.2 for XLR.