Topping E70 Stereo DAC Review

[xaxxon]

Yes, LDAC has some audible limitations that everyone can hear if they have a revealing system, and is slightly worse sounding than AirPlay, because LDAC is a lossy transmission protocol. And in turn, 24 bit 96 kHz source material is slightly better sounding than Airplay on many recordings. Everyone who does their own recordings with highend gear can agree on that. ( I do ) .

When @amirm did his video on hearing hi-def music differences the lengths he had to go to to differentiate were pretty telling as to how much it matters.

Resorting to cranking up super high a fadeout at the end of a song to hear the stairstep changes means that the differences are a technicality only. Yes technically the difference can be heard but realistically you never will.

 

[MAB]

Id be very interested for you to do the test here and show the results of which bitrate of mp3 you can distinguish from lossless. You might be surprised. I know I was.

ABX Lossless vs Lame MP3 test list

A set of browser-based ABX tests to compare Lame MP3 encoded and lossless music samples

abx.digitalfeed.net

tonycollinet asked a specific question about ABX.

I have done many tests like this through the years. The music will sound less fun to listening to in long therm use If there is lossy codecs or transmissions anywhere.

When you say you "have done many tests like this", you mean a real and proper ABX? If so, please post your results, since they are much different than what most people find.
If the tests you did were the type that were about long-term listening fun, then you did a totally different type of test that is generally not acceptable as evidence. Unless you can describe how you controlled for all of the sources of noise in a long-term test that corelated to fun.

 

[Grooved]

demonstrate what?
the complexity of just a symphony orchestra chord in relation to an ap32 or a 1khz?
is this a joke?
I'm not trying to prove anything...
just rappel (and for myself)

so the 1k at sinad nice while just compressed file ..?
end for good
;-)

I knew you weren't. You were casting doubt on the validity of a test, by saying that it can't be representative of the whole. Or that there are special circumstances that make the so-called simple test invalid on an ensemble. Of course, what you postulate can't be proven, by design, and you know it. That's the joke. I am actually serious.

@MAB not sure if this is what @morillon wants to highlight, but I will give an example that surprised me a bit:
First, it's not exactly like testing a DAC, or an ADC with using each time AP, but testing DAC+ADC of an audio interface loopback

I tested 1kHz signal interface A and it got a better THD+N than interface B (checked in REW and Multitone)
From that, I supposed that testing both interfaces in Deltawave (with music file instead of a test tone) would lead to interface A still getting better result than interface B... but it was not the case, interface B provided a file closer to the original than what interface A provided

I know it might be linked to filters used for example, but still, which interface is really the best one between these two in real world use?

 

[Grooved]

Do you have a link to where that is claimed? About the roll off or distortion I mean. What I read suggests there is no roll off of frequencies in ldac, but a subdivision in max 16 audio bands. When using high res, bit depth is used at each band to achieve a level that is is transparent to human hearing. Cd quality through ldac should be the same after ldac, according to Sony.

For example 1source I found: https://www.androidauthority.com/sony-ldac-codec-790690/

It seems logic that CD quality should be transfer correctly via LDAC, because most 16/44.1 FLAC files have a lower bit rate than 990kbps.
So even if the source if WAV at 1411kbps, I suppose that LDAC acts a bit like a FLAC converter and send the stream at 990kbps, and you should get the same information in the end.
Now, as most 24bit files have a higher than 990kbps bit rate, it explains why you a little loss on these files

 

[MAB]

@MAB not sure if this is what @morillon wants to highlight, but I will give an example that surprised me a bit:
First, it's not exactly like testing a DAC, or an ADC with using each time AP, but testing DAC+ADC of an audio interface loopback

I tested 1kHz signal interface A and it got a better THD+N than interface B (checked in REW and Multitone)
From that, I supposed that testing both interfaces in Deltawave (with music file instead of a test tone) would lead to interface A still getting better result than interface B... but it was not the case, interface B provided a file closer to the original than what interface A provided

I know it might be linked to filters used for example, but still, which interface is really the best one between these two in real world use?

Sure, and I appreciate. And I tried to succinctly state my position.

 

[don'ttrustauthority]

Because it's a forum for objectivists, and objectivists have a bad habit of testing their beliefs with objective tests.
It's not about defending lossy protocols, it's about deeply understanding the limits and boundaries of our perceptive abilities and stop perpetrating beliefs based on hearsay and old stereotypes.

Until you can do double blind tests that show you can tell the difference between -90 db sinad and -140 db sinad, you are also perpetrating ...

For anyone with human hearing the cheaper $129 Schiit Modi+ doesn't measure past inaudibility, but it saves $$ if you don't need xlr.

 

[Bel Canto]

lulz...

The measurements tell you how it sounds.

Really? I've found that dacs that measure almost identically can actually sound quite different. Take the Toppin E50 and the Topping DX3 Pro+. They sound quite different yet measure almost exactly the same.

 

[mctron]

Every DAC review thread ends the same way lmao

 

[Talisman]

Until you can do double blind tests that show you can tell the difference between -90 db sinad and -140 db sinad, you are also perpetrating ...

For anyone with human hearing the cheaper $129 Schiit Modi+ doesn't measure past inaudibility, but it saves $$ if you don't need xlr.

You talk to the wrong person. I have always supported what you say. I have a topping e30 which is perfect for me, i bought a dx3pro+ just to have ldac included, but i don't hear any difference.
Ah in another system I bought a loxjie d40 xlr just because my power amps only accept xlr input. Otherwise the e30 topping would have been just fine.
I say it and I repeat it, the dac problem is solved, the only reason to upgrade the dac is to get more functionality or ergonomics.

 

[xaxxon]

Really? I've found that dacs that measure almost identically can actually sound quite different. Take the Toppin E50 and the Topping DX3 Pro+. They sound quite different yet measure almost exactly the same.

wheres your double blind study documented?

 

[Moderate Dionysianism]

I wonder why people get so exited on this forum about high number SINAD Dacs, and at the same time are defending lossy material and lossy transmission protocols ? It doesnt make sence.

Zero contradiction here and it makes perfect sense to me. You can evaluate, discuss and appreciate engineering excellence and at the same time be perfectly aware that it has zero effect in real life applications.

The brilliance of this forum is that you can interact with experts who show you how both observations are grounded in scientific research.

 

[HuubFranssen]

Because it's a forum for objectivists, and objectivists have a bad habit of testing their beliefs with objective tests.
It's not about defending lossy protocols, it's about deeply understanding the limits and boundaries of our perceptive abilities and stop perpetrating beliefs based on hearsay and old stereotypes.

No. This is a forum for followers of hearsay of people like you. People that use their own ears at least make their own decisions.

 

[beefkabob]

Really? I've found that dacs that measure almost identically can actually sound quite different. Take the Toppin E50 and the Topping DX3 Pro+. They sound quite different yet measure almost exactly the same.

“And there’s no Easter Bunny, either."

 

[Talisman]

No. This is a forum for followers of hearsay of people like you. People that use their own ears at least make their own decisions.

I honestly don't understand what you are talking about

 

[Gremlins]

Because it's a forum for objectivists, and objectivists have a bad habit of testing their beliefs with objective tests.
It's not about defending lossy protocols, it's about deeply understanding the limits and boundaries of our perceptive abilities and stop perpetrating beliefs based on hearsay and old stereotypes.

Right, but it's a "fight" that will never end
You canot stop hearsay and people's illusion or believes , despite having all arguments

Audiophiles want to believe, they are gear addicts, not music lovers.. so if they read a commercial stating that a white dac will sound clearer than a black dac, they will believe it and spread their believes on forums ...

Whats very funny in this hobby, its all these older guys with earlosses telling on forums thay can hear differences in dacs, cables, ...

 

[morillon]

I misplaced my Toslink cable and didn't want to hold up the review for that. Can add in the future. For now, when Coax is good, it usually means Toslink will be just as good.

;-)
I imagine you have already done this...
but out of curiosity...
little question about the apx555b in num...

by looping via cable, the apx555b in output-input spdif or toslink...
what does this give in aes17 measurement on 1khz (44k like your use or 48k/24b)..enob sinad of it ( apx )?

some measurements at the same time as that of the toslink of the toppping?
;-)

 

[eyecent]

 

[Sokel]

View attachment 244108View attachment 244109View attachment 244110View attachment 244111View attachment 244112View attachment 244113View attachment 244114

What do we see here?
Different channels?
(never used RightMark)

 

[Atanasi]

What do we see here?
Different channels?
(never used RightMark)

It looks like 16 bit vs 24 bit.

 

[Sokel]

It looks like 16 bit vs 24 bit.

You're maybe right,can't be two channels,30db difference is huge,let's wait.