Topping E70 Stereo DAC Review

[okok]

sorry, this is outdated after 5 hours.
they released the new d50pro with ak4499

 

[TNT]

With this kind of "near perfection" gear we are getting closer to the end of our hobby. The fun will be over soon.

At least as "we" are measuring and presenting things as of now. But maybe we are not looking deep enough? E.g. "Jitter is now nicely handled across both older S/PDIF and new USB interfaces:" - these charts struts at 1k

- what about 10Hz-1kHz? Quite an important range - no?
- as presented, freq resolution around the test tone is really poor.

Maybe there is something in it here? If we only test what we think matters, we will never discover anything new...

Either we are already long past perfection since long. Or, there is something to still to be gained. But say that we didn't measure or present the correct things - we have hidden some interesting parts all along....

//

 

[antcollinet]

At least as "we" are measuring and presenting things as of now. But maybe we are not looking deep enough? E.g. "Jitter is now nicely handled across both older S/PDIF and new USB interfaces:" - these charts struts at 1k

- what about 10Hz-1kHz? Quite an important range - no?
- as presented, freq resolution around the test tone is really poor.

Maybe there is something in it here? If we only test what we think matters, we will never discover anything new...

Either we are already long past perfection since long. Or, there is something to still to be gained. But say that we didn't measure or present the correct things - we have hidden some interesting parts all along....

//

1 - Jitter has nothing to do with USB. USB does not suffer from jitter artefacts.
2 - Impact of jitter is independent of signal frequency. It will have the same impact on 10Hz, 1kHz or 20kHz.

And what do you mean by frequency resolution about the test tone being poor?

 

[MAB]

getting tired of the new dac's and spec's. I love to listen to my music instead of reading charts and measurements........how 'bout you?.
It's nice to have a top of the charts dac. But in the end the only thing that counts is the end result , meaning : how does it sound?.

have a nice day

3 posts on ASR and you got worn out. You're not tired, you're trolling.

 

[Art of sound]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Topping E70 stereo USB DAC with Bluetooth. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $349.
View attachment 243627
I really like the new white multi-segment display with its large volume level indicator. Response is excellent as you rotate the encoder. A select button on the left turns on the unit and then selects the input in sequence. Or you can use the included remote control:
View attachment 243628
Nice to see 12 volt trigger being a standard feature on new Topping products, allowing you to turn on one unit and have it turn on the others like amplifiers automatically.

The output can be programmed to be nominal 4 volts (default) or 5 volts. I focused on testing the former.

Edit: forgot to mention that you have independent control over the outputs. You can have either RCA or XLR active or both.

I had a minor compatibility issue with USB input defaulting to 16 bits instead of 24 bit as far as Windows is concerned. I was able to easily override this using Topping ASIO driver. I wonder if this is something to do with my system or a new thing with this DAC. Operation was otherwise flawless.

EDIT: above is fixed with a firmware update: https://www.tpdz.net/newsinfo/778017.html

Topping E70 Measurements
Let's start with our usual balanced output measurement:
View attachment 243629

I expect superb performance from Topping and that is exactly what we have, landing the E70 near the very top of the best DACs ever tested:
View attachment 243630

Distortion is incredibly low at -145 dB or so. SINAD as a result is dominated by the noise of the DAC combined with my analyzer:
View attachment 243632

Even using RCA outs we get full audible transparency:

View attachment 243633

I have modified my THD+N vs output level to show broader range:
View attachment 243634
As noted though, as you reduce output, the analyzer noise becomes more dominant as well so above is not a true picture of the DAC's performance.

Multitone performance is superb as expected:
View attachment 243635

Likewise for IMD distortion:
View attachment 243636

Linearity is perfect of course:
View attachment 243637

Jitter is now nicely handled across both older S/PDIF and new USB interfaces:
View attachment 243638

As usual you have a menu of DAC reconstruction filters but I suggest staying with default filter 3:
View attachment 243639
View attachment 243640

The excellent attenuation of the filter translates into great wide-band distortion+noise measurement vs frequency:

View attachment 243641

Conclusions
The E70 is another meticulously engineered DAC from Topping at a reasonable price. The bright and large display is great to read from far, making the DAC just as suitable for general 2-channel system as well as desktop. Nice add-ons such as trigger support, auto on/off, etc. complete the picture of a DAC approaching and essentially achieving perfection.

It is my pleasure to add Topping E70 DAC to my recommended list.
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

We've reached peak topping long ago. Need to know if its better than E50 or DX-5 wrt timbral qualities for those seeking minor improvements in their midrange.

 

[Nango]

Instead of beating sinad again and again by half a point I wish they could transfer the knowhow into portable gear aka daps, dongles, etc.

 

[alekksander]

Care to point to one. I've just checked half a dozen, and they all rise at low frequency.

actually yes, they all have that rise, but in some cases it's more significant than others. i'm not happy to see 20db+ difference!
here are few that have that rise insignificant to the point i never noticed it reading reviews.

Make sure the one you point to is also at or lower than -120dB accross it's flat range.

i'm not granting wishes here. just unhappy to see last possible chance for this devices to make me interested in it. that is no low freq hump in imd reaching that 120db or so. going one step ahead: i already mentioned this is only to reach buyers satisfaction.

EDIT: Looking at the test results again I realized that the tones are not evenly spaced, but actually increasing in distance with frequency. That also makes the rise in IMD as you look at the low end of the graph more sensical, since IMD is both harmonics, sums and differences between tones. I was indeed wrong in my reasoning, but I'd still argue that the rise is more inherent to the test itself than the device being tested.

i'd guess You might be on it. wish some engineer gives us some insight about how it actually works.

 

[eddantes]

@JohnYang1997 OK we get it... SINAD wars are now over... We've reached the SINAD singularity in DACs. WooHoo...

But you know what we'd all love - a "DX # Pro +" with a parametric EQ facility built-in. Something where we can config in software and push to the device. No more messing about. Set your EQ for the phones you got and enjoy witout needing to be by your computer.

Better still - allow for multiple EQ presets, so one can use with multiple phones, or just listen to multiple profiles.

 

[usersky]

instead of the switch on the back?

My Sonys or Pioneers or Revoxes or... what not from 80s or 90s all have satisfying front panel phisical switches. Some of them almost musically click when pressed. I cannot for the life of me associate Topping kind of look and feel with that luxury feeling I get from those devices. High fidelity maybe but low user experience. Nevermind frying headphones or being unable to lock on optical input. Look at the chart, top 3 or 4 DACs are separated by fractions of db, way beyond audible. Time for something diferent? Or perhaps another iteration of a dumb DAC with 0.2db better SINAD and an external fire hazard of a cheap plastic power brick? Really what is the use of this in late 2022?

 

[ceausuc]

PreAmp ..... preamp my young padawan

Young? I wish Actually this is not a real preamp, it's just the digital attenuator of the Sabre chip.
From that graph I understand that this dac should be used no lower than something like -20db to actually use it at full potential.

I wish dacs would implement a way - a button to cut the output (let's say half, or even less) while keeping the same sinad (like a real preamp) to be used with for really powerful amps.
I wonder how difficult would be to implement this analog variable output.

 

[Pojjo73]

3 posts on ASR and you got worn out. You're not tired, you're trolling.

who are u to judge?.

i am fascinated by the replies of some of you in regard to my subjective opinion. You're all like ''i am the allmighty dac experienced boss around here''. Have a nice day

 

[VintageFlanker]

i am fascinated by the replies of some of you in regard to my subjective opinion

What opinion? You just asked (some very oriented) questions.

Have a nice day

You said that twice, already. Why not leaving for good, now?

 

[solderdude]

@amirm according to the spec E70 has selectable gain 2/4V and 2.5/5V - Have you got chance to measue SINAD with the latter setting?

My calculator says the SINAD with 2.5V or 5V will be 1.93dB higher. In reality probably a bit less. Lets say somewhere around 124.5
Not that it matters one bit because:
A: your amp will drastically reduce this number
B: you cannot hear the difference as it is already far below any audible levels.
C: Your room will have a much worse SINAD dwarfing that of the DAC

 

[VintageFlanker]

what's wrong with You?

My troll analyser is put into clipping.

 

[ceausuc]

My calculator says the SINAD with 2.5V or 5V will be 1.93dB higher. In reality probably a bit less. Lets say somewhere around 124.5
Not that it matters one bit because:
A: your amp will drastically reduce this number
B: you cannot hear the difference as it is already far below any audible levels.
C: Your room will have a much worse SINAD dwarfing that of the DAC

That's why I switched to headphones

 

[Thyrox]

Setup advise please. I would like to use the E70/L70 stack in a balanced desktop setup with balanced active monitors. What would be the proper way to also connect a subwoofer? I've been following Topping/SMSL/etc. products for years and don't ever remember a "Sub Out" port.

 

[mctron]

Setup advise please. I would like to use the E70/L70 stack in a balanced desktop setup with balanced active monitors. What would be the proper way to also connect a subwoofer? I've been following Topping/SMSL/etc. products for years and don't ever remember a "Sub Out" port.

Split the output before you get to active speakers or use speaker wire input

 

[Killingbeans]

i am fascinated by the replies of some of you in regard to my subjective opinion. You're all like ''i am the allmighty dac experienced boss around here''.

You started out with claiming that people in here only look at graphs and measurements, and that they never listen to music.

If that was meant as a joke, you'd have made a much better first impression if you had added a ''.

Then you demanded that people should tell you how the E70 colors the sound of its output, and the answer was that it probably won't do anything audible, since, judging by the measurement results, it's close enough to be the fabled "wire-with-gain" in any practical sense.

It's known that human hearing has limitations and that it's also highly susceptible to cognitive bias. If you learn a bit about those things, you don't have to be the "allmighty experienced boss" of anything in order to make a qualified guess on the sound of a DAC.

Have a nice day

Thank you. Same to you.

 

[Overseas]

I do not remember but please correct me.
Did John Yang ever said it himself that 'all Topping DAC' s measuring the same or reasonably similar will have the same audible effect on sound' ?!!?
Don't get me wrong, I am not contesting anything, just curious on this particular.

 

[JakeK]

Give me a dongle with >120 dB SINAD that can run off of an iOS device or Android tablet without external power and I will call game on this hobby. All of the >120dB SINAD champions require either AC power or will cause a power warning on iOS devices. Right now, I believe we top out at around 116 dB in dongles (in balanced mode on the Moondrop MoonRiver 2). THX Onyx and E1DA 9038D come in close at around 108 and 110 dB respectively.

EDIT: @IVX 's updated 9038D6K has "a typical SINAD 118-120db+." Only question is can it run off an iPhone without external power?

These signal to noise measurements are already way above what you need! If you consider the noise floor in a quiet room is 30db and your max home listening level should be no more than 100db so that's a range of 70db that's audible. Any equipment with signal to noise greater than 80db will have no noise that you can possibly hear over the ambient noise in a very quiet room.