Topping L30 HeadAMP

[3125b]

which amp has more favorable spects to drive low impedance planar magnetic headphones such as LCDX?

Clearly the L30, it's vastly superior.
The AM01 is a pretty sketchy (lower quality) knockoff of the SMSL SP200. I personally wouldn't buy that thing for 50$.

And second question: what can I expect by using tube preamp in audio chain with L30 amp? I'm assuming that coloration is the obvious one but any advantage of an extra gain? Thanks.

Why would you bother getting a high fidelity amp if you're gonna combine it with a tube preamp?
Well, the highest gain of the L30 is +9.5dB, so the required input level to reach maximum power output would be 3Vrms. If your DAC doesn't deliver that, and you actually think you might need it (probably not with commond headphones), a preamp could be useful.
Otherwise, it's just gonna degrade the signal with no benefits.

 

[Racheski]

Hi everyone. I have a two part question that will apply to my personal setup.
Between AM01 Headphone Amp from F.Audio (on Drop) and Topping L30, which amp has more favorable spects to drive low impedance planar magnetic headphones such as LCDX? And second question: what can I expect by using tube preamp in audio chain with L30 amp? I'm assuming that coloration is the obvious one but any advantage of an extra gain? Thanks.

The AM01 is sketchy AF (also the Drop run is over, but you can find it other places). Amir always looks for FCC/CE Certification in his reviews, and I don't see that mark on the product unlike the original SMSL SP200.
Maybe @JohnYang1997 or @Veri know more about it?

 

[iamwhoiam]

Why would you bother getting a high fidelity amp if you're gonna combine it with a tube preamp?

...it's just gonna degrade the signal with no benefits.

I respectfully disagree. This is pure objectivism without any holistic thought (entschuldigung).

People don't buy tube gear for clarity or tranparency. Some tube amp harmonic distortion is favourable when paired with certain gear. Pairing and balance with tubes is the key.

His concept isn't too unusual:

 

[3125b]

People don't buy tube gear for clarity or tranparency

To degrade the signal, yes, that's what I wrote.

 

[iamwhoiam]

To degrade the signal, yes, that's what I wrote.

Literally, yes. Context, no....

it's just gonna degrade the signal with no benefits.

 

[3125b]

I you want distortion, just add it digitally. That comes cheaper and can be turned on and off at will.

 

[MSTARK]

Clearly the L30, it's vastly superior.
The AM01 is a pretty sketchy (lower quality) knockoff of the SMSL SP200. I personally wouldn't buy that thing for 50$.

Why would you bother getting a high fidelity amp if you're gonna combine it with a tube preamp?
Well, the highest gain of the L30 is +9.5dB, so the required input level to reach maximum power output would be 3Vrms. If your DAC doesn't deliver that, and you actually think you might need it (probably not with commond headphones), a preamp could be useful.
Otherwise, it's just gonna degrade the signal with no benefits.

Strangely, I have both amps coming my way to test and try with my cans. So, L30 should be more comparable with something like audeze lcdx..... great, that pretty much answers my question. I was hoping that you could point to spects that makes L30 a better choice? Let's take sp200 as an example and ditch that clone for a sec. Which spects are you looking for in an amp to determine compatibility with low impedance cans such as LCDX?
As to tube amp.... well, I'm happy with that amp and it sounds fantastic but, someone suggested a SS amp (bc of low impedance of lcdx) as it might match better with my lcdx cans. I'm not a huge SS kinda guy so I figured a hybrid configuration might work. I don't mind euphoric bloom or less then perfect accuracy. Coming from ordinary stereo world, I was under impression that there really isn't a detrimental factor by having a quality preamp in audio chain. I believe it's quite the opposite (for some it's still debatable). For whatever reason, that extra gain in well design circuitry seems to sound fuller, more dynamic to my ears. I take that this isn't a concensus in headFi world.... Thank you for any pointers and advice.

I respectfully disagree. This is pure objectivism without any holistic thought (entschuldigung).

People don't buy tube gear for clarity or tranparency. Some tube amp harmonic distortion is favourable when paired with certain gear. Pairing and balance with tubes is the key.

His concept isn't too unusual:

Dark Voice is supper syrupy (not my fav. amp) but it's not to bad with my hotter cans. Dragon Inspire is totally different animal. No caps/resistors in signal path . Pretty transparent for a tube amp. It serves double duty as linestage backup in my stereo rig.Technology in headphone amplifier design seems to really took off after thx launch few years ago. Unfortunately I'm not familiar with it and other newer designs and I think I might be missing out..... Generally I agree, tube amps are not best tools for accuracy. But I do like it nevertheless.

 

[MSTARK]

I you want distortion, just add it digitally. That comes cheaper and can be turned on and off at will.

If you can digitally replicate "distortion" of my 300b tube amp, I do buy it in a heartbeat. Lol

 

[MSTARK]

To degrade the signal, yes, that's what I wrote.

You do realize that best mastering studios use vacuum tube based gear to this day right..... and best master tapes of yesterday used tubes almost exclusively. Every instrument in Symphony is design for one thing and one thing only, pleasant to ear harmonic distortion. Food for thought.

 

[somebodyelse]

If you can digitally replicate "distortion" of my 300b tube amp, I do buy it in a heartbeat. Lol

Ask Kemper or Fractal Audio - they've been doing it well enough to convince some fairly picky guitarists.

 

[Human Bass]

The L30 for sure is the safer purchase. If you want to go full balanced out throttle, wait for the A50S.

 

[MSTARK]

The L30 for sure is the safer purchase. If you want to go full balanced out throttle, wait for the A50S.

Too late. Lol
But A50S would match nicely with my D50. No big deal.

 

[iamwhoiam]

I you want distortion, just add it digitally. That comes cheaper and can be turned on and off at will.

Ask Kemper or Fractal Audio - they've been doing it well enough to convince some fairly picky guitarists.

This may well be true for recording and/or synths, and I would agree that this may practically make more sense when paired with a transparent SOTA amp.

However, can you name me a DAP which does this? Or even a plugin? Either my search skills are terrible (very likely, so I'm unlikely to be surprised if you find one!), or there are no specific implementations which can make this theory a reality. i.e. Every digital tube filter I have seen is for studio pro audio/guitar synth, not commercial hifi.

 

[MSTARK]

This may well be true for recording and/or synths, and I would agree that this may practically make more sense when paired with a transparent SOTA amp.

However, can you name me a DAP which does this? Or even a plugin? Either my search skills are terrible (very likely, so I'm unlikely to be surprised if you find one!), or there are no specific implementations which can make this theory a reality. i.e. Every digital tube filter I have seen is for studio pro audio/guitar synth, not commercial hifi.

That’s why Manley (pro division) mic/tube amps, tube EQ etc costs premium. Sure there is software that can “imitate” tube bloom/distortion but is it really as good as the real thing? I’ve heard class A amps that came close, really close. Event one or two AB push/pull designs could fooled me with their specific tuning. But that only applies to certain topologies in tube amp/pre design. Today, in most “modern” designs, theres is this strange emphasis on equipment to sound “neutral” without those classic tube design characteristics. Even worst, some take pride in their gear being compared (sonically) to their SS counterparts. Not sure what is that about?
I believe there is plenty of room for both topologies and people should try both, and decide what works for them. If you like sterile, clean sound then that’s great. If someone like euphoric bloom and intimacy associated with tube or hybrid designs then fine. If you are a class “A” advocate ...well, good for you. I’m sure we can get alone just fine. Lol
BTW Vinyl is probably the most flawed (as far as distortion, surface noise is concerned etc) media out there. Love as well. If you enjoy the music, does it really matter what is your format choice...... I enjoy it all.

 

[Tup3x]

You do realize that best mastering studios use vacuum tube based gear to this day right..... and best master tapes of yesterday used tubes almost exclusively. Every instrument in Symphony is design for one thing and one thing only, pleasant to ear harmonic distortion. Food for thought.

Well, then there's no need to distort that glorious master any further...

 

[Veri]

Well, then there's no need to distort that glorious master any further...

Exactly, I don't see that as any justification or necessity for adding a layer of "tubes" on your audio?? Music should be mastered well already.

His concept isn't too unusual:

Well I respectfully, wholeheartedly disagree with this video. What exactly does this cheap Chinese pre-amp have in common with great mastering studios, you think they would ever use this kind of thing? To me this is just a youtuber making a very nice buck with all his referral links.

 

[boredatwork]

I would take anything a youtuber with poor/passable knowledge says with the tiniest grain of salt.

 

[solderdude]

... many arguments ...

Musicians should create the sound they want (using tubes or not) on their instruments only.
This is where tube distortion should be added.
If other instruments or voices also need 'tubeness' it should be done at that point with their own signal only.
Instruments/voices that don't have 'tubeness' added shouldn't have tube distortion added afterwards IF you are looking to reproduce the recording.

On reproduction with low distortion this recording should sound equally good as what was recorded (providing engineers didn't change things which they probably did in most cases).

One can choose to add 'tubeness' to get more personal pleasure. That's fine. Don't say it is 'better' as obviously there will be a difference between in and output signals. This won't be the case with low distortion amps.
It's a personal choice folks.

One should also realize that adding tubeness per instrument before mixing has a different result as adding 'tubeness' to the final signal which is an addition and tubeness is applied on the combined (added) signal of all instruments.

Whether one finds this pleasurable or not is another thing. Also there are many studios NOT using tubes everywhere and tape (which imparts its own thing) but most recordings are 'enhanced' with plugins to the channel they want. Mostly digital.

Don't get me wrong. I too design tube and non-tube based stuff. My views on 'lowest distortion is essential' obviously is not something I would claim.
People should (and do) have a choice in what they buy, use and prefer/like. There will always be manufacturing catering for it.

Regarding the 300b amp distortion.. I'll bet you can simulate it by using the transfer function of the amp AND increasing the output resistance of the SS amp in a similar way as the tube amp. I am pretty certain measurements will be the same and when tested blind will be indistinguishable.
Applying only the transfer function in DSP will not give the same results as the real deal because the output resistance combined with the impedance of the used speaker is also important and can not be simulated unless the output R and impedance plot of the used speaker are also simulated so will ONLY be valid in only that situation.

There is NO magic in tubes... there are free electrons floating around though but this is not magic but physics and is predictable and measurable.

End of 'tubes are bettaarrr' rant which is always based on sighted findings and is preference based.

 

[MSTARK]

Well, then there's no need to distort that glorious master any further...

Well, yes and no. I’m more in tune with my stereo rig then I’m with my headphone setup so I’ll use my stereo as an example. It will come down to:
1. Your personal preferences as to what music reproduction suppose to sound like.
2. Synergy and balance between components in audio chain.
3. Acoustic space.
4. Budget.
If we all heard music the same way and spects were the only way to gauge reproduction quality, musicality, soul, it would make it a whole lot easier for everyone. Unfortunately it is not the case. From guitar to guitar amp and tubes that drive that amp, all the way to mixing console, choice of mics, monitoring cans and studio monitors, it’s all part of personal preferences not the “industry standards”. To say that someone is trying to reproduce the music in the way creator intended and believes that he/she will get a mirror image of what that performance sounded like right there and then is a fools dream. So enjoy the music the way YOU thing it sounds best and most enjoyable. Not for me or others so called experts, but for your own personal pleasure.

 

[MSTARK]

Musicians should create the sound they want (using tubes or not) on their instruments only.
This is where tube distortion should be added.
If other instruments or voices also need 'tubeness' it should be done at that point with their own signal only.
Instruments/voices that don't have 'tubeness' added shouldn't have tube distortion added afterwards IF you are looking to reproduce the recording.

On reproduction with low distortion this recording should sound equally good as what was recorded (providing engineers didn't change things which they probably did in most cases).

One can choose to add 'tubeness' to get more personal pleasure. That's fine. Don't say it is 'better' as obviously there will be a difference between in and output signals. This won't be the case with low distortion amps.
It's a personal choice folks.

One should also realize that adding tubeness per instrument before mixing has a different result as adding 'tubeness' to the final signal which is an addition and tubeness is applied on the combined (added) signal of all instruments.

Whether one finds this pleasurable or not is another thing. Also there are many studios NOT using tubes everywhere and tape (which imparts its own thing) but most recordings are 'enhanced' with plugins to the channel they want. Mostly digital.

Don't get me wrong. I too design tube and non-tube based stuff. My views on 'lowest distortion is essential' obviously is not something I would claim.
People should (and do) have a choice in what they buy, use and prefer/like. There will always be manufacturing catering for it.

Regarding the 300b amp distortion.. I'll bet you can simulate it by using the transfer function of the amp AND increasing the output resistance of the SS amp in a similar way as the tube amp. I am pretty certain measurements will be the same and when tested blind will be indistinguishable.
Applying only the transfer function in DSP will not give the same results as the real deal because the output resistance combined with the impedance of the used speaker is also important and can not be simulated unless the output R and impedance plot of the used speaker are also simulated so will ONLY be valid in only that situation.

There is NO magic in tubes... there are free electrons floating around though but this is not magic but physics and is predictable and measurable.

End of 'tubes are bettaarrr' rant which is always based on sighted findings and is preference based.

Let’s keep it short. Tubes have place in music reproduction or creation still. It’s a matter of preference, taste and choice of tools to get you “there”.