Topping G5 Review (Portable DAC & HP Amp)

[NMixes]

Topping got back to me and said the filter choice is by design. They are willing to change it if we/I ask for it. Do we want to do it?

The trade off here is getting rid of out of band noise with current filter vs flatter frequency response but potentially more bleeding due to ultrasonic leakage.

Wow, the fact that they are willing to change that based on users asking for it speaks highly of the company.

 

[restorer-john]

To sell a digital product in 2022 that cannot achieve a ruler flat repsonse to 20kHz on 44.1k content out of the box is a very poor design choice.

At 48k, the response should be flat to 22kHz.

Let's not give high marks to SINAD and forget about the basic tenet of high fidelity- a flat response over the agreed human auditory range of 20Hz-20kHz.

 

[Phorize]

@amirm did you notice if using it whilst charging affects performance as with the nx4?

 

[amirm]

To sell a digital product in 2022 that cannot achieve a ruler flat repsonse to 20kHz on 44.1k content out of the box is a very poor design choice.

The design fully achieves flat response to 22 kHz. DAC chip companies provide these choices because they don't know what is right either. Do you want to advocate more leakage vs flat response?

 

[amirm]

@amirm did you notice if using it whilst charging affects performance as with the nx4?

I did not test for that. Will do later when I get a chance.

 

[dtaylo1066]

The design fully achieves flat response to 22 kHz. DAC chip companies provide these choices because they don't know what is right either. Do you want to advocate more leakage vs flat response?

Much ado about nothing, IMHO. I would challenge anyone on this forum and on the planet to be able to hear any difference, so the argument is one of numbers and spec chasing.

 

[Chrise36]

The filter should be switchable. Many iems and headphones will sound less harsh with this filter but there should be a choice for a filter with the correct frequency response.

 

[restorer-john]

Do you want to advocate more leakage vs flat response?

Absolutely a flat response is number 1. Everything else comes second in high fidelity.

What's next? Roll off above 10kHz and get even better numbers?

 

[laudio]

Do people really strap something on like that to their phone and listen?

 

[staticV3]

there should be a choice for a filter with the correct frequency response

Not possible.
The 9068AS chip only has three built in filters.

The Hybrid Fast filter that Amir measured has good attenuation at Nyquist (-74.5dB), but in turn it rolls off quite early ([email protected]).

The two other filters (Lin Phase Fast & Min Phase Slow) both have terrible attenuation at -10 and -13dB respectively, so using them will result in aliasing.

There is not one correct filter in the 9068AS. It's a matter of lesser evil.

 

[KeithPhantom]

The trade off here is getting rid of out of band noise

Are they using a noise-shaper? I would rather pushing as much off the noise of the audible band and then use current filters with increasing oversampling rates (going from 64x to 256x should help with the current non-ideal filters we use). That is assuming increasing complexity and processing power of the components inside.

 

[d2k5000]

Topping got back to me and said the filter choice is by design. They are willing to change it if we/I ask for it. Do we want to do it?

The trade off here is getting rid of out of band noise with current filter vs flatter frequency response but potentially more bleeding due to ultrasonic leakage.

I wanted to extend my thanks to Topping and Amir for being so responsive to the desires of the community.

I realize that it is probably not an issue that is audible to the majority of users, but I would feel better if the filter allowed for a flatter frequency response. I would vote for a filter with a flatter response.

Amir, do you know if this would come as a firm wear update, or would I have to wait until the first batch got sold to get one with the potential filter change? I see that they are already available on Apos.

 

[KeithPhantom]

View attachment 224624 View attachment 224625

Actually, not horrible. It won’t be that hard to equalize.

 

[staticV3]

Actually, not horrible. It won’t be that hard to equalize.

True, but that's the factory EQed response that Sennheiser have settled on, which deserves criticism imo.
Sennheiser could've made the M4 hit OE2018 precisely, but chose not to.

 

[Thor9981]

Total noob question... when Mr. Amir talks about applying filters, does he just mean applying a preset EQ like many AVRs have or is this something specific to the measuring equipment?

 

[staticV3]

Total noob question... when Mr. Amir talks about applying filters, does he just mean applying a preset EQ like many AVRs have or is this something specific to the measuring equipment?

Neither. It's the oversampling/Nyquist/anti-aliasing/reconstruction filter that's integral to every modern Delta-Sigma DAC.
The DAC inside the G5 has three of these filters that manufacturers like Topping can choose from.

 

[MZKM]

Total noob question... when Mr. Amir talks about applying filters, does he just mean applying a preset EQ like many AVRs have or is this something specific to the measuring equipment?

DACs have something called a reconstruction filter. Many DAC chips have different ones for use, but most companies selling full fledged DACs pick 1 of the filters available, some let you have a choice and filter through them.

Example:

There usually is not a single choice that is overall the best, hence the different options. Topping in this product chose the one that reduced the upper treble response but has much lower noise above that.

But this is where companies like Chord have their claim to fame, their’s are the closest to perfect that I have seen.

Do note this is all just looking for measurement excellence. We are talking issues >18kHz, my father isn’t even 60 yet but he can’t hear above 11kHz. I‘m 27 and can hear to 17kHz, maybe 18kHz if we loosen the requirements.

 

[Chrise36]

As suggested above It is time to integrate some eq options into dacs/amps

 

[Lambda]

to all the folks arguing about the filter.
Why not used 96khz or 192khz and apply what ever filter you like?

I don't know why this is not more common? your PC/player is million times more powerful then the DACs interns DSP. why not use it to get waht ever filter you like with way better fidelity?

 

[staticV3]

PC/player is million times more powerful then the DACs interns DSP. why not use it to get waht ever filter you like with way better fidelity?

The G5 is a portable DAC+Amp intended to be used with smartphones.
Afaik there's no equivalent to HQPlayer for Android or macOS, especially not one that works with streaming services like Apple music and Spotify, which are likely to be used with the G5.